Gay Nazis

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by MisterMark, Jun 27, 2005.

  1. MisterMark

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    I often see profiles on dating or "hookup" sites that have "88" or "14/88" in the description. I know that these numbers are symbolic of white supremacy beliefs or Neo-Naziism. There are a number of gay guys who are into these things, and I've never understood it. Is it just that they're excited by the militant scene but ignoring the part of Hitler's Nazi Germany that exterminated gay guys?

    I know I should ask one of them myself, but I haven't yet. Do any of you know anything about the gay Nazi scene?

    Strange question, I know... :eyes:
     
  2. absinthium

    absinthium New Member

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    My ex was/is into that sort of thing. He was tall, lanky, and pasty, and was called a Nazi constantly. He denied it when we were together, and even seemed offended by it, but the last time I spoke with him, he was starting to get into the whole scene. Kinda like how he wasn't a bit gay when we were dating, but afterward decided that wasn't the case. (But that's another story entirely...)
    I assume it's because he's demented. I also think it has to do with the aesthetic surrounding it... The part where you look at other lanky, aryan guys and wear Doc Martens.
    I think some gay men are not aware of the fact that many gays were exterminated alongside the Jews and gypsies... They don't exactly teach that in school these days. No one even breathes the word "gay" unless it's in a comical/derrogatory context (YES, I mean the teachers, too). I'm sure many of them, if confronted with that fact, would deny it. After all, there are many people that deny the holocaust even happened.

    Frankly, the whole Nazi thing has always baffled me... Look at the very leader of the party; a squat, dark haired, dark eyed man.
    Clearly people are just idiots. Always have been, always will be.
     
  3. steve319

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    Could there be some element of self-loathing involved? It doesn't make sense to me, really, but human behavior conjures lots of those types of situations.

    Anyone seen that movie.....Ryan Gosling maybe....jewish kid who becomes a neonazi?
     
  4. Dr Rock

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    I suspect the whole gay-nazi thing is a direct result of the social pressures gay kids are subjected to as they grow up. I went through an approximately neo-nazi phase when I was about 14. it appeals to people who feel socially or personally excluded, because it provides its own ready-made basis for group identification with its concepts of racial solidarity, nationhood and so on - concepts that are easily adapted to appeal to whatever insecurities you want to assuage. because the fascist/national-socialist philosophy is based on romantic fictions and the conscious rejection of rationality, it's easily accessible to anyone who isn't smart enough to know better (which is why it was such a success to begin with; cos people are fucking morons).
     
  5. madame_zora

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    Yeah, I had a friend who's younger brother had been into the SS thing and it was like Dr Rock said, it was mostly to be part of a social group. They attract kids from broken families and with poor self esteem and offer them a "family" and the chance to feel like they matter, very intoxicating stuff to outcasts. Anyone would like to believe that they are the chosen few and superior to others in every way, especially those who have been picked on and taunted, I can see why young gay boys might fit this mold.

    Like Julianna said, very little is being taught in school these days, I can easily understand how they might not know Hitler killed gays. On a side note, Julianna and I were at a Rammstein concert some years ago in Cincinnati, midwest's haven for neonazis, and it was hilarious beyond words to see the skinheads mouthing along to words to the songs. I guess they don't really speak German because most of the lyrics are about butt sex!

    The only resource we have in endless supply is human stupidity, I wish we could fuel cars with it.
     
  6. surferboy

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    I don't get ho you can like, be gay and claim to be a Nazi. Doesn't that kinda go against what they stand for?
     
  7. DC_DEEP

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    Well, Nix, yes it does. But we have countless examples of people who conveniently ignore big chunks of their chosen ideology which are inconvenient. Gay republicans, gay christians (catholics in particular) are two less extreme examples. These brainless wonders who join neonazi groups are clueless to the fact that this is where the pink triangle comes from. The jews wore yellow stars of david, the queers wore pink triangles. Either badge simply meant "marked for extermination."

    Good points made by Madame and Doc Rock; however, we should not discount the issue of the "outcasts" finding a group with whom they can identify, but more importantly, the group teaches them that it is OK to hate. The group provides them with a ready-made list of people whom they may hate without guilt, and also provides a specific focus (albeit a manufactured, not real, focus.)

    I will admit that there are men with shaved heads whom I find very attractive, but as soon as they present any hint, clue, or overt statement that they identify with skinhead/neo-nazi/supremist ideology, I want absolutely nothing to do with them.
     
  8. madame_zora

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    DC DEEP, shaved heads are very sexy one the right guy, but only if it's not a sign of a nazi fuck! We are in complete agreement on this, and so many things.

    People using the Bible to justify hatred of their fellow man is revolting to say the least. However, in the current climate, anyone suggesting that Jesus was for peace is labeled "anti-Christian" just as anyone demanding civil liberties and fairness in government is now "anit-american". This is so fucked, sometimes I just feel filthy being a member of the human race. We just never learn from the past, we go on making the same stupid mistakes and having sorrowful regret after the fact. Of course, we wait a hundred years or so to apologise if we ever get around to it, but no one but the institutionally insane now say it was a good idea to exterminate the Indians we found here. In another half a century or so we may actually feel bad about slavery, then eventually even our abhornet treatment of gays. I'm not dumb enough to wait for any recogition of the inequalities to women. We keep having the same problems, we fail to get much closer to a solution. What hope is there for any person not willing to just accept totalitarianism? I can only hope we'll be our own worst enemy and our system will fall apart of it's own volition so that someone else can have a chance to drive the boat. They couldn't do much worse than we have and they may just do better.
     
  9. major_7

    major_7 New Member

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    Perhaps what these guys are doing with their profiles is to make themselves appear "dark and dangerous". However, I also feel that it could be similar to the "straight-acting" which many guys are bashed for writing. When they put "88" or "straight acting" they are saying, at least IMO, that they don't consider themselves "gay" but they want gay sex.

    Perhaps if the "88" guys really knew some of the facts.

    Richard Plant, in his book The Pink Triangle, reported that official Gestapo records recorded that nearly 39,000 homosexual males were sentenced during the war years. Rudiger Lautman concluded in his book Gesellschaft und Homosexualitat, that at the time of Liberation, 60% of the homosexuals inmates were dead, 26% had been liberated, 13% discharged (many of whom had to allow themselves to be castrated first), and less that 1% escaped.

    When in the concentration camps, the Rosawinkle wearing inmates were most often isolated from the rest of the population in order to control them. Like other inmates, they were told of the “salvation through work” theory. However, work for the homosexual inmates was most often the most dangerous. Being assigned to the cement works at Sachenhausen, was in fact usually a death sentence.

    While assignments to the “special labor” details in the quarries were dreaded more than any other work detail, the most feared assignment was probably being “selected” for the medical experiments. The experiments usually resulted in death.

    As horrible as all that is, I have to give some major props to the gays and lesbians of the 1930’s and 1940’s. For one thing, lesbians were not included in the persecution of homosexuals. There were a very few isolated incidences of arrests for homosexuality, but more often, it would be a charge of being an anti-social (black armband).

    Additionally, Magnus Hirschfield, a physician and founder of the Institute for Sexual Research, collected data before the war and it indicated that there were around 1.2 million male homosexuals in Germany. If this data is accurate, then 23,000 deaths would constitute fewer than 2% of the homosexual population. Most of the men and women were able to evade the Nazis, one way or another.

    I just finally, after all these years, finished classes yesterday!! But here I am, practically starting a new term paper!! :eyes:


    So anyway, now that my public service message is through, I will provide a link to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

    http://www.ushmm.org/
     
  10. cypher13

    cypher13 New Member

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    Not long after 9/11 and the beginning of the subsequent miasma in which our nation currently finds itself immersed, I was invited to participate in a "debate" at a well-known "Christian" college, that shall remain unnamed to protect the guilty. I should have known better, but I went anyway.

    The "debate" turned into a "massacre" in that when I mentioned I was against using military intervention as retaliation. Everyone - to a person - in the audience started booing and hissing. Not being a Christian myself, perhaps I am unaware of something here: didn't Christ advocate love, peace and forgiveness? Didn't Mohandas Gandhi and Martin King both accomplish much through those means? But, no, not in this case...no effort to find out why this happened, just bomb the bastards. Then again, Christ did believe in eternal punishment for the silliest of offenses, such as not believing in the system. To this the Christian replies that it is not my place to know or understand God's logic. I can carry this on ad infinitum, but why bother? It all ultimately reduced to a simple question: what set of fairy tales do you choose to believe?

    I thought it was best for me to not remain for the "after debate coffee social." I discreetly left through the back door, people with ropes and torches following me, like at the end of every "Frankenstein" movie ever made. We have surely come a long way from The Sermon on the Mount to....this attitude....

    The point of this post: All belief systems are great when considered in broad generalities. Pick them apart, examine their particulars, and they all fall apart, or at least every one I have ever examined has. So, the idea that there are gay Nazis really shouldn't be all that surprising.
     
  11. SomeGuyOverThere

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    Interesting... a total contradiction in terms... but really most ideologies are.

    Most people turn to such things for personal empowerment, and ofcourse ignore large swades of the ideology so that it can suit them.
     
  12. taven

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    I dealt with the Holocaust every year, and I also included the destruction of homosexuals as part of the travesty. Also discussed Matthew Shepherd (I'm not sure of the spelling of his name) and any other sort of bigotry/intolerance as it came up in daily news or was pertinent to classroom discussions. I didn't care if we were discussing epic poetry, modern lit, or anything in between. I also never allowed gay, dyke, or any other words to be used as a pejorative in class. One of my strongest caveats for my students was to doubt anyone who thinks he/she has absolute knowledge of absolute truth. That kind of arrogance is extremely dangerous.
     
  13. major_7

    major_7 New Member

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    And one more thing to the nazigays...

    Don’t forget about the "The Night of the Long Knives", which, coincidently was occurring exactly 71 years ago this week.
     
  14. Dominik20

    Dominik20 Well-Known Member

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    Let me say something to this. You maybe know that I'm from Germany. So I hear a lot of those things. The so called neo-nazis here are mostly very uneducated people. It would not surprise me if they don't know what would have happend to most of them in the 30s and 40s here(stupid people where castrated or murdered). I think most of them would have been killed for different reasons in the Nazi Time.
    I think there a 100s of books out of this topic, how and why could that all have happened. It can't be explained in some simple sentences I think.
    Its not possible to discuss with those people..and its not even woth it.
    I would say..just throw them out of here or ignore them completly. As much as you take care of them, as much more they would feel themselves interesting.
     
  15. DC_DEEP

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    Hitler had blue eyes.

    Neo-Nazism is the biggest joke ever. You know it means nothing, as a concept, when Middle Easterners, Phillipinos, Indians (Both), Jews (!), Gays, and North Africans prescribe to it. :p
    [post=324742]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/b][/quote]
    HUH??? and Huh?? That went way over my head. Perhaps I'm missing something.
     
  16. Dr Rock

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    who lives in the east 'neath the willow tree? Sex
    grey, actually.

    :shrug: no idea what you're talking about. it means the same things it's always meant, obviously.
     
  17. Dr. Dilznick

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    Hitler had blue eyes.

    Neo-Nazism is the biggest joke ever. You know it means nothing, as a concept, when Middle Easterners, Phillipinos, Indians (Both), Jews (!), Gays, and North Africans prescribe to it. :p
    [/b][/quote]
    I've met people from Algeria who were phenotypically more "white" than Hitler was. Though I'm not sure if they were of "European Cristendom" descent. ;)
     
  18. absinthium

    absinthium New Member

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    But I can't imagine the fumes it would put off... You think car exhaust is bad NOW?!
     
  19. jonb

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    Jewish Nazis? That's weird.

    Yeah, the Neo-Nazi thing is a joke. I guess they use the Nazi image because Triumph of the Will was quite persuasive. At least compared to the shit the U.S. government tries to pass for propaganda. I mean, Desert Storm II: Return to Baghdad? Fox News? Black Hawk Down?
     
  20. absinthium

    absinthium New Member

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    I'm very glad to hear that! That, sadly was not my experience in school. I educated my teachers on Matthew Shepherd in an art project we did in which we explored the values of America. Everyone that saw it, in my opinion, was largely disinterested in the subject matter, and, in fact, seemed kind of annoyed that I brought it up.
    I'm pleased to know that somewhere people are being taught they way you teach. I have a feeling you have and will continue to shape a lot of lives and change a lot of people's minds. From the bottom of my heart, I thank you.
     
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