Gay Marriage

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Simon9: Sorry Javier dude but your logic is faulty. One sock does NOT equal all your clothing which is the key flaw of your refutation. The statemet is still true.
 
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Javierdude22: You know how we call that in Holland? Ant-fucking

Sock=Clothing
Sock=Smelly
Clothing=smelly?

or

Mars=planet
Mars=red
Planet=red?
 

GottaBigOne

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[quote author=Javierdude24 link=board=meetgreet;num=1080412487;start=40#41 date=04/02/04 at 14:30:03]
Sock=Clothing
Sock=Smelly
Clothing=smelly?
[/quote]

here the equation you have is actually A=B, A=C, B=C. So you've gotten off of what we were saying. But I also think you have a faulty veiw of the word "equal." Equal does not mean "is" it means "equal" or of the same value or magnitude, so your application with socks is a misappropration of said equation. Also there is something untrue in your assertion that "Socks=Smelly" because not all socks do in fact equal smelly. Your second assertion is untrue which throws the whole equation out of whack from that point, not because reason is at fault. It was your application of reason that was at fault. I do not blame you, you do not have a lot of practice using reason.

One of the laws of logic state that a thing can not be itself and at the same time be not itself. Ex. "A" cannot be both "A" and "B" at the same time. But if the value or magnitude of "A" is equal to that of the value or magnitude of "B" and the value or magnitude of "B" is equal to that of "C", then it stands to reason that the value or magnitude of "A" is equal to the value or magnitude of "C."

To make your example make sense i will restate it thus:
Socks= Clothing
Clothing= Body covering
Socks= Body covering

Since the first two assertions are indeed true, the third one has to be also. If I said:
Dogs=Pets
Pets=Hovercrafts
Dogs=Hovercrafts
yes this would be untrue. Not because reason doesn't work, but because I misused it, horribly.

Know what you are talking about before you disbelieve it. Like I did with religion.

I think you want to keep saying that I don't know anything about religion so you don't have to deal with the fact that someone who would could see all the bullshit that you indeed do suspect might be there. You want to say I don't know what Im talking about so as to avoid having to deal with my arguments.

It is not my responsibility to pose arguments. It is yours. You are the on trying to convinve me of the existence of God, so start trying. I will indeed listen, and then refute. I have been doing it for years. if you have no arguments then disist from making unsubtantiated statements. it reeks of ignorance.
 

B_DoubleMeatWhopper

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[quote author=GottaBigOne link=board=meetgreet;num=1080412487;start=40#42 date=04/02/04 at 22:12:45]You are the on trying to convinve me of the existence of God, so start trying. I will indeed listen, and then refute. I have been doing it for years. if you have no arguments then disist from making unsubtantiated statements. it reeks of ignorance.[/quote]

If there were irrefutable proof of the existence of God, faith (which is one of the three theological) would be meaningless.

I believe that God exists. That is my opinion, my exercise of faith. To try to make others see things as I see them is not my task.
 

GottaBigOne

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[quote author=DoubleMeatWhopper link=board=meetgreet;num=1080412487;start=40#43 date=04/03/04 at 08:00:57]

If there were irrefutable proof of the existence of God, faith (which is one of the three theological) would be meaningless.
[/quote]

That's exactly what I'm trying to say. Faith is unreasonable, it is believeing in something when there is no evidence or if the evidence is contrary. With reason, there is very little room to be wrong (if you do it correctly) but with faith as you just admitted there is a very wide margin of error. I'm not saying its wrong to beleive something like that, I think its wrong to act on something like that. To waste you're entire life abstaining from this and praying for that, when there is a very good chance it might be all for nothing. Its called acting without information and is in every case considered very irresponsible.
Kinda like pre-emptive strikes.
 

B_DoubleMeatWhopper

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"If you're wrong, you 've wasted your life with all this praying."

"But if I'm right, better to 'waste' a life than to waste eternity.
"

And prayer works, even if for no other reason than it reinforces positive thinking. If you pray for healing, for example, you're more likely to get better simply because you expect to get better. Psychologists and MDs accept that.
 
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Inwood: I always find it interesting how the line of thought weaves on some threads.

No matter what, even if a statement is perfectly thought out with all it's logic in place and several proofs to back it up someone will invariable disagree. Sort of like how the cigarette companies still find ways to say smoking doesn't cause cancer.

I'm all for truth winning out. But truth is a difficult thing to nail down. Even in science what is considered true changes over time. For the longest time the atom was considered the smallest partical(sp?). Then we discovered electrons. And then nuons and quarks (or are those the same things). So it's not so much truth as it is a theory that is accepted as the basis for that moment.

Religion is sort of like that. The doctrine of infallibility (if I've got my history correct) came into being during the middle ages. It's handy to be able to say what I say is truth and not have anybody be able to object.

Faith is a seeking of truth. At least in the church I attended. You were taught not to just accept what someone else said as God's truth but to seek for yourself what God is about and how you fit in God's greater design. Of course, some people mis-use religion for all sorts of things but a lot do not. They just want to be the best person they can be.

But going back to science. I remember reading that some scientists see the hand of God in the equations they use to explore the meaning of life from a scientific point of view. Some scientists only see a random pattern that has nothing to do with any type of God.

How does all this relate to a poll on gay marriage? Well it relates like everything else. All of this comes together to influence how people see things in their life. And it just effects people different.

So in my opinion, whatever happens in the greater world about having marriage between same sex partners legal before the state, one way or another people who love each other will do what they want. And it might be made illegal and people may be jailed for performing marriages but if I want to get married to another man, well, the rest of you who don't like it can kiss off. I will marry him and we will consider ourselves to be married.

You can congratulate yourselves on jailing us or killing us or whatever it is you end up deciding you will do to a minority you don't like. But the only one who loses is you. Because you will be consumed by your hate and you will be known by your hate. And you will get upset about having your hate pointed out and deny it and say you are only upholding values. But it's still hate.

Have a nice day.
 

B_RoysToy

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"He who rises from his knees a better man/woman, his/ her prayer has been answered". Leslie D. Weatherhead. The "/" additions are mine, of course.

Luke
 
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blo1988: Uh........I hate to interrupt the discussion that must have migrated from some other page, but does anyone have an opinion on gay marriage???? It is something that effects alot of the folks that contribute to these pages.
(Besides, it is TEDIOUS when these discussions devolve into strings of destructive remarks coming from folks who otherwise seem to be thoughtful, reasonable people. Also, it is easier to get one's brain around gay marriage than these other slightly tricky issues. Seems to me that they have challenged brilliant philosophers for ages; it is doubtful that meaningful progress will be made here.)
 

B_DoubleMeatWhopper

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[quote author=blo1988 link=board=meetgreet;num=1080412487;start=40#48 date=04/04/04 at 17:57:30] does anyone have an opinion on gay marriage???? [/quote]

Though a marriage of two hearts and two minds are more important than a ceremony or a piece of paper confirming a marriage, that civil stamp of approval grants rights that should avail themselves to all couples regardless of whether they are of opposite sexes or the same sex. The sanction of same sex marriage by the government would be a positive step in the direction of widespread acceptance of all sexualities. Thank God I wasn't around before Stonewall!
 
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AUncut10in: This thread completely confirms how I feel about gay marriage. The only opposition to gay marriage is based on religious beliefs. In this country one of the fundamantal corner stones of our government is a separation of church and state. Personally I think the government should get completely out of marrying anyone if it is a religious ceremony. The government should do civil unions for both straight and gay couples. Churches can decide what they want to do by themselves. Personally, I am not ready to have churches starting to direct what people in this country can or can not do.
 
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norseman: Interesting that you should mention that approach, Auncut. I read in the local weekend newspapers that here in Massachusetts (AKA The State of Gay Marriage) the legislature will be considering a bill to get the Commonwealth out of the marriage business. If the measure passes, a couple (of whatever gender(s)) would enter into a Civil Union recognized by the State. They'd leave marriage up to the religious folks. On one hand, I think it's simply a game of semantics. On the other hand it would more clearly define the difference between the legal contract of the "union" and the religious rite of marriage.

Probably hasn't got a chance in hell of passing, but who knows ?

Norse
 
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roedhunt: Hello everyone. I see that this topic is getting off track.  :-/ Therefore, I started a topic of religion in etc etc. Come in and discuss.
 
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warmsunshine:
Um...You're being kind of dense.  I'm well aware of your right wing political persuasions from other conversations that I've responded to you about.  I knew WELL in advance of your reply that you were one of the 9 people who obviously have some sort of problem with gay people, abortions, democrats and other liberal issues in general and marriages between gay people in particular.

Well, if you are well aware of how stupid i am, and how you should run for president, then why did you between your lines say

'oh, we all know how that ignorant Tender voted'
lol
Strange...I said that you were dense (as in hard-headed / ignorant of facts) not that you were stupid.  There are plenty of people of average intelligence (which I'm sure you are) in the world, either who are dense and / or evil.  And the president thing?  Where in the hell did you come up with THAT one?



 ive never anywhere said i have a problem with democrats.  
Just with everything that they believe it, right?
i have a problem killing an unborn child. that makes me evil?
Okay, maybe you, yourself aren't "evil"...just your ideas.  After all, according to a familiar right-winger quote, "love the sinner, hate the sin"!

gay issues 'in particular' is a major discussion around here, i also talk about a thousand other things from day to day, but on THIS board, that is the topic often. I have every right to voice my opinion on it, as do you.  I beleive the bible says very clearly that it is wrong. If you don't--that is your responsibility, not mine.  

So why are you on here, commenting about your dislike of gay people then, since there are so many here on that are living examples of how wrong you are?  And there are NUMEROUS websites that people on here can point you to that describe other bible passages wherein acts which are commonplace today were considered hideous then and vice versa, so your reference of the "bible" as condemning gays and their behavior is ignorant at best and evil at worst.

i also have nothing against 'gay people'.  
i have family members that are gay.  
I never said i hated them, or anything of the sort.  
im not scared of them.  
i dont beleive that if i touch one while in line at walmart that i might catach 'it'.  
Can you point to anything else (other than the bible) or make any reasonable argument that gays should not have marriage rights between themselves then?  And it's pretty clear from your writings that you actually do hate them.  By the way... in your little passage there, you never said that you have friends who are gay.  That is hardly surprising.

If we assumed everyone everywhere approved of gay marriage, then it wouldnt be controversial would it? and this poll wouldnt have been here...    
Actually, everyone here (with the exception of you) thus far don't think that it SHOULD be a controversy.

maybe this poll was a set up to harass those that dont conform? ah, thats it!!  a republican, breeders, Christian, right radical TRAP!
No... but you haven't given any arguments to oppose the rights of gays to marry each other...

I should report this to Washington, cause chances are, you are smart enough to know where they are hiding the WMD!
Huh?
 
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ItalianStallion: I am very staight and I don't really care if gays are allowed to marry, it doesn't have any effect on me, or me and the girl that I am with. Marriage to me is about love, and lifetime commitment (it's funny I say this after having an anollment) but nonetheless to me a gay couple who is in love, and wants to have a lifetime commitment should be able to have that. I mean really who does it hurt anyway.
 

jonb

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Actually, I have just six words to anyone who says gay marriage would violate the sanctity of marriage: Who wants to marry a multimillionaire?