Gay Porn and Gay Racism

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by B_bxmuscle, Jul 17, 2011.

  1. B_bxmuscle

    B_bxmuscle New Member

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    Arabian Desert Camps at BoyFriendTV

    Sunday, July 17, 2011, 11:30 AM -- I’m here listening to “On the Media” on public radio talk about how William Cody/Buffalo Bill created the racist stereotypes and false narratives of Cowboys and Indians that dominated America’s self-image for decades via his Wild West Show that traveled the world for thirty years. There follows defenders and critics of the Buffalo Bill narratives from several perspectives.



    But I’m listening to this while looking at a gay-porn torrent site, and noticing how much of this stuff is so laced with its own deeply racist sensibility on every level when it comes to non-white people. The attached link is from just one example in which (supposedly) Arab gays have sex in native head-dress for effect. This kind of stuff is widespread.



    I recognized long ago that so-called “gay culture” is one of the most thorough-going racist aspects of contemporary life here in the U.S. and in other Western societies. But I’m not quite clear as to why there’s no systematic self-examination of this among self-identified “gays” or “gay activists” who are often very vocal about other forms of exploitation and exclusion, particularly their own. Can anyone enlightenment me about this? I’ve dated a couple white guys in the past and got no problem with so-called inter-racial intimacy, but do they have to be dominated by these racist fantasies??
     
  2. NCbear

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    Most of my life I've dated nonwhite people because the pressure to join other whites' casual racism was too strong.

    PM me for more details.

    NCbear (who wants to know more about your experiences as well, bxmuscle)
     
  3. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    Indeed!

    I have been well aware of it since a teen ... hence, my absolute unwillingness to be a cheerleader for the cause

    I recently had some rare free time, enough to sit in front of a televison set for a couple of hours, tuned in to Logo and watched the 2006 gay themed film, "Quinceañera"
    and was so taken by it, I decided to learn more of it, and read some of the reviews. Consistently, viewers remarked how "true to life" was the depiction of the gay landlords as "predatory", and how so exceptional was the depiction, given the tendency to consistently portray gays as inherently wiser and heroic, which, of course, is so very far from what one often encounters

    More typical, I would argue, would be the arrogant screaming fairy types, such as Ron Schiller, the NPR lib ideologue
    ‪NPR Muslim Brotherhood Investigation Part I‬‏ - YouTube
     
    #3 B_Nick4444, Jul 17, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
  4. B_bxmuscle

    B_bxmuscle New Member

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    I'm interested in hearing from others on these and other issues. I've believed for a long while that a powerful and privileged establishment of self-identified "gays" have prevented critical thinking around issues around same-sex desire, creating a "cultural hegemony" of the sort Gramsci analyzed decades ago within self-identified "gay" circles, that includes a great deal of racism, class discrimination and other oppressive characteristics. I'm wondering if a forum critiquing this culture can be organized here or elsewhere.
     
  5. TomCat84

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    People like what they like. I'm not understanding what your point is, bxmuscle. I mainly like Hispanics and Mexicans- basically Latino guys with brown skin. I think it's hot. Do I have to start apologizing for it?
     
  6. earllogjam

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    Do you feel that the racism in the gay "culture" is just a reflection of the broader culture's hidden racism or do you feel that it is more pervasive?

    I think that sometimes within marginalized groups like gay men, they tend to eschew some members of their own group to gain legitimacy and acceptance of the dominate white male culture, whether intentional or not.

    The gay "culture" is intrinsically discriminatory because it's based on sexual attractions. It is there solely to perpetuate the freedom to have sex with people you find attractive. And sexual attraction is perhaps the most discriminating human quality.

    In a place where white/white couples are the norm and mixed race couples are the rare exception, it is not surprising that most white guys find ONLY other white guys attractive and pay little if any attention or have no interest in men of color, whether intentional or not, hence the hidden racism and feelings of exclusion and inclusion within gay ghetto culture.

    I'm not sure how it differs that much from the dominant hetrosexual culture but it probably is intensified if you are a discriminated minority within an already discriminated population. Double whammy.
     
    #6 earllogjam, Jul 18, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2011
  7. B_bxmuscle

    B_bxmuscle New Member

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    Perfectly stated!! Of course people like what they like. As if they like what they don't like? What's the point of pointing out the obvious?

    My point is that the ideology behind this quote is precisely what I have in mind. Behind the assertion of individuality, personal tastes and a claim to "freedom" of self-expression implicit in this statement is a refusal and rejection of any critical examination of what exactly constitutes/grounds/creates likes, preferences, tastes or whatever you want to call them. If my preferences mean that other people can be portrayed in ways that objectify them, exoticism them, create false depictions of them in a faux-cultural context -- like young Arab men performing sex-acts in "native" gear --, is that unproblematic because that's just what turns me on?

    It's pretty clear that that type of representation is a product of, in this specific case, past colonial conquest and rule and current states of second-class citizenship of Arab-Muslims in European countries. But my experience is that "gay culture" and some self-identified "gay" men (along with most supposedly liberal thinking) will steadfastly resist any considerations that might raise questions of exactly why people like what they like and the social contexts in which these likes arise and are expressed. That is the point I'm trying to get across.

    Minstrel Shows were once one of the popular forms of entertainment in America. Show they not have been critiqued because obviously a great many people liked them? After all, people like what they like, right?
     

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    #7 B_bxmuscle, Jul 19, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
  8. travis1985

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    I've seen several porn clips of a black top and a white bottom with titles like "Black Guy Gets Even" and "Slave's Revenge," but I can't remember ever seeing porn where a white guy fucked a black guy. Maybe this is a day and age where even pornography has hangups about the politics of gay sex and can't risk a politically incorrect racial implication.
     
  9. oraldude55

    oraldude55 New Member

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    I watch gay porn and always watch a white guy sucking a black cock till he cums in his mouth I love it and always will go out of my way for the chance to suck some black dick I dont believe in racismI was turned on to black cock at 18 years old and now I am 55 and still always want it
     
  10. Thedrewbert

    Thedrewbert Member

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    It is racist for liking something?

    There are guys out there that like to fuck guys in baseball hats, or socks, or through the bathroom stall....
     
  11. g_whiz

    g_whiz New Member

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    I think you're touching on something very interesting here. There's what I'd call racial fetishism in porn and I think it cuts across all sexual orientations, but I think men are far worse about it. I've lost track of the number of times I've been approached by white guys (attempting to be complimentary) and making the compliment all about how I was attractive, or smart or clever and then imply its conspicuous because of my being black, or unique because they don't perceive others this way. It always depersonalizes any intimacy or human connection and reduces it to the basest common denominator.

    A UK series Sirens did an episode recently that touches on this quite well: The paramedic who is openly gay has been trying to win over a gay policeman (who happens to be black), and on their date, in the middle of their intimacy he kept interjecting about "big black" stud during every part of their very cute date. The cop tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but eventually left because the guy seemed more into him to fulfill some black butch stereotype than him as an individual. Good thread.
     
    #11 g_whiz, Jul 21, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2011
  12. g_whiz

    g_whiz New Member

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    Well, no. As baseball caps are not comparable to human beings (or characteristics that define them), you can take off a baseball cap, and if suddenly putting one on makes you magically more attractive to person X, then more power to you.
    If you had a baseball cap grafted to your head and couldn't remove it, and people would come up to you and express interest in you JUST because you fulfilled some random fantasy, then it would become objectifying. Not racist. Fantasy is one thing. But being "baseball cap boyfriend" just because you're wearing a baseball cap and thats the only thing your partner cares about is demeaning. If all parties are about simple one off casual fetish role play, thats fine. Big black stud in thug gear, hooray.

    But if there's any potential for connection beyond that, its superficial and limiting to be written off/defined by racial (or any other) characteristics. "I'm only dating Joe because he has a big nose." Must be real special for Joe.


     
    #12 g_whiz, Jul 21, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2011
  13. enricocaruso

    enricocaruso New Member

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    I suppose that all fetishes – in this case the exaggerated or fictionalised portrayal of Arab men in gay porn – should theoretically tell us something about our inner most feelings. However, having acknowledged that they may tell us something, trying to reach any sort of consensus on just what they tell us is far from easy. There are so many possible interpretations!

    This fetish, for example, could be interpreted as racist i.e. derogatory towards a particular group in society. Another quite different interpretation is that it is harmless given that it is obviously a fiction – being pornography - and the Arabs benefit from this portrayal as sexy exotic lovers. Much is open to debate. A reason for this stereotype’s popularity may well be the novelty value of being able to ogle sexy Arab men having gay sex while in the ‘real world’ many Arab men are Muslim and it is taboo for them to have gay relationships as part of that culture. Perhaps the Arab men can be interpreted as being ‘forbidden fruit’ and full of fantasy potential just like all those films which allegedly involve straight men i.e. forbidden fruit?

    I am not sure about the stereotype being due to a post-colonial mentality. For instance there are very similar stereotypes regarding groups who were never colonial conquests. The ideal of Italian men being passionate lovers or French men being romantic or whatever is not colonial but rather the universal trait of generalising about ‘’the other’’.

    Humans invariably create myths about ‘the other’ groups/tribes. E.g. the idea that one village says ‘the next village over are cannibals’ and when you get there they say ‘No! the next village over are cannibals’ etc. I suppose that like any stereotype this can be described in a more negative light as sexist, racist etc. or on the other hand rather both universal and inconsequential.

    I think in this instance that the stereotypical image of Arab men e.g. highly sexual with lots of wives and lovers, brown-skinned and hairy, exotic and perhaps frightening is one that happens to tick A LOT of gay fetish ‘boxes’. It would probably prove a loaded question to ask a gay guy ‘what was it exactly about the hairy, sweaty, bronze-skinned hunk in that video re Arab men that got you feeling hot under the collar’!!

    Identifying the fetishes as stereotypes does not mean they are intrinsically bad or that they are really worth much consideration. As long as they help get you off without affecting your relationships with other genders/nationalities then they are arguably not too problematic.

    Thanks for this interesting thread,
    David
     
  14. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    I really don't know why I'm about to type this, but here it goes anyhow.

    There's a difference between preference and prejudice. While it's true that people have their specific tastes and others rarely venture outside of that, there's also a point when conveying that message crosses the line and it goes from being respectful to downright hateful. Being that I've been more attracted to white men for most of my life, I received much of my share of comments from my own community. Snow Queen. Oreo. Wannabe. The list goes on. What they don't know is that I have no problem sleeping with someone of a different race whatsoever.

    I tend to believe that the negative responses fuel from their own self loathing and anger regarding their own image and how people perceive them. Many of them, besides the friends they hang out with in public or online, are truly lonely people who are looking for their own piece of perfection in a world full of imperfections. They see something that they like, but they are too scared to approach due to what they think their so-called "friends" or family members would say or think. And when they're around other people (or in the privacy of their own home/room), the timidness they usually feel goes away and is replaced with the courage to speak out. Unfortunately, it says more about them than the person they're taking grievance with.

    I can't stand profiles that say, "White Only". Or "Black Only". "No fats or fems". "Str8 acting only". "Under 35 or don't bother". Anything like that. If one has to be that blunt and dismissive in something as simple as an online profile for possible companionship (whether it be friendly or sexual), it tells me that they have issues. Really, big issues. You never know who you might meet who will become a really good friend to talk to and hang out with. It can't always be about the booty call or the search for a long distant relationship. Too many people look for the love of their lives and try too damn hard to do it. When all they have to do is stop looking and start doing the things they love. Then it doesn't become just about fetishes or how hot someone looks.

    But whatever.
     
  15. Sklar

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    I'm not sure if I'd call it racism but my experience has been more along the lines of: "if you don't think like I do, believe in what I believe in or have a differing opinion, fuck you, you stupid idiot."

    I don't fit in with the vast majority of my fellow gays, here in Washington, because I tend to be more conservative than them. If you really want to see blind hatred, just go to the political forum and read what the vast majority of posters say about gay republicans/tea party members.

    BTW, I'm NOT hijacking this into a political discussion. Just letting you know how I'm treated because I don't think/act like I'm "supposed" to act as a gay male.

    Sklar
     
  16. spoon

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    <<<and noticing how much of this stuff is so laced with its own deeply racist sensibility on every level when it comes to non-white people. The attached link is from just one example in which (supposedly) Arab gays have sex in native head-dress for effect. This kind of stuff is widespread.>>>>>

    this is an interesting discussion. my thoughts: it's not just gay porn. people are haters, or, at least bigoted in the united states. racists, homophobes, religious zealots, etc.

    i was seeing/living with a black man in the past year. first black man i have been with. he opened my eyes to things that i had never paid much attention to. simple things as in who commercials were aimed at. things i never paid too much attention too. we're still good friends. but, we were very different. black man from the south and white girl from the northeast.
     
  17. kayman

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    Yep, that is the vast majority of gay porn in general. Most guys of color can't appear on film unless they are fulfilling some ethnic stereotype.
     
  18. TomCat84

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    What's your solution then? I mean, are the only non racist people those whose sexual encounters perfectly mirror the racial distribution in our society? I can say with absolute certainty that 75% of the guys I have slept with have been non white- with a vats majority of them being Mexican or some other Hispanic guy. Why? I know why. I had a typical upper middle class American upbringing in a mostly white neighborhood in a conservative county. I like guys who have different backgrounds than me. I find skin color contrasts sexy. DO I fantasize about Arabs dressed up like Aladdin? No, of course not. I fantasize about them and other non white guys because they are different than me. I don't get what is wrong about that. Besides, there are plenty of non white guys who are ONLY into non white guys, or members of their own race.
     
  19. BigDallasDick8x6

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    It isn't just gay porn. Look at the straight cuckold genre -- white couple brings a black guy in. There are 100 (or 10,000) of those for every one in the other direction. So it's not a specifically gay thing. It's porn in general.
     
  20. chrispy

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    I spent the first 25 years of my adult life as a "pro-mo" (professional homosexual), working at LGBT agencies.

    I think because, all progress aside, our communities are still marginalized by society as a whole, there is a tremendous reticence on the part of LGBT "leadership" to publicly admit that LGBT people are still human beings. I have always found such "idealism" confusing, and more than a little shameful.

    Even though we call for change, as marginalized people, I think we often mean exchange. We have been bullied, and look for someone we can bully in turn.

    Truth is often unpleasant; all of us in the LGBT communities need to acknowledge that we are human beings first, subject to all of the same prejudices as everyone else.

    Where else do most of gay men learn what it means to be gay, particularly what gay sex is/should be, but through porn? And porn is all about fantasies. It seems to be self-perpetuating.

    To all of you who sat through my ad-hoc lecture, thanks for listening (reading?)...

    Be well...
     
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