Gay re-orientation

[B_Spladle]

Pray out the gay!

 

[dolf250]

Again I know that it will not be a popular opinion, but none the less, here it is:
I disagree with trying to change a persons orientation: if it is against their will. However, you have to remember that whatever the reason is, the people in these groups are there by choice. If it is religious guilt or pressure it is probably the wrong reason, but it is still their choice. Would you deny these groups the right to exist and thereby limit peoples freedoms to be what they want to be just because you know better? Again, I am not saying that gay men should just try a little harder to be straight and the world would be a utopia. All that I am saying is that everybody has the right to chose what they want for their lives. This is just one more example of a choice (you could probably argue quite successfully that it is a poor choice) that people are entitled to be able to make.

 

[findfirefox]

Pray out the gay!

Thats the best way to go, "Oh dear Lord I want'ith you to wash the gay away!"

 

[hypolimnas]

Why would anyone want to "turn straight" ?

Is there something wrong with being gay then ?

Wickedness is a myth invented by good people to account for the curious attractiveness of others

Oscar Wilde

 

[DC_DEEP]

Unfortunatly:

Leviticus 20:13 'If a man has sex with a man in same way as with a woman, they have committed an abomination. They are certainly to be put to death.'

Even more unfortunatly, some people actually beleive that shit.

I knew there was a loophole. When I have gay sex it is definitely NOT in the same way as with women (by the way, which translation is that from? There are several, but I've never seen one that actually says "have sex with")

Since men do not have vaginas, there is no way I could have sex with a man in the same way as with a woman! So what I do CAN'T be a sin!

 

[Nelly Gay]

Unfortunatly:

Leviticus 20:13 'If a man has sex with a man in same way as with a woman, they have committed an abomination. They are certainly to be put to death.'

Okey Dokey ! ! !

 

[madame_zora]

Again I know that it will not be a popular opinion, but none the less, here it is:
I disagree with trying to change a persons orientation: if it is against their will. However, you have to remember that whatever the reason is, the people in these groups are there by choice. If it is religious guilt or pressure it is probably the wrong reason, but it is still their choice. Would you deny these groups the right to exist and thereby limit peoples freedoms to be what they want to be just because you know better? Again, I am not saying that gay men should just try a little harder to be straight and the world would be a utopia. All that I am saying is that everybody has the right to chose what they want for their lives. This is just one more example of a choice (you could probably argue quite successfully that it is a poor choice) that people are entitled to be able to make.

Haha, I'm not suggesting legislation to stop them, I'm just shouting them down. THAT'S free speech too, or doesn't mine count? I think it's the responsibility of thinking people everywhere to call out something that's horrible and stupid, and expose it for the crock of shit it is. I'm not saying to make them illegal, I'm just calling them names, what's wrong with that?

 

[D_Sheffield Thongbynder]

I think it's the responsibility of thinking people everywhere to call out something that's horrible and stupid, and expose it for the crock of shit it is.

Well said! There's too much apathy everywhere.

 

[Lordpendragon]

Have you ever noticed that Hungary is only one letter away from being a more interesting place?

Unless you're called Gary of course.

http://www.evilbible.com/

 

[D_Sheffield Thongbynder]

Until PMing with a member this morning, I had no idea just how fucked up this religious alchemy is.

 

[B_Stronzo]

Until PMing with a member this morning, I had no idea just how fucked up this religious alchemy is.

Dear John,

Ain't it somethin'???

What some will do to conform to another's notion of normalcy...

Shame is a powerful weapon.

 

[D_Sheffield Thongbynder]

It reminds me of those trials back in the 1600's up in your neck of the woods, Richard. Disheartening to see how little the church has evolved in the last few centuries.

 

[Lex]

It reminds me of those trials back in the 1600's up in your neck of the woods, Richard. Disheartening to see how little the church has evolved in the last few centuries.

I really think it is the people who have not evolved.

My former pastor, during pre-marital counseling, talked to me about how religion and science had been at odds and how silly it was because, in his worldview, science was "of God" and a part of all she had made, such that our scientific discoveries are our ways of uncovering her intentions and design. He was a rather modern and forward thinking man.

A system based on fear and shame can only sustain as long as they keep you afraid and wanting. Our entire American economic engine is based like that: Fear and Consumption. You suck, you're not worthy, now go buy something to fit in and make yourself feel better.

No thanks.

I'm on the outside.
I'm looking in. I can see through you; see your true colors.
'Cause inside you're ugly; ugly like me.
But I can see through you; see to the real you.

Clarity of self and comfort in your own skin are the first steps to overcoming this non-sense.

 

[Freddie53]

This is some seriously funny stuff. Someguy, I actually pulled out my Bible and read that passage, but the whole thing is a hoot:

1 The LORD said to Moses,

2 "Tell the Israelites: Anyone, whether an Israelite or an alien residing in Israel, who gives any of his offspring to Molech* shall be put to death. Let his fellow citizens stone him.

3 I myself will turn against such a man and cut him off from the body of his people; for in giving his offspring to Molech, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name.

4 Even if his fellow citizens connive at such a man's crime of giving his offspring to Molech, and fail to put him to death,

5 I myself will set my face against that man and his family and will cut off from their people both him and all who join him in his wanton worship of Molech.

6 Should anyone turn to mediums and fortune-tellers and follow their wanton ways, I will turn against such a one and cut him off from his people.

7 Sanctify yourselves, then, and be holy; for I, the LORD, your God, am holy. 8 Be careful, therefore, to observe what I, the LORD, who make you holy, have prescribed.

9 "Anyone who curses his father or mother shall be put to death; since he has cursed his father or mother, he has forfeited his life.

10 If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.

11 If a man disgraces his father by lying with his father's wife, both the man and his stepmother shall be put to death; they have forfeited their lives.

12 If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall be put to death; since they have committed an abhorrent deed, they have forfeited their lives.

13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.

14 If a man marries a woman and her mother also, the man and the two women as well shall be burned to death for their shameful conduct, so that such shamefulness may not be found among you.

15 If a man has carnal relations with an animal, the man shall be put to death, and the animal shall be slain.

16 If a woman goes up to any animal to mate with it, the woman and the animal shall be slain; let them both be put to death; their lives are forfeit.

17 If a man consummates marriage with his sister or his half-sister, they shall be publicly cut off from their people for this shameful deed; the man shall pay the penalty of having had intercourse with his own sister.

18 If a man lies in sexual intercourse with a woman during her menstrual period, both of them shall be cut off from their people, because they have laid bare the flowing fountain of her blood.

19 You shall not have intercourse with your mother's sister or your father's sister; whoever does so shall pay the penalty of incest.

20 If a man disgraces his uncle by having intercourse with his uncle's wife, the man and his aunt shall pay the penalty by dying childless.

21 If a man marries his brother's wife and thus disgraces his brother, they shall be childless because of this incest.

22 "Be careful to observe all my statutes and all my decrees; otherwise the land where I am bringing you to dwell will vomit you out.

23 Do not conform, therefore, to the customs of the nations whom I am driving out of your way, because all these things that they have done have filled me with disgust for them.

24 But to you I have said: Their land shall be your possession, a land flowing with milk and honey. I am giving it to you as your own, I, the LORD, your God, who have set you apart from the other nations.

25 You, too, must set apart, then, the clean animals from the unclean, and the clean birds from the unclean, so that you may not be contaminated with the uncleanness of any beast or bird or of any swarming creature in the land that I have set apart for you.

26 To me, therefore, you shall be sacred; for I, the LORD, am sacred, I, who have set you apart from the other nations to be my own.

27 1 "A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortune-teller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death."

* http://www.themystica.com/mythical-folk/articles/molech.html

I tried to post and something went wrong. It is not here.

Thanks Jana, for finding this and posting it. The Old Testament is a combination of "God's laws" and the civil laws of Israel. Civil laws are laws written for a paritcular society by the governent in charge. This above passage are the civil laws of behavior that MOSES NOT GOD wrote. These were never meantto be moral laws for all times and places. They were laws just like the "same sex laws" we are dealing with now in America. Moses makes it clear these are laws for the Isralistes to follow. According to the Bible, God did give laws such as the Ten Commandments for all people of all times to follow. The above passage does not fit into that category. It doesn't come close.

True Bible scholars know the difference between the civil laws of Israel and the religous laws of Israel.

Shame that the rest of the world doesn't know.

 

[Shelby]

Don't anybody knock themselves over patting themselves and each other on the back.

You choose to find find comfort in your beliefs. Others do the same.

The line between what's ok and what's not is a moving target that seems pretty arbitrarily drawn from where I sit.
​

 

[Freddie53]

The only people who can successfully change sex oreintation are the bi's. They can flip either way. Ten percent of the population is totally straight. They can never change their sexual choice. About 10 percent are gay. They can't change their sexual orientation either.

Eighty percent are in some for bisexual. They may be 90 percent gay and 10 percnet straight or any percentage combination.

People who have at least 10 percent orientation can learn to devleop it. They doesn't remove the 90 percent though. It is there and always will be.

But if the attraction is at Zero percent. There is nothing to develop.

Most of these success stories are people who are 60/40 gay/straight. No real conversion done. Just some cultivation of their 40 percent.

My problem with this "conversion" treatment is that the true gay people can't convert compounding their problem.

I can't support these groups. They do more harm than good.

A bixexual can devleop either sexual orientation on his own without the help of anyone.

 

[BarebackJack]

What a FANTASTIC idea!!!
But will they still be able to wear flannel after conversion?
I so dig a man in flannel!

Oh sure! Flannel can be very versatile. And "butch" is this year's "metrosexual". You might want to wait until winter to get your newly converted guy into flannel. Comfort is key, you know.

 

[Matthew]

Don't anybody knock themselves over patting themselves and each other on the back.

Speaking of which, glad you found enough time from your busy schedule back-patting in the Israel/Lebanon thread to swing by and make such a thoughtful contribution here.

 

[Ethyl]

The only people who can successfully change sex oreintation are the bi's. They can flip either way. Ten percent of the population is totally straight. They can never change their sexual choice. About 10 percent are gay. They can't change their sexual orientation either.

Eighty percent are in some for bisexual. They may be 90 percent gay and 10 percnet straight or any percentage combination.

People who have at least 10 percent orientation can learn to devleop it. They doesn't remove the 90 percent though. It is there and always will be.

But if the attraction is at Zero percent. There is nothing to develop.

Most of these success stories are people who are 60/40 gay/straight. No real conversion done. Just some cultivation of their 40 percent.

My problem with this "conversion" treatment is that the true gay people can't convert compounding their problem.

I can't support these groups. They do more harm than good.

A bixexual can devleop either sexual orientation on his own without the help of anyone.

Everything i've read about this subject points to what you've said here. I'm curious to know what conversion treatment groups do with people who've had sexual reassignment surgery. Have you (or anyone else) read anything about it?

*begins Google search*

 

[Lex]

My problem with this "conversion" treatment is that the true gay people can't convert compounding their problem.

I can't support these groups. They do more harm than good.

Everything i've read about this subject points to what you've said here. I'm curious to know what conversion treatment groups do with people who've had sexual reassignment surgery. Have you (or anyone else) read anything about it?

*begins Google search*

There are a few key problems with conversion and they are all underlying:

• Conversion assumes that one orientation is superior/right/valid and the other(s) are not.

• Conversion ignores what we know of the statistical bell curve, which says that most people, as Freddie noted, are in the middle and are neither 100% gay or 100% straight. The total presence and/or absence of a thing (in this case same or opposite-sex attraction) exists at either tail of the bell curve. Hence 100% gay and 100% straight are at either end, not in the middle.

• Conversion assumes that one can not be happy unless you are "straight." These assumptions lead to more self-hatred, repression, and depression from social heterosexism which, combined, are the last things that men and women struggling to accept their true selves need thrown on them.

All in the name of God. UGH.