gay people! help me out!

DC_DEEP

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If sexual orientation is a choice, then I would ask heterosexuals when and how they 'chose' to be straight. Did somebody recruit them?

It's a preposterous assumption.

I can accept that people choose their actions, and make minute-by-minute decisions about their own behavior. I can choose not to have another beer, or eat another Oreo cookie. It doesn't mean that I'm not inclined to want more..
You beat me to it! Perhaps you could even add a bit of an angle, and argue that if homosexuality is a choice, then so is heterosexuality - and any of your friends who argue that it is a choice, could also choose to be homosexual. Ask one of them, point blank: are you saying you could choose to be attracted to the same gender, or do you just have that attraction without making a choice? Also, choosing one's actions has nothing to do with the issue. Using that argument, until one actually has sexual intercourse, there is no orientation. If a girl "chooses" to remain a virgin until she marries, does that mean that she is not "straight" until her husband sticks his cock in?

Ask each of your friends about the day that he decided to be straight. If one decides to be gay, then one also makes a conscious decision to be straight! :)
You beat me to it, also.

I think that some individuals might read too much into sexual anomalies from their past in defining their 'official' sexual preference.
I agree with your points, BD, but I think your choice of words tends to perpetuate the notion that it's a choice. For me, it isn't really a preference as much as it is a state of being. I've tried to come up with better terminology, but I can't. "Orientation" is the closest I can think of.
 

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Interesting topic. I don't think you can definitively argue that homosexuality is 'pure genetics' any more than you can argue that it is 'pure choice'. Both arguments fail to address the full range of behaviour that is normative for humans. The answer is likely somewhere in between to two extremes and more than likely is different with each individual.

But of course, this never satisfies the fanatics that have invested so much into one view or the other (usually for political or religious motives).

Indeed, I'm always amazed that so many people stake so much of themselves into championing one or the other of this false dichotomy. That the dichotomy is false should be obvious to any serious person who honestly examines their own mind. The false dichotomy serves political motives, not human science and not human happiness.

Sexual preference is just that - a preference, not a law, duty or an order. Preferences are usually quite flexible.

For example, I'm definitely homosexual, but if I had to choose between some fat ugly hairy old man and cute young woman, I'd take the girl.
 

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It is just there...like blue eye color...it is just a minority type gene...though not inferior or anything. That what is so crazy...all this religous bull and it is part of the human design and should be celebrated.
Your statement uses the term "design" which by definition suggests a 'designer' (which is always a codeword for God the Creator).
 

Big Dreamer

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You beat me to it! Perhaps you could even add a bit of an angle, and argue that if homosexuality is a choice, then so is heterosexuality - and any of your friends who argue that it is a choice, could also choose to be homosexual. Ask one of them, point blank: are you saying you could choose to be attracted to the same gender, or do you just have that attraction without making a choice? Also, choosing one's actions has nothing to do with the issue. Using that argument, until one actually has sexual intercourse, there is no orientation. If a girl "chooses" to remain a virgin until she marries, does that mean that she is not "straight" until her husband sticks his cock in?

You beat me to it, also.

I agree with your points, BD, but I think your choice of words tends to perpetuate the notion that it's a choice. For me, it isn't really a preference as much as it is a state of being. I've tried to come up with better terminology, but I can't. "Orientation" is the closest I can think of.

Your 'state of being' is probably closer than 'orientation' . I agree, the actual terminology makes it difficult to get the point across accurately. Any of the 'Human Thesaurus" types that roam these parts are welcome to help out in the word search.
 

Lucky_Luke

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One additional point I'd like to add is that I personally like the 'negative' aspects of homosexuality. The fact that it is considered deviant, abnormal, subversive, dangerous and wierd is part of what attracts me to it.

Without those elements, I probably wouldn't have bothered to 'commit' to the lifestyle - I would have just stayed on the bus and gotten married to some girl instead.

I'm not saying homosexuality is purely a choice, nor is it something one is just born to be. It is a complex combination of the two. I've had sexual attractions to a wide variety of people, ages and genders over the years. I choose to act on only one set of those attractions. That is a choice.
 

ManlyBanisters

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One additional point I'd like to add is that I personally like the 'negative' aspects of homosexuality. The fact that it is considered deviant, abnormal, subversive, dangerous and wierd is part of what attracts me to it.

Without those elements, I probably wouldn't have bothered to 'commit' to the lifestyle - I would have just stayed on the bus and gotten married to some girl instead.

I'm not saying homosexuality is purely a choice, nor is it something one is just born to be. It is a complex combination of the two. I've had sexual attractions to a wide variety of people, ages and genders over the years. I choose to act on only one set of those attractions. That is a choice.

Brave post Luke... brave and honest. I think it is fantastic that you know that about yourself and can stand up and say that.

I have may certain lifestyle choices as well - mine invlove monogamy (to a man) and therefore a hetro lifestyle. And yes- I would say I chose to be straight. I spent a few years messing around with girls and guys and chose to do the nuclear family lifestyle thing - it was what I wanted.

I do disagree on the idea that sexuality is something you are born with. I don't believe there is a gay gene - that may be unpopular here but I'm typing this post now and I don't wish to lie. I think sexuality is an inconstant, morphing thing - and is 100% nurture 0% nature. I don't just mean homosexuality is 100% nuture, I mean ALL sexuality. The desire/need to procreate aside, the same can be said for hetrosexuality too. There is nothing in my genetic makeup that would make me like anal sex or bondage - but I do. Those are perferences based on physical sensation and certain psychological factors. I do not think people are born gay (or straight, or bi) - the influences on our sexuality happen from a very early stage and I know many men who say they were never attracted to women and I do not doubt a word of it.

It is the word 'choice' that may be the problem here - just because something is not genetic it does not mean it is a choice either. Do arachnaphobes choose to be afraid of spiders? (a negative example, but not meant to imply any negativity on to homosexuality) Would you say arachnaphobia is genetic? I wouldn't..
 

pablovian

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OK. Here goes. I would guess that all people on a sliding scale are bi. Some men may be 100% straight in their sexual activities, but still be able to find a good looking man with a great body attractive (not that he would or even want to act on it in any way. Same for a 100% gay man. He could see a pretty and nice bodies woman and find her attractive without really wanting to act on it in any way. And then through the Straight 100% to Gay 100% is everyone else in between.

Technically, I would call myself Gay. I find men very attractive and have on a few occasions induldged in my attractions physically. I know when women are pretty and some situations in straight porn and the few straight sexual encounters I've had I enjoyed greatly. Having said that - my ultimate CHOICE for my life is to be straight. The 'wired' attraction in my brain in for men. But the CHOICE I want for me is to be married with kids. I want a straight life. To me that is the only choice about being gay or not. Your attraction is your attraction - it's hard wired in your brain. I don't beleive it's a choice. BUT, I do belevie sexuality is a condition developed through what is experienced from infancy; I do not beleive a person is born straight or gay.

Anyways - that's my two cents - take it or leave it!!!
 

DC_DEEP

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I don't think it's either genetic, nor a choice, nor a product of "nurture v. nature." It's just an intrinsic or innate thing... like a personality, or tastes in food or particular scents. It is not a conditioned response.

ManlyBanisters, that may be true for you, but I have known I was gay even before I understood what it was. I must have been born gay, there really is no other explanation. But I don't think it's a genetic thing. Over millenia, a "gay" gene would not be able to support itself in any population. I received pretty much the same "nurture" as the rest of my siblings, but I am the only gay one.
 

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For argument sake, I'll bite.

Ehh...you can't choose what you're initially attracted to. If you're initially attracted to men exclusively, then you're gay. If you have an initial attraction to women, then you're not. While you can choose who you have sex with, you do not choose what your body is initially turned on by.

...But your body is like a pet. As you can train your pet to do certain things, you can train your body to do certain things. To metabolize food at a certain rate. To be able to lift a certain amount of weight. And yes, you can train your body to function sexually with whatever you want to. Which is why you can have men who are gay, but they grow up and have wives and children. Or you can have men, who are only attracted to women, but for whatever compensation (sexual deprivation relief, money, feeling of dominance, etc.) can turn themselves on to function sexually with other men. These are behavioral characteristics.

(Which is why I cannot compare sexuality to that of being born of a race)

One can be taught various behaviors growing up and so you can have external factors that govern your sexual behaviors. Such as you (pablovian) wanting to have a wife and children, but you are really only attracted to men. Just to prevent later heartache, you might want to find a wife who REALLY loves you and you can let her know that.

I do believe that sexuality can be affected by things such as environment, culture, etc. But I also concede that it is also and initially governed by instilled "instincts" from birth as well. It's more along the lines of ADD, Autism, etc...because it can be affected and altered (not "cured") by training new behaviors.

Nothing wrong with it, though. All natural.

That being said, I'll run before I'm crucified...again.
 

LeatherCat

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For example, I'm definitely homosexual, but if I had to choose between some fat ugly hairy old man and cute young woman, I'd take the girl.

I'm afraid, in this circumstance, I'd probably go without. Not that I don't appreciate the "cute young women" out there but they have no attractive qualities for me.

Gonna tell you a bit of a story that happened to me many years ago about the last time I was with a girl. We were both in our final year of high school, had been going together for a couple of months, and out in my car. I drove to the local "lovers lane" and we started kissing. As the girl became more aroused, she wanted me to go further, unbuttoned her blouse and pants and invited me to put one hand between her legs and the other around her neck and on her breast. My initial reaction was and internal shudder and a mental "Eww, is this what all the guys are raving about?" The result was; she became much more excited while I became totally detumessed. Needless to say, the date was a disaster and ended our relationship.

Keep in mind that I was raised in a very "Christian" small town culture where you were either "normal" (I.E. totally hetro), or a "perverted child molester who should be castrated". At that time, there were no other choices. Having said that, I knew I found certain men and high school boys very attractive to me and would get instantly hard at the sight of a well sculpted male figure in some of the art books in the library. Michelangelo's David was always good for an afternoon of solo carnal pleasure.

To answer the question - G
od made me gay for his own reasons and I'm flouting the gift to deny it
. I didn't make any choice here, it just happens to be the way my brain is wired.

The hardest thing I've had to accomplish over the years was to get over my early conditioning that to be physically and emotionally attracted to the same sex is wrong. Having made the "choice" that I am in fact the man I am supposed to be and not "a perverted child molester who should be castrated", I'm finally very comfortable in my own skin. For me at least, the only choice was to admit and accept my attraction to men was a major part of who I am and be happpy.
 

auncut10in

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I think some people are confusing sexuality with sexual orientation. They are two totally different things. Yes I can have sex with a woman if I choose to. Since I was married for many years, that is pretty good proof. But it is that incredible feeling of excitement and extasy that I just can't have with a woman. Every since I was a little kid, I would always get that stirring in my soul over a shirtless man. I remember my friends looking at playboy. It did absolutely nothing for me. Give me Men's Health magazine, and I would get rock hard. Sure I can appreciate a beautiful woman. But I have no interest in having sex with her. We choose who we have sex with. I don't think we choose what gender totally sends us over the edge.
 

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I think some people are confusing sexuality with sexual orientation. They are two totally different things. Yes I can have sex with a woman if I choose to.
Sexuality and orientation aren't the same thing? Maybe different connotations, but denotation is pretty much the same thing. I'd thing one's "sexual character" would be their "orientation" as well.
auncut10in said:
We choose who we have sex with. I don't think we choose what gender totally sends us over the edge.
I think you're right for the most part on this one...but only instinctually.
 

ManlyBanisters

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I don't think it's either genetic, nor a choice, nor a product of "nurture v. nature." I'm sorry, I don't quite understand. What else is there? Something is either part of your physical makeup (genetic) or it is part of your psychological makeup
It's just an intrinsic or innate thing... well that would suggest 'nature', genetic - part of the DNA, no?
like a personality, or tastes in food or particular scents. It is not a conditioned response. I would say personality is a combination of nature and nurture - as are taste in food and scents - I don't see how you can say that a person's personality, particularly of those three, is not molded by there surroundings as they grow from baby to child to adolescant to adult - of course it is. How could it not be?

ManlyBanisters, that may be true for you, but I have known I was gay even before I understood what it was. I must have been born gay, there really is no other explanation. Like I said, influences on the way we are start so very early that I can't rule out my sexuality being shaped from an age before I knew what was what. I totally believe you haven't ever felt any other way - I'm not saying everyone is born straight and some turn gay - we are born, some of us become straight, some gay.

But I don't think it's a genetic thing. Over millenia, a "gay" gene would not be able to support itself in any population. I received pretty much the same "nurture" as the rest of my siblings, but I am the only gay one.

You received pretty much the same upbringing as your siblings - that's not the same thing as 'nurture' No one in the world has had the same nurture as you cos no one else has lived your life. [Nurture is just the coverall for experience, outside influence, societal influence, peer pressure, in short everything that happens to us. They just say 'nurture' because nature vs nurture sounds snappy - 'innate vs behavioural' is an older, and prehaps more accurate, expression]
I'm confused though - as I say above - if it isn't from your physical makeup and it isn't learned/behavioural (a result of life experience) - what is it? If you are born a certain way then it must be part of your DNA, and yet you argue that it isn't.

(I agree with you on the gay gene idea - it doesn't work for me on that level and on others too - besides - if there were a gay gene how could one identical twin be gay and the other not? And yet it happens...)
 

Dave NoCal

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I think that sexual orientation can be compared to right or left handedness. Some people are almost exclusively one or the other some are in betweeen or easily adaptable. As such, I see it as a deeply ingrained propensity, probably hardwired. I could probably learn how to write left-haded, although badly. I doubt I could learn how to draw, even though drawing is something I do reasonably well. It seems to me that most of us are "gifted' one way or the other.
 

DC_DEEP

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I'm confused though - as I say above - if it isn't from your physical makeup and it isn't learned/behavioural (a result of life experience) - what is it? If you are born a certain way then it must be part of your DNA, and yet you argue that it isn't.

(I agree with you on the gay gene idea - it doesn't work for me on that level and on others too - besides - if there were a gay gene how could one identical twin be gay and the other not? And yet it happens...)
As I mentioned, I think it is just an inborn trait, having nothing to do with genetics or learned behavior. Something more like your tastes in various foods. I have tried (really tried!) to learn to like both turnips and beets, but I still find both to be quite disgusting. All five of my siblings and both of my parents love(d) turnips. I love chocolate, but I know two people who can't stand it. My Mom loved shrimp, but didn't like lobster. My partner loves raw carrots, but won't touch cooked carrots. I understand about "learned aversions" to some foods - i. e., getting sick after eating something then never liking it again; but that's not what I'm talking about here. Just the innate like or dislike of some flavors or scents. It isn't genetic, it isn't learned behavior, it's just there. I think that's how sexual attractions work (at the basic level, of course you can force sexual behavior, but not the basic attraction). Does that make any sense at all?
I think that sexual orientation can be compared to right or left handedness. Some people are almost exclusively one or the other some are in betweeen or easily adaptable. As such, I see it as a deeply ingrained propensity, probably hardwired. I could probably learn how to write left-haded, although badly. I doubt I could learn how to draw, even though drawing is something I do reasonably well. It seems to me that most of us are "gifted' one way or the other.
I don't think it's like handedness; those have been proven to be genetically linked.
 

weylun

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I am a lot older than most of the guys here. I have probably talked to 5,000 gay men, or more, in my lifetime. Many of these conversations, often sitting around Key West or in hottubs, centered on sexual orientation. I have never in my life ever talked to anyone who chose his sexuality -- gay or straight. The point about "when did straight people CHOOSE to be gay" is well taken. Additionally, I'm sick and tired of right-wing conservative groups talking about the decision to be gay when none of them has ever talked to a gay person. Dennis

Damn, is your cock REAL??? I saw your video clip once somewhere and ppl said it looks fake. lol If it's real, it's really HUGE. Glad you have some chubbiness in you. HOT!!!

PS: And yes, being gay is the same thing as being straight. It's all about following what feels right to you. I am only being called "gay" because the society calls me so. I share way more intimate moment with men than women. And I LOVE sucking a cock and getting fucked. This does not mean I do not enjoy fucking a pussy. I have, and it feels good. But I prefer making love with men, emotionally and physically.
 

Kassokilleri2ff

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WOW! lolz, thanks for your input everybody. Now i know from your point of view, and its plainly obvious to see the truth. And now i have all this extra information you guys all gave me. For some reason, im a fighter for the people somtimes. Like stupid people hating gays, now i have the power to dispell ignorance and open up peoples minds. I used to argue with racist people alot to, and i researched alot of stuff, and now i argue with any racist person they get angry because i prove to them that its pointless. I hate to see hatred for any reason other than to hate hate itself!

So thank you all very much, you are all very helpfull and i enjoyed reading about your life stories they were very interesting. See you guys later on lpsg!! cheya! kekekekeke ^^