Gay Pride Firemen

DC_DEEP

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People were made to feel uncomfortable because of their sexual orientation.

Isn't that what y'all are always bitching about? Your lack of sympathy just because they're different than you is quite telling.

You demand to be treated in ways you reserve the right not to treat others.

Awesome.

Oh yeah I'm sorry. It's ok for you because it's only revenge. Sounds like a great recipe for mutual understanding.
So, Shelby, give an honest answer. Why did you post this link in the first place? None of your usual, glib, cutesy, sarcastic answers. Just an honest answer. Why did you post it?
 

mindseye

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Isn't that what y'all are always bitching about? Your lack of sympathy just because they're different than you is quite telling.

Shelby also started this thread, whining because some bar on a completely different continent didn't allow straight members. He fails (willfully, it seems) to comprehend the difference between being treated like a second-class citizen once, and being treated like a second-class citizen every day.

It's incorrect to say that I have a "lack" of sympathy for those firefighters and the horrendous ordeal they've been through. I suppose that over the course of the year, I'll feel about 1/365th the sympathy for them that I feel for their chief. Possibly less, once the rest of the story unfolds.

*breaks out the teeny-tiny kleenex*
 

DiegoID

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Ok I think that forcing the Firement to be in the parade was wong, and that there should be some administrative punishment for the people who gave the order. It was wrong to make them march, and the Lesbian Fire Chief has already apologized for her mistake.

I also think it is wrong for these firefighers to sue the city in an attempt for a multi-million dollar settlement. The city is barely hanging on financially, and can't afford to pay for stupid mistakes.

What I don't understand is why didn't some of the 20+ firemen who marched with the Firecheif drove the fire engine, instead of having the "On duty" crew do it.

I think that the sexual harrassment is overstated, and it's effects on their lifes is really minimal. The harrassment doesn't surprise me though. What do you expect driving down the Gay Pride parade dressed like one of the Village People.

I just hope that some middle ground can be found, and that the city doesn't end up giving these guys tons of undeserved money.
 

Shelby

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So, Shelby, give an honest answer. Why did you post this link in the first place? None of your usual, glib, cutesy, sarcastic answers. Just an honest answer. Why did you post it?

I wanted to see just how desperately and to what lengths people are willing to go to hang on the title of victim.

I do that a lot.

Victims seek and accrue power through invoking guilt. To sympathize with the straight firemen would have implied some level of equality. We can't have that can we?

You hardly ever hear gays talk about the fact that they're better educated and wealthier on average than their straight counterparts. Do you ever wonder why that is?
 

mindseye

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You hardly ever hear gays talk about the fact

the fact?!

that they're better educated and wealthier on average than their straight counterparts. Do you ever wonder why that is?

Better educated and wealthier gay people are more likely to be in a position where they can come out securely and safely than their counterparts who work at Wal-Marts and 7-11's, live from paycheck to paycheck, and can't afford to run up against some homophobic higher-up.

We're at all rungs of society, but disproportionately visible nearer the top rungs, because it's nearer the top rungs that we can afford to take the kinds of risks that coming out entails.
 

Shelby

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Shelby also started this thread, whining because some bar on a completely different continent didn't allow straight members. He fails (willfully, it seems) to comprehend the difference between being treated like a second-class citizen once, and being treated like a second-class citizen every day.

Being treated like? Or considering oneself? If a) by who? Everyone? How do they know, do you wear a sign?

It's incorrect to say that I have a "lack" of sympathy for those firefighters and the horrendous ordeal they've been through. I suppose that over the course of the year, I'll feel about 1/365th the sympathy for them that I feel for their chief. Possibly less, once the rest of the story unfolds.
*breaks out the teeny-tiny kleenex*

Oh don't worry, she'll probably has some of the finest lawyers in the country offering to represent her already.

"horrendous ordeal"... "teeny tiny kleenex". You've got the victim trip down dude. Keep milking it.
 

DC_DEEP

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I wanted to see just how desperately and to what lengths people are willing to go to hang on the title of victim.

I do that a lot.
You post a lot of inflammatory anti-gay stories, just to get a rise. I'm not sure I see your point. And speaking of "hanging on to the title of victim," is that not exactly what those firemen are doing?
Victims seek and accrue power through invoking guilt. To sympathize with the straight firemen would have implied some level of equality. We can't have that can we?

You hardly ever hear gays talk about the fact that they're better educated and wealthier on average than their straight counterparts. Do you ever wonder why that is?
When you post shit like this, the gays are in a no-win situation, you realize that, don't you? That's why you really do it, right? When a gay person posts that he has been victimized by a straight person, you reply "quit being such a victim" or "get over it." When a straight person gets victimized by a gay person, you gloat that a few of us have mentioned "a taste of your own medicine, eh?" And what do you think the ratios are for gay oppressor/straight victim, and straight oppressor/gay victim? Really, what is your purpose? I'll make a deal with you. I'll start combing the news for instances of physical violence and workplace discrimination against gays, and you comb the news for instances of gays perpetrating those crimes against straights. Let's see who can get the most news articles. If you factor in the numbers of gay/straight citizens, then let's talk.

Really, why do you do it?
 

Shelby

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the fact?!



Better educated and wealthier gay people are more likely to be in a position where they can come out securely and safely than their counterparts who work at Wal-Marts and 7-11's, live from paycheck to paycheck, and can't afford to run up against some homophobic higher-up.

We're at all rungs of society, but disproportionately visible nearer the top rungs, because it's nearer the top rungs that we can afford to take the kinds of risks that coming out entails.

What about on average is unclear?

Of course there is variation. It just seems strange that a group so victimized is generally better off than those they claim oppress them.
 

Shelby

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You post a lot of inflammatory anti-gay stories, just to get a rise. I'm not sure I see your point. And speaking of "hanging on to the title of victim," is that not exactly what those firemen are doing?When you post shit like this, the gays are in a no-win situation, you realize that, don't you? That's why you really do it, right? When a gay person posts that he has been victimized by a straight person, you reply "quit being such a victim" or "get over it." When a straight person gets victimized by a gay person, you gloat that a few of us have mentioned "a taste of your own medicine, eh?" And what do you think the ratios are for gay oppressor/straight victim, and straight oppressor/gay victim? Really, what is your purpose? I'll make a deal with you. I'll start combing the news for instances of physical violence and workplace discrimination against gays, and you comb the news for instances of gays perpetrating those crimes against straights. Let's see who can get the most news articles. If you factor in the numbers of gay/straight citizens, then let's talk.

Really, why do you do it?

To try and show that we're all basically equal at core. Minority groups are always trying to take the high road by invoking guilt. In some cases it's even deserved. But I think for the most part it's way overplayed and counterproductive.

It's great for getting handouts or entitlements. But it stands in the way of true equality.

Also, there's the hypocrisy. If straights say faggot it's hatespeech. If gays say breeder it's not. I enjoy pointing out instances of this writ large. Like this thread and the one midseye mentioned.
 

B_lisasdong

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I have been so forced -- as a condition for graduation from a public high school, during the 1980's. And I have always advocated for the rights of Christians: the right to self-identify, the right to assemble peaceably, the right to overbreed (I sure wish they wouldn't) -- exactly up to the point where they demand that other people accommodate their beliefs in schools, courthouses, hospitals, clinics, neighborhoods, workplaces, etc.

Wonderful. So it's safe to assume that you agree with the firemen that they should not have been forced to participate in the parade, despite the "education" that you believe they might require?

I'll leave alone your snarky shot at Christians breeding.
 

B_lisasdong

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To try and show that we're all basically equal at core. Minority groups are always trying to take the high road by invoking guilt. In some cases it's even deserved. But I think for the most part it's way overplayed and counterproductive.

It's great for getting handouts or entitlements. But it stands in the way of true equality.

Also, there's the hypocrisy. If straights say faggot it's hatespeech. If gays say breeder it's not. I enjoy pointing out instances of this writ large. Like this thread and the one midseye mentioned.

I couldn't agree more, Shelby, and I appreciate the effort.
 

jerkdude75

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This happens and its annoying. There are required events at work I am uncomfortable with, to be sure.

Indulge me, please, while I rant a bit:

Example: I'm often mandated to attend obligatory "diversity" training sessions at work. While I acknowledge the intent of diversity training is to reduce workplace conflicts and misunderstandings, I am put off by the heavy handed and patronizing way it has often been delivered.

To wit: Straight, white, middle class guys like me are usually used in the diversity training vidoes as subject examples of how not to behave at work. They are so often depicted as small minded, obnoxious, sexual predators or juvenile boors bent on offending everyone in the workplace.

Even worse, the group talk sessions after the videos are usually mediated by a "diversity" facilitator. The facilitator is supposed to remain nuetral and objective to guide the conversation but I've seen too many of them lose the pretense of nuetrality and tolerate white guy bashing in a way that wouldn't be tolerated were the roles reversed.

Dare to complain about any of this and you'll be marked as a troublemaker, due for even more diversity training.

I realize my complaints will likely draw little sympathy from minorities and others who've suffered from real discrimination. I understand that. But I can't deny I get weary of seeing my race and orientation so often being used as a doormat for social ills.

/rant

Hey, man. I definitely agree with what you're saying. However, it is funny in a highly ironic way: It's a bit of accepted racism/stereotyping in diversity training. What's up with that ;o)

I have some black friends who make "white" jokes, sometimes in the company of whites. That makes me a little uncomfortable because if the roles were reversed, we all know there are those who wouldn't like it.

As for the article about which I should really be commenting, I can't even say anything. The author is just so unskilled and obviously biased, he doesn't deserve any of my energy.
 

DC_DEEP

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I'll leave alone your snarky shot at Christians breeding.
And for the time being, I'll leave alone your snarky comment about gays being forced to participate in christian advocacy.

Yes. I was responding to mindseye, though. Did you read post #4? Or #7?
I have read all the posts. You were quick to get inflamed at a straight christian being "forced" to attend a gay function, but you didn't comment on gay non-christians being "forced" to participate in christian functions. Which do you think occurs more often?

(And just a guess - do you vote republican?)

To try and show that we're all basically equal at core. Minority groups are always trying to take the high road by invoking guilt. In some cases it's even deserved. But I think for the most part it's way overplayed and counterproductive.
True in an ideal world, but what have you done to make us all basically equal at core? I have yet to see you post anything at all regarding straights mistreating of gays, but you take every opportunity to post whatever you can find about gays mistreating straights (which you do, about every 10 months or so). I'll ask you what I asked lisasdong: which do you think occurs more often? By your reasoning, if us "gay folk" would just shut up and stop whining, the discrimination will go away.
<...>
Also, there's the hypocrisy. If straights say faggot it's hatespeech. If gays say breeder it's not. I enjoy pointing out instances of this writ large. Like this thread and the one midseye mentioned.[/quote]So, once again, there's the question of frequency. I know you enjoy pointing this out, but then again, you point it out infrequently - because it happens (proportionally) infrequently.

Again, for emphasis, I will ask you... are you saying that if we just shut up, the problem will go away?

And again, I'll put the challenge out there for you. I'll even narrow the field. Once a week, you post all the articles you can find, in which a gay person has fired a straight employee for being straight, or murdered a straight person for being straight. And once a week, I'll post all the articles I can find in which a straight person fires a gay employee for being gay, or in which a straight person murders a gay person for being gay. Let's see who has the longer list.

If you think that's whining or looking for handouts or entitlements, you may have some pathology going on there.