Gay men - a question?

[Dr Rock]

you also gotta be careful not to confuse education with intelligence - these days they are wholly unrelated to each other

 

[headbang8]

If one oversimplifies, one loses specificity, which can be crucial where subtle distinctions are involved.

I'm gonna call bullshit on that one, Alex.

 

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

For being a website dedicated to big penises, I'd say most of the people here are surprisingly articulate and intelligent. Even the thick-headed opinionated assholes that have the audacity not to agree with me.

Fact of the matter is, most people on this site are gay males, so I think the trend you're noticing probably stems from that. I'm sure there were probably some gay or bisexual guys who posted a few trollish things here in the past but it's kind of hard to remember any of them specifically as the trolls don't tend to last very long.

 

[dong20]

I'm gonna call bullshit on that one, Alex.

But what species of bull headbang? You have to be specific when you're talking bullshit.:tongue:

 

[fortiesfun]

If there are two concepts in our time with more disputed definitions than "intelligence" and "gay" it is pretty hard to say what they are. Numerous books are out there tearing apart the entire notion of measurability of "intelligence" and at least one very good one, The Mismeasurement of Desire by Edward Stein, takes exactly the same approach with "gayness."

If we want to have any kind of productive discussion we have to agree to some terms. Does intelligence mean IQ? Doesn't seem to be exactly what Lord Pendragon was getting at, but ok. And by "gay," do we mean identity, preference, orientation, or behavior.

If we could agree that we are looking for a correlation between IQ and "gay" sexual identity, there is slight evidence for correlation, pretty well explained by the previous poster.

In all other combinations of definitions, there is no measurable correlation.

 

[headbang8]

But what species of bull headbang? You have to be specific when you're talking bullshit.:tongue:

In my lifetime, I've had a lot more trouble with people who overcomplicate than with people who oversimplify.

 

[Matthew]

i am both. :smile:

Gay trolls and meatheads REPRESENT!

 

[D_alex8]

I'm gonna call bullshit on that one, Alex.

Do you really think so? Is a "dumbed-down" version of a debate à la Fox News really more worthy than a possibly more complex and detailed rendering that might send some people to the dictionary once or twice, but which successfully communicates the nuances of certain salient issues in ways that the former can never hope to?

Of course, it is necessary to remain clear, concise, and as free from obfuscation as possible, but that doesn't mean one should shy away from specific terminology that adds a deeper level of meaning, insight or precision to what is being said imho. If we all ran around completely satisfied with a basic 1000 word vocabulary, then none of us would ever be stretched mentally, and every issue in the world would appear so simplistic that it could be unproblematically filed away in pigeonholes, never needing to be discussed or contemplated again.

 

[Lordpendragon]

Alex's English is better than your average Oxbridge or Ivy league grad, but I think there is a slight german/english difference here. In German you can build long complex words from combining other words which we do do in English but tend not to. German can therefore be very precise whilst we get our pants in a twist over semantics. If you wish to study certain subjects to the highest level, you need to learn German. For example you won't get close to Aristotle in modern Greek, you are better advised to read the German critiques.

Yes - I don't think that IQ is the be all and end all.

No - I didn't realise there were so many categories of being gay. Now I am wondering what sorts of heterosexual I might be. Still I am here enjoying the discussion with lots of gayer guys than me.

 

[2265]

Some research and studies were made and from what I've read, homosexual men's brain is slightly larger than their heterosexual counterparts. This could very well explain your observation. Interesting topic though.:smile:

The physical size of the brain has nothing to do with intelligence.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

The physical size of the brain has nothing to do with intelligence.

This is an exaggeration. There is some correlation. That said, some brilliant people have small brains and vice versa.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

And by "gay," do we mean identity, preference, orientation, or behavior.

Can you break out these four words for me, fortiesfun?
Especially the difference between 'preference' and 'orientation.'
I'm not quite clear ... and there is perhaps therein a piece of proof for this thread.:biggrin1:

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

I'm gonna call bullshit on that one, Alex.

This can't work, headbang, because Alex didn't say, "if one simplifies, one loses specificity," he said, "if one oversimplifies, one ..."

And he would define oversimplification as something that does indeed leave essentials out.

Plain simplification would be a whole 'nuther ballgame.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

Especially the difference between 'preference' and 'orientation.'

I read this years ago and it has always seemed a reasonable discussion of preference and orientation.

http://www.jackinworld.com/library/articles/strfant.html

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

I read this years ago and it has always seemed a reasonable discussion of preference and orientation.
http://www.jackinworld.com/library/articles/strfant.html

Thanks, dxjnorto. And since the paragraph on preference/orientation seems good, I think I'll just post it here:

Preference vs. orientation. To better explain our own personal feelings, we should distinguish between "sexual preference" and "sexual orientation." Sexual preference considers desired sexual actions with a partner, while sexual orientation encompasses all the thoughts, feelings, fantasies, and emotions that cause us to become aroused. Although the population is about 90% exclusively heterosexual in their preference, on the spectrum of orientation most of these people fall somewhere other than entirely heterosexual. Therefore, many of us are bisexual in orientation but not in preference. To complicate matters, according to several findings (including JackinWorld Surveys) close to half of all adult males have had some kind of sexual experience with another male at some point in their life — yet most remain heterosexual in their overall lifetime preference.

 

[GoneA]

I can't help but notice that the gay guys here tend to be articulate and intelligent. Knowing virtually nothing as I do about "the gay world", I am curious if most gay men are amongst our more intelligent. Where are the gay trolls or meatheads? Isn't being gay a completely random spread across the male population? and therefore one might expect to see a similar cross section in attributes.

*Lordpendragon, I really like your topic and, given the recent course of the board, more like this are needed, imho.

I think the snag in your stream of thoughts is in your use of the term "the gay world". That world, for the most part, seldom differs from the straight world and should be thought of as such. This way, we avoid very dangerous generalizations that our minds, when taking the high road, can so easily make.

Saying the gay world (although, to the naked eye, seems innocuous enough and can be thought of as a microcosm of lifestyles and sexuality) creates from the outset a dichotomous relationship between yourself and all that you see: us versus them, if you will. Thus, I think it makes you more susceptible to stereotypes [i.e. gay men are neater than straight men, gay me are more intelligent, straight men are nondescript whereas gay more are colorful and artistic ... and so on and so forth] and, now that your senses have been heightened, when a few gay people do fall in line with said stereotypes it becomes [more] salient, and worse yet, a confirmation.

Nevertheless, to answer the question, no, I don't think gay people are more intelligent than straight people or vice versa. It also seems that the question is geared more towards "gay men" as opposed to the whole gay population. Do you feel the same way about lesbians? My answer to that would be no, too.

 

[B_Stronzo]

*Lordpendragon, I really like your topic and, given the recent course of the board, more like this are needed, imho.

Absolutely GoneA.

Nevertheless, to answer the question, no, I don't think gay people are more intelligent than straight people or vice versa.

Given the tone and antics of the keepers at the gates of the asylum, Lordpendragon, I'd say that quite the reverse of your premise is true.

Gay men are less intelligent by-in-large. But they sure are gay...

 

[Mem]

We do have one Dumb Gay. He is is Alabama, and we do NOT let him near a computer.

 

[Mem]

LPSG certainly has its fair share of wannabe intellectuals. Despite the overuse of "big words" their posts never contain any original or thought-provoking ideas; they're just an exercise in mental masturbation. Anyone with a university-level reading comprehension knows that being succinct and cogent is much more important than breaking out the thesaurus whenever possible.

Amen, and many of them act like Bitchy Queens...(you know who you are.)

 

[majormadness]

I can't help but notice that the gay guys here tend to be articulate and intelligent. Knowing virtually nothing as I do about "the gay world", I am curious if most gay men are amongst our more intelligent. Where are the gay trolls or meatheads? Isn't being gay a completely random spread across the male population? and therefore one might expect to see a similar cross section in attributes.

Are you joking? I dare you to find a single god-damn book in all of WeHo.

But anyways, there does seem to be a disproportionate amount of great gay thinkers, considering that we only make up about 3-4% of the population. I have a theory about this. I think that for any person able understand their homosexuality has a nature of asking questions, observing, and handling big thoughts. That is exemplified by their ability to defy many elements and discover their true nature. Such question-asking, observation, and big-thought-management also happens to be the cornerstone of science and academic study, as well as comedy (Seinfeld got a garage of Porches out of observations).

This quality is also present in any people that face adversity, thus making drunkard, closeted man's-men (i.e. - Ernest Hemingway), black women that were sexualy abused when younger (i.e. - Maya Angelou), or just plain honkeys that were beat up by their moms all their lives (i.e. - Dave Pelzer) into literary geniuses and the like. Adversity spawns creativity and management skills, which are also keystones of science, academics, and comedy.

So, in my half-asleep rant, I hope I gave you an answer...