Gay Perverts

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by marleyisalegend, May 9, 2008.

  1. marleyisalegend

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    First of all, being a gay man (and black and poor, a minority within a minority within a minority) I hold NO BIASES against ANY minority group. I love gay men, I love white men, I love asian women (as friends :wink:), everybody equally but as you know is my style, I'm not afraid to speak in vein of the in the necessary introspection REQUIRED for any group to progress. Every group (men, women, black, white, old young, etc...) has its fair share of wackos and weirdos but THIS SPECIFIC thread is focusing on one group: gay men.

    If you casually glance through the forum you'll find countless threads about behaviors such as getting straight guys drunk and "fooling around" with them (which may or may not be harmless, varies from case to case), "accidentally" touching men's genitilia on crowded buses, fondling/sucking other men's genitilia while they sleep (regardless of sexual orientation) and all kinds of behavior that I believe, if dont between a man and a woman, would warrant sexual abuse (because the participant is either taking advantage of someone in an inebriated state, or someone who is not aware or able to consent the act being done to them IE sleeping).

    Here's my question, why is it that certain behaviors that none can deny would be labeled abusive towards women, are okay when the "victim" is a man? How would you feel if your sister spent the night at a friend's house, and a guy in the house put his hands up her shirt while she slept and fondled her breast? How would you feel if your mother went to a cocktail party and in the morning your reading a post from someone at the party who got her drunk and had a romp in the bathroom. How would YOU feel if you're in public and some complete stranger decides that it's okay to "accidently" brush up against your genitilia?

    Maybe the general notion is one of "it's a man, men can't be victims", I don't know. What I do now is that after reading this site I'm going to be very conscious when I have children who spend the night at "friend's" houses, when I'm on a crowded bus, and might even need to install a night-vision camera when I'm sleeping. I feel like certain gay men are so focused on their own pleasures (I'll be honest there are sometimes few when family outcasts you, your country denies you civil rights, and you're told to "move to another seat you damn queer" on a city bus). The gay men I'm talking about (which don't represent all) are so focused on their own pleasure that since THEY enjoy the experience, it's justifiable, especially if the other person isn't aware.

    Once again, this isn't a witch-hunt, all gay men are NOT perverts, but in my homestate of North Carolina, there are almost 10,000 registered sex offenders so to ignore the perversion of humanity would be blind.

    Maybe what I'm asking is that, in reference to two men and sexual behavior, where do you draw the line? When does "experimentation" or "boys being boys" turn into sexual abuse?

    In my opinion, if an otherwise straight guy gets drunk and let's someone suck his dick, so be it. But me personally I would, in the back of my mind, wonder if he'd regret this in the morning, the same way heterosexual partners sometimes wake up the day after and go "geez, I went too far last night". As beautiful and wonderful as sex is, there are certainly cases that seem more predatory than loving, less attraction and more manipulative. Me personally, I think that if someone HAS to be drunk to enjoy a certain encounter, it's definitely worth contemplating if you really want to be involved (if a lessened state of inhibition is required to have sex with me, maybe you're not really attracted to me). This DOES go both ways. With so much stigma against homosexuality, I realize that some people "need" to be drunk to engage in this behavior because society and religious extremists paint the picture of this being an immoral, damnable act.

    Anyhow, I know this is long and, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter
    -Are there different guidelines for sexual abuse in context to man vs. woman and man vs. man (or woman vs. woman for that matter)
    -How acceptable and how damaging can it be to engage in sexual activity in a state of inebriation
    -Does "I'm not hurting anyboy" justify any sexual experience?

    CROTCH-CAM 'TRAINED' ON GUYS - New York Post

    Here's the article that put these heavy thoughts in my mind at 10 o'clock in the morning. About a man who was caught filming the crotches and "bulges" of other men in public, often or always unbeknownst to them.
    This case is NOT isolated, do google searches for "sleeping men, drunk straight guys, public groping, etc.." and you'll find that there are actual markets in porn based solely on fondling men (and women) in their sleep, hidden cameras that capture men and women's genetilia in public and in more private locations (locker rooms, bathrooms, etc..). Certainly many of this is staged but there are real-life candid vids of all of the examples disposable at the click of a mouse. Has the sexual revolution come at the expense of courtesy? Is it now okay to sexualize someone who is not at all aware of what's being done to them?

    PS-Again, everybody has perverts, I'm focusing on gay men in context of the article, and my belief that several threads on this forum contain stories and fantasies of man-on-man action that, if committed between man-and-woman would be considered sexual abuse.

    PLEASE only opinions, no personal attacks, no name-calling, let's hold a DISCUSSION not an argument.
     
  2. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Be aware there is no, "case." The man was violating no law and was released without charge because he was recording people who were already visible in general public.

    I understand this may be shocking in North Carolina, but you know women are free to walk around topless in New York and I don't think anybody really cares. In the grand scheme of everything that can happen in the city, this is a gnat on an elephant's ass.
     
  3. DC_DEEP

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    Well, I think you've captured several different topics in this one thread, but here goes:

    One of the reasons I have not participated in any of those "touching him while he's sleeping" threads is precisely what you said above: when you have sexual contact with any person, without that person's permission, that's somewhere between sexual assault and rape. I do not condone that, and I'm pretty outspoken about calling it sexual assault.

    Another issue is summed up in a thread entitled something like "my straight friend pretends to sleep while I suck his cock." In this case, it isn't sexual assault, but consensual sex under false pretenses, and I actually think that's worse than the sexual assault. If he has so much self-loathing that he can't admit he's bisexual, then he shouldn't have sex with men at all. It helps to perpetuate oppression of gay men and women.

    Likewise with the "I only did it because I was drunk" excuse. It's just that - an excuse, and a bad one, at that. It's like saying, "queers are disgusting, and I would never do that sober, only if I'm not in control of myself."

    If people would be more honest about sexuality, this wouldn't even be an issue. It's a lot like the women who say "no" when they really mean "yes," so that they appear to be "good girls," and then wonder why men are never really sure when "no" means "no," and when "no" means "yes."

    I'm not sure why "honest and unashamed" is such a difficulty for so many people.
     
  4. marleyisalegend

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    tell that to the guys who don't want their junk all over the web. does walking out in public means its okay to sexualize someone?? should i stay hidden in my home, wear a burka, or just accept that some pervery might be filming me on the way to work.
     
  5. marleyisalegend

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    well-said dc.
     
  6. cm70874

    cm70874 New Member

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    First, I have to address the 10,000 registered sex offender thing in NC. I realize you are pointing it out as fact, but with the subject of this thread, it seems you are labeling these offenders as gay men. Honeslty, I know about the sex offender registry also, and majority are HETEROSEXUAL men, who have abused young girls.

    My thing with the being touched while you are sleeping, if you can't control yourself when drinking or whatever the mind altering substances may be, then you are asking for something to happen. I am not saying that if you get drunk and pass out they you deserve to be assaulted, but everyone has to be their own watchdog.

    And sex while someone is drunk, I see no problem with it. I have been trashed, shit-faced, and high all at the same time and I have had many offers for sex, from gay and straight men. The point I am making here is that I have turned down quite a few of these men, even in an altered state. I truly believe that even while intoxicated, we still have control of what and who we do. I think that these guys who wake up the next day and regret what they did, are only using the alcohol as justification for having a little fun. From the way I was raised, I believe the feeling of regret is a cop-out, only used when someone is embarassed by what they did, oppose to being remorseful. My mom always told me, if you regret something you have done, then you were never meant to do it.
     
  7. Darpon

    Darpon New Member

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    Marley, thank you so much for this post.

    Honestly, a lot of those threads have scared me. I already made a couple of posts awhile back, about how I would be okay with sleeping in one bed with another guy, as there was nothing sexual to that. Now, seeing a lot of posts about how excited some guys are to touch their friends in their sleep has frightened me a little. I'm certainly not as comfortable with the idea of sharing a bed as I used to be.

    Then there are the NUMEROUS threads about cock spotting at the gym/locker room, and those have frightened me as well. When I go back to the States, I'm probably going to be extra nervous in any of those situations, and EXTREMELY uncomfortable.

    I know these people don't represent all gay men, and I think that most gay men are just as reasonable as anyone else, but it doesn't make me any less frightened and uncomfortable. I don't want men, in real life, getting that kind of pleasure from me. I'm straight, and I want nothing to do with any of that.

    As for the issue of "he's not a victim because he's a guy", well, I have to say that's true. If a guy does something to a straight guy, the straight guy might feel really violated and disgusted, and that'd probably be the end of it. If a straight guy were to do something to a girl, it would be considered sexual assault from the get-go.
     
  8. marleyisalegend

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    maybe i mispoke, but you definitely got the wrong idea. i wasn't trying to correlate the sex offenders with gay men, simply using the number as a fact in reference to how many perverted people are truly out there. i apologize if my wording left you feeling like i believe most perverts are gay men.
     
  9. marleyisalegend

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    well-said. i think that, being men, we're conditioned to be uber-macho, uber-masculine and the idea of identifying with female victims completely shatters that notion. the same way every woman doesn't want a guy staring at her boobs, every straight guy doesn't want somebody oogling over his package while he's working out. do i look sometimes?? hell yes, but i consciously try to keep my eyes above the neck because after reading threads like "i touched my best friend in his sleep" i've realized that men can be victimized too.
     
  10. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Uh yeah, it does. Once you're in public, people are free to look and imagine what they want to. Anything else is thought control. If you're so worried about being sexualized in public then yeah, wear a burqa. The fact is you will never be able to control what other people think of you and you will never be able to control your environment in public.

    People are sexual, they get sexual thoughts when they see someone attractive to them. This guy did what the old saying suggest, "Take a picture. It'll last longer." Perhaps if Americans weren't so quick to think of sex as prurient we wouldn't be so quick label people perverts or have nearly so many sex offenders.

    I do believe this country needs to take a serious look at itself because we're becoming a bunch of paranoiacs about sex. I wouldn't be shocked if we come to resemble the strict Muslim countries we're so quick to ridicule.
     
  11. DC_DEEP

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    Thank you for underscoring my points above. I've been pretty intoxicated before, but have never ever done anything when I was drunk, that I wouldn't do sober. If the booze is an excuse, the desire was already there.
     
  12. marleyisalegend

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    you're obviously ignoring the damage inflicted upon victims of sexual abuse. is oogling a guy in the gym gonna hurt him? no. is it okay to take a picture of his crotch and post it on the web when he doesn't know about it?? if that's okay then kindly let me know when your mother will be leaving for work. you must admit that, at a certain point, a line of morality is crossed. if sex were 100% free there'd be 45 year old men having sex with 12 year old girls who aren't yet capable of understanding the dynamics of a sexual relationship and will ultimately be left damaged and rejected when the man returns home to his wife. the fact that you justify it by "lack of control" is quite frightening. i'll never control murder so does that mean i should ignore murder too?? the problem is you're under the assumption that sex is some beautiful, wonderful thing that only happens between two consentual people. often times it is, many times it's not. there's a reason we have laws about sex, imagine the damage done if every person is given free reign to indulge in their sexual fantasies and fetishes.
     
  13. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Who has been sexually abused? It appears that a vast number of his subjects didn't even know he was taking pictures. I'm sure they don't feel traumatized for life.

    If you do not want people to look at your crotch in public then cover it.

    How are you equating the sexual abuse of a child to having some person taking pictures of clothed crotches?

    This man did not sexually abuse anyone and to equate what he did with child abuse is hysterical.
     
  14. dreamer20

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    marleyisalegend why can't you accept what jason_els has said? If you are going to streak in the public domain do not be surprised when your image appears on the internet.
     
  15. marleyisalegend

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    you obviously missed the point. the article was a SEGUE into abuse, the same way a kanye-west thread may lead to a conversation about rap in general. PS i don't buy the "pubilc=legal" thing. if you do, please tell me when your mother will be leaving for work, i need to update my gallery, me and my friends need some new j/o material.
     
  16. marleyisalegend

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    i'm not talking about streaking, i'm asking whats the difference between a guy sneaking shots up a girl's dress and a guy sneaking shots of a man's penis because his running shorts flew up for 2 seconds. when its 100+ degree whether will i still have to wear sweatpants when i jog??
     
  17. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Assuming for a moment that your jogging route is lined every day with people just waiting for your shorts to fly up and expose your penis, you are an adult, not a juvenile. While it is not illegal to photograph naked juveniles, it is illegal to do so for prurient purposes, which it could be well-argued, taking pictures up a 12 year old girl's skirt is. There is no such prohibition as regards adults.

    If your shorts fly up and expose your penis while you're running in public view, you're guilty of indecent exposure in many places. If someone photographs you doing so then you have no protections because you are responsible for keeping your genitals contained within garments when you are in public view.

    I suggest wearing a jock strap at the least. They're light and will prevent inadvertent floppery.
     
  18. marleyisalegend

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    okay don't let my bad example misconstrue my point. i guess this is a case of indivdual rights overlapping one another. you're certainly free to take a picture of a woman's boobs in public but, though that doesn't infringe on any specific right of hers, doesn't it atleast cause an issue with morality? IMO looking is a stretch because it can called human nature, but whats natural about taking a picture and posting on a website called candidpics or something of that nature?? do morals only come into play when there's a window in between the photographer and the subject. because the instant the woman steps into her home, the photographer is a peeping tom. how is something NOT acceptable inside a building, but completely acceptable outside of one??
     
  19. auncut10in

    auncut10in Well-Known Member

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    In your home you have an expectation of privacy. Out in public you should have no such expectations. Of all of the millions of people in America, you got one guy doing shameful but not illegal things. This is not a huge issue that needs some kind of recourse.

    That said, if a picture of me is taken in public is used on a web page in a harmful way, I do have the right to sue for damages because I am not a public figure. But damages have to be proven. I doubt if a court is interested in me whining because someone showed a picture of my bulge. BIG DEAL. How many people see my bulge on the street every day anyway?

    Marley, why do you even have issues with this stuff? And why do you think this is a gay issue? You should have figured out by now from reading the threads on this site that as many straight guys look at bulges and guys dicks in the locker room etc as gay guys. I find it pretty offensive to call this thread "gay perverts".
     
  20. B_Monster

    B_Monster New Member

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    This thread is extremely offensive but, par for the course


     
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