gay people! help me out!

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by Kassokilleri2ff, Apr 30, 2007.

  1. Kassokilleri2ff

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    I was arguing today with my friends over wether or not being gay is a choice. My friends all think its a choice, but i do not think it is a choice. So please, gay guys and gals, you are the ones who realy know, what is the truth?

    My reasons as to why i think its not a choice.

    1. I dont find men attractive. I could not just choose to start finding men attractive.

    2. studys have shown that when a man looks at an attractive female, "sparks" go off in his brain, and depending on how attractive that female is, the more "sparks" you get. But im sure for a gay male, the same would happen but when looking at another attractive male. How can you choose to control when these "sparks" go off.

    3. If a straight guy is paid 1000 bucks to make out with another guy, does that make him gay? I think not, i think what makes you truly gay, is a genuine attraction to members of the same sex. For example, in prison, there is a lot of homosexual activity, but are these men truly gay? Or are they just so sex depraved, that they are able to do gay things to satisfy thier basic needs for sex. I dont think they are actually gay, unless of course, they actually find other men sexually attractive.

    4. Some of my friends wont believe its not a choice because of christianity, gays supposedly go to hell, well im athiest so this doesent do anything to my view, but i wonder, if being gay was a choice, then why would sombody who grew up with this religion, knowing that gays supposedly go to hell, sombody who is a devout christian, wich i know many gay people are, would be a good christian in every way, except for the gay part. What would be the point of following the religion if you knew you were going to hell for choosing to be gay? If it was indeed a choice, and you truly believed you would be eternally damned, then why the fuck would you make that choice?

    I think i had some more parts of my argument but i cant remember and i realy have to go now, but those are some reasons why i think being gay is not a choice.

    This is nothing against gays, i have no problem with gay people. I dont mean to offend anybody im sorry if i somhow did, im kinda new to forums but from what ive seen if you dont like sombodys topic you call them a troll, so please dont call me a troll im not trying to offend anybody, i just realy want to know from your point of view, the actual gay people, who know the real deal.
     
  2. B_Hickboy

    B_Hickboy New Member

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    Who would choose to be vilified, castigated, discriminated against, beaten up, beaten on, passed over for promotions, or mocked, beaten and crucified and left to die in a field in Wyoming?

    I sure as shit wouldn't. It isn't a choice. I couldn't choose to be gay any more than I could choose to be Black.

    For the record, I'm a Christian. I believe that Christ came for gays and lesbians, too. Shame on anybody who singles out homosexuals for their "sins". Some of the most devout Christians I know, people who really follow Christ and try to live by His example, are queer as a three dollar bill. But the Kingdom is theirs, as much as it is anyone else's. People who believe otherwise are Christians only because that is what they call themselves. They sure are missing a key element of Christianity, which is inclusivity.

    Furthermore, I would not make out with a guy for 1000 dollars. Make it 10,000 and I'll suck the dick of any man on the planet. Another 5000 and I'll swallow. But I'm pretty sure I'll still prefer women afterward.

    Just a few of my own thoughts...

    Addendum: The kind of prison sex you're referring to is about dominance through violence and humiliation and has little or nothing to do with sexual preference.
     
  3. B_Think_Kink

    B_Think_Kink New Member

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    Not a choice... it's biological.
     
  4. bearman66

    bearman66 Member

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    I don't think many people would choose an orientation which has been reviled by many religions and cultures and yet still wish to be part of the same cultures and religions that marginalize their existence. So my answer is no it is not a choice for most. Some who have bisexual tendencies may be able to make the choice to persue the "straight" orientation and succeed at supressing the "gay" feelings and even some gays have led the "straight life" due to culture and religion. But I don't know anyone straight who has decided to become gay that wasn't gay or bisexual in the first place.

    It's certainly easier for someone gay or bisexual to "choose" to be "straight" than to be gay. These people are no less homosexual or bisexual on the inside, but many do have varying degrees of success with controlling the "temptation" to be homosexual.

    If homosexuality were a choice, there are certainly easier choices that could have been made with regards to lifestyle. Of course there have been and are cultures in which homosexuality was approved and even venerated. Hellenistic civilization viewed homosexuality as a beautiful form of love and many tribal cultures have venerated homosexuals, seeing the orientation as indication of being "chosen" or having powers and perceptions that "straight" people lack, often being the shaman or medicine man.

    Choosing to be "gay" also means choosing not to perpetuate your genes, unless one chooses surrogate parenthood, artificial fertilization, or old fashioned "straight" sex. It often means possibly facing old age alone("widowed" and no children or grandchildren and parents and siblings deceased) and no survivor benefits that a straight person who could legally marry has the rights to.

    I know many schoolmates who were straight but only married because the prospect of being alone as you age is very scary. Look beneath the hedonist lifestyle and youth-oriented American gay communities and there is a potential crisis for senior citizen homosexuals in years to come.
     
  5. sykray

    sykray Active Member

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    K, your thinking so far is OK. There is a whole load of scientific findings pointing to genetic and intra-uterine influences on sexual orientation.

    I guess that your friend and others may really mean that we all have a choice about whether we act on our sexual attractions or not. Like choosing not to have sex until married or not having affairs when married or to be celibate and chaste like monks and nuns.

    Having gay or straight or bisexual feelings and attractions is not a choice. What we do about them is. My opinion is that one should behave according to those feelings within a personal ethical framework.
     
  6. DM34

    DM34 New Member

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    If sexual orientation is a choice, then I would ask heterosexuals when and how they 'chose' to be straight. Did somebody recruit them?

    It's a preposterous assumption.

    I can accept that people choose their actions, and make minute-by-minute decisions about their own behavior. I can choose not to have another beer, or eat another Oreo cookie. It doesn't mean that I'm not inclined to want more.

    Re: the religion thing, it is a mistaken assumption that Christian = homophobe. Conservative evangelical Christians take strong views on a very small, select list of social issues, but the Gospel is not about marriage and sexuality. It is about the belief that Jesus is God's son, died on the cross for the redemption of humanity, rose from the dead.

    It is sad and cynical that certain evangelical Christians have found fundraising and recruitment success through fear-mongering about a small number of emotional issues.
     
  7. sizablenyc

    sizablenyc New Member

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    yes, but what does this have to do with cock size ????
     
  8. D_Harry_Crax

    D_Harry_Crax Account Disabled

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    Ask each of your friends about the day that he decided to be straight. If one decides to be gay, then one also makes a conscious decision to be straight! :)
     
  9. D_Harry_Crax

    D_Harry_Crax Account Disabled

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    Well, I don't know! But there's at least one study that says gay men have bigger cocks than straight men do.
     
  10. basketbulge

    basketbulge Member

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    Tell it brother! Oh, and does it have to be cash, or is a check ok? :redface:
     
  11. Big Dreamer

    Big Dreamer New Member

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    I think that some individuals might read too much into sexual anomalies from their past in defining their 'official' sexual preference. There's a big difference between going through an 'experimental phase' in your sexuality and being clearly defined as gay or straight. Since some people may have played around a little bit with same sex fun while they were finding their sexuality, they misinterpret this as making a 'choice' of which side of the imaginary fence they lie on. In fact, the only choice they made was probably just to have some daring and kinky fun, and to explore some unchartered waters in their sexuality. Sexual preference is a lot more complex than just a fling.

    Great post, Hickboy.
     
  12. B_denis11

    B_denis11 New Member

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    I am a lot older than most of the guys here. I have probably talked to 5,000 gay men, or more, in my lifetime. Many of these conversations, often sitting around Key West or in hottubs, centered on sexual orientation. I have never in my life ever talked to anyone who chose his sexuality -- gay or straight. The point about "when did straight people CHOOSE to be gay" is well taken. Additionally, I'm sick and tired of right-wing conservative groups talking about the decision to be gay when none of them has ever talked to a gay person. Dennis
     
  13. BigA

    BigA New Member

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    my guess is people who think sexuality is a choice have some gay in them -- maybe 50/50. they may chose not to act on it or repress it. and think others are like that and could as well
     
  14. HotBulge

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    The decision to engage in homosexual activity is a choice in the same way that celibacy is a lifestyle choice. A charitable Christian view will say, "love the sinner and not the sin" so as to separate a condemenation of homosexual behavior from the person. The underlying assumption is that homosexual activity is inherently vile. A less progressive and less charitable Christian uses notion of "choice" to attack the gay individual.

    BUT


    Having a homosexual orientation is not a choice. I don't think that it's biological to the extent of being genetic (in any clear-cut deterministic sense), but I do believe that being gay does make a biological imprint. I believe that there is a period of variability through adolescence, but that then that sexual variability becomes more "fixed" or re-inforced in late adolescence and beyond. It's like learning one's handed-ness.

    Separately, I have a strong suspicion that as some "straight" men age (late 30s, early 40s), they too become more open (secretly) to the idea of having gay sex. They lay down their defenses, fears of social stigma, and think gay sex as an expression of masculinity. That's how I account for the fact that we see enough married men in general society who go out for a little sexual experimentation.
     
  15. IntoxicatingToxin

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    I love you. :biggrin1: :tongue:
     
  16. CUBE

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    It is just there...like blue eye color...it is just a minority type gene...though not inferior or anything. That what is so crazy...all this religous bull and it is part of the human design and should be celebrated.
     
  17. reallyhot

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    Some people prefer to see things in black and white,
    and there are those of us who see in color...
    Guess what I'm saying is from what I understand there is a continuum
    or variety of folks on the planet that vary from 1% to 100% gay and straight...If we were all the same it would be a bit boring eh?
    I for one try to appreciate the variety. Not always easy but, hey
    we're all in this together, may as well make the best of it.
    Maybe that's why we've got rainbows...to remind us that there is
    always something we can appreciate about the other.
     
  18. auncut10in

    auncut10in Well-Known Member

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    I knew I was attracted to guys since I was 12 years old. I had no sexual interest in girls. I grew up in a very religious family, and I am very spiritual myself. The last thing I wanted to be was gay. So I tried to make being straight the choice. Had girlfriends in highschool and college because that was what was expected. I got married very young (barely 21) thinking that if I just had sex with a woman somehow these feelings and drive would go away or at least diminish. I had never had sex with a woman until our wedding night. I remember the first year I was married. I kept asking my wife if we could just have sex more often. She didn't understand why I needed sex every day. But it was me trying to get over these feelings. In reality, I had little interest in having sex with her. I just hoped I could change. We had children, and I tried my best to be a good father and a good husband. But I felt dishonest and could not trust anyone's love. I always felt that if they knew these feelings inside of me that their love for me would really not be there. I struggled for many years, and stayed in the marrriage because I felt like I owed it to my children to be there for them. When all but the last one was in college, I came out to my wife. You can imagine how difficult that was for her and for me. My family pretty much flipped out. I thought my dad would never talk to me again. Some of my brothers still don't talk to me. I am not allowed to attend most family functions. It has been about 5 years. Who would choose this? I just wanted to be straight. But that was not the hand that was delt me. And as difficult as this has been on everyone that I love, I am the happiest I have ever been my whole life. The dishonesty I felt is gone. And now when someone loves me, I feel that it is real because they know this deep dark secret that I held so long all by myself. As for my dad, he has had to come to terms with me being gay. It was either that or loose his son forever. I am very close to my kids. They have decided that I am still their dad, and I love them very much. My x wife and I are still close. She is a very kind and loving person. I regret the pain I put her through because society and religion tells a gay man he is evil and will go to hell. The question I used to ask my dad is if society was different from what it is, and the accepted thing to do was to be with a guy, could he somehow change who he is and not be attracted to women?

    A matter of choice? Not for this guy. But being gay has made me the person I am. And I don't regret that one bit. It is how God wants me.
     
  19. DefeatThisEnemy

    DefeatThisEnemy New Member

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  20. davidjh7

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    First, I want to thank the OP for having an open mind, and not just spouting off the usual crap. You have a brain, and use it! Second, all the evidence points to your sexuality as being just a part of who you are--that you don't get to choose it. I spent the first part of my life trying NOT to be gay, fighting it tooth and nail--I didn;t accept myself until I was about 31. I was suicidal over being gay when younger--the religion I grew up with villified homosexuality to the nth degree--still does. They accept now that it isn;t a choice, but as one leader said, even after they admitted it wasn;t a choice, that they were condemned for all eternity, and that it would have been better if they had never been born. They consider murder, if you pinned them on it, to be less of a sin than homosexuality. THis is the enviroment I was under when younger. I always wanted to be a father---it is the one regret I have of being gay. I know there are ways for gay men to have children, but when I was at the appropriate age for being a father, those choices resulted in hurting the child in some way--by living a lie, by the child being ostricized, something. And I love children too much to ever do that to them. I will be totally alone when I am old and feeble. I will live alone, and die alone. I will never feel really a part of society. No, being gay isn't a choice, because if it was, I would be married with a family, and be watching my kids going off to college by now. I would be able to hold the hand of my wife in public, and even kiss her almost anywhere in the world. I would be able to talk about my personal life at work without worrying that it was sickneing someone. I am gay, and I accept it. I have had some insight, and some experience, that I wouldn;t have had if I had been straight. But to me, the costs have been very high. My father was a homophobe, so he never knew before he died. My mother told me "Aids is God's punishment for homosexuals" when I tried coming out to her. Now, if any of you who feel it is still a choice, can tell me what part of my life has ANY benefit of choosing to be gay, I will kiss your furry ass.
     
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