B_Hickboy
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Cash is nice.Tell it brother! Oh, and does it have to be cash, or is a check ok? :redface:
Cash is nice.Tell it brother! Oh, and does it have to be cash, or is a check ok? :redface:
You beat me to it! Perhaps you could even add a bit of an angle, and argue that if homosexuality is a choice, then so is heterosexuality - and any of your friends who argue that it is a choice, could also choose to be homosexual. Ask one of them, point blank: are you saying you could choose to be attracted to the same gender, or do you just have that attraction without making a choice? Also, choosing one's actions has nothing to do with the issue. Using that argument, until one actually has sexual intercourse, there is no orientation. If a girl "chooses" to remain a virgin until she marries, does that mean that she is not "straight" until her husband sticks his cock in?If sexual orientation is a choice, then I would ask heterosexuals when and how they 'chose' to be straight. Did somebody recruit them?
It's a preposterous assumption.
I can accept that people choose their actions, and make minute-by-minute decisions about their own behavior. I can choose not to have another beer, or eat another Oreo cookie. It doesn't mean that I'm not inclined to want more..
You beat me to it, also.Ask each of your friends about the day that he decided to be straight. If one decides to be gay, then one also makes a conscious decision to be straight!![]()
I agree with your points, BD, but I think your choice of words tends to perpetuate the notion that it's a choice. For me, it isn't really a preference as much as it is a state of being. I've tried to come up with better terminology, but I can't. "Orientation" is the closest I can think of.I think that some individuals might read too much into sexual anomalies from their past in defining their 'official' sexual preference.
Your statement uses the term "design" which by definition suggests a 'designer' (which is always a codeword for God the Creator).It is just there...like blue eye color...it is just a minority type gene...though not inferior or anything. That what is so crazy...all this religous bull and it is part of the human design and should be celebrated.
You beat me to it! Perhaps you could even add a bit of an angle, and argue that if homosexuality is a choice, then so is heterosexuality - and any of your friends who argue that it is a choice, could also choose to be homosexual. Ask one of them, point blank: are you saying you could choose to be attracted to the same gender, or do you just have that attraction without making a choice? Also, choosing one's actions has nothing to do with the issue. Using that argument, until one actually has sexual intercourse, there is no orientation. If a girl "chooses" to remain a virgin until she marries, does that mean that she is not "straight" until her husband sticks his cock in?
You beat me to it, also.
I agree with your points, BD, but I think your choice of words tends to perpetuate the notion that it's a choice. For me, it isn't really a preference as much as it is a state of being. I've tried to come up with better terminology, but I can't. "Orientation" is the closest I can think of.
One additional point I'd like to add is that I personally like the 'negative' aspects of homosexuality. The fact that it is considered deviant, abnormal, subversive, dangerous and wierd is part of what attracts me to it.
Without those elements, I probably wouldn't have bothered to 'commit' to the lifestyle - I would have just stayed on the bus and gotten married to some girl instead.
I'm not saying homosexuality is purely a choice, nor is it something one is just born to be. It is a complex combination of the two. I've had sexual attractions to a wide variety of people, ages and genders over the years. I choose to act on only one set of those attractions. That is a choice.
For example, I'm definitely homosexual, but if I had to choose between some fat ugly hairy old man and cute young woman, I'd take the girl.
I'll do you for free :tongue::smile::flowers1:Tell it brother! Oh, and does it have to be cash, or is a check ok? :redface:
Same with me. My dad let me look at Playboys when I was little, and that was stimulating, but if I had a choice I'd look at men's muscle mags.Give me Men's Health magazine, and I would get rock hard.
Sexuality and orientation aren't the same thing? Maybe different connotations, but denotation is pretty much the same thing. I'd thing one's "sexual character" would be their "orientation" as well.I think some people are confusing sexuality with sexual orientation. They are two totally different things. Yes I can have sex with a woman if I choose to.
I think you're right for the most part on this one...but only instinctually.auncut10in said:We choose who we have sex with. I don't think we choose what gender totally sends us over the edge.
I don't think it's either genetic, nor a choice, nor a product of "nurture v. nature." I'm sorry, I don't quite understand. What else is there? Something is either part of your physical makeup (genetic) or it is part of your psychological makeup
It's just an intrinsic or innate thing... well that would suggest 'nature', genetic - part of the DNA, no?
like a personality, or tastes in food or particular scents. It is not a conditioned response. I would say personality is a combination of nature and nurture - as are taste in food and scents - I don't see how you can say that a person's personality, particularly of those three, is not molded by there surroundings as they grow from baby to child to adolescant to adult - of course it is. How could it not be?
ManlyBanisters, that may be true for you, but I have known I was gay even before I understood what it was. I must have been born gay, there really is no other explanation. Like I said, influences on the way we are start so very early that I can't rule out my sexuality being shaped from an age before I knew what was what. I totally believe you haven't ever felt any other way - I'm not saying everyone is born straight and some turn gay - we are born, some of us become straight, some gay.
But I don't think it's a genetic thing. Over millenia, a "gay" gene would not be able to support itself in any population. I received pretty much the same "nurture" as the rest of my siblings, but I am the only gay one.
As I mentioned, I think it is just an inborn trait, having nothing to do with genetics or learned behavior. Something more like your tastes in various foods. I have tried (really tried!) to learn to like both turnips and beets, but I still find both to be quite disgusting. All five of my siblings and both of my parents love(d) turnips. I love chocolate, but I know two people who can't stand it. My Mom loved shrimp, but didn't like lobster. My partner loves raw carrots, but won't touch cooked carrots. I understand about "learned aversions" to some foods - i. e., getting sick after eating something then never liking it again; but that's not what I'm talking about here. Just the innate like or dislike of some flavors or scents. It isn't genetic, it isn't learned behavior, it's just there. I think that's how sexual attractions work (at the basic level, of course you can force sexual behavior, but not the basic attraction). Does that make any sense at all?]<...>[/COLOR]
I'm confused though - as I say above - if it isn't from your physical makeup and it isn't learned/behavioural (a result of life experience) - what is it? If you are born a certain way then it must be part of your DNA, and yet you argue that it isn't.
(I agree with you on the gay gene idea - it doesn't work for me on that level and on others too - besides - if there were a gay gene how could one identical twin be gay and the other not? And yet it happens...)
I don't think it's like handedness; those have been proven to be genetically linked.I think that sexual orientation can be compared to right or left handedness. Some people are almost exclusively one or the other some are in betweeen or easily adaptable. As such, I see it as a deeply ingrained propensity, probably hardwired. I could probably learn how to write left-haded, although badly. I doubt I could learn how to draw, even though drawing is something I do reasonably well. It seems to me that most of us are "gifted' one way or the other.
I am a lot older than most of the guys here. I have probably talked to 5,000 gay men, or more, in my lifetime. Many of these conversations, often sitting around Key West or in hottubs, centered on sexual orientation. I have never in my life ever talked to anyone who chose his sexuality -- gay or straight. The point about "when did straight people CHOOSE to be gay" is well taken. Additionally, I'm sick and tired of right-wing conservative groups talking about the decision to be gay when none of them has ever talked to a gay person. Dennis