Gay 'Uncle Tom-ism'

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by superbot, Jul 1, 2011.

  1. superbot

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    I've noticed for some time that here, in good old Great Britain, we STILL seem reluctant to get away from our need to portray gay people (in the media) as relentlessly camp.In amongst the Graham Nortons',Alan Carrs' Gok Wans' and surely worst of all Louie Spence (heave!) there must be better role models?Or maybe it's just that the media,along with the duplicity of certain individuals,won't/can't let go of this parody.Whatever the reason I find it all a bit depressing!!....
     
  2. D_Tim McGnaw

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    I think you're overstating the prevalence, there are numerous portrayals of gay characters on British TV these days, I mean British soap operas and TV dramas have plenty of gay characters, and apart from one or two exceptions most of them don't fit the camp stereotype.

    The guys you mention are mostly light entertainment personalities, camp suits light entertainment. I think you fixate on camp because it offends you, not because it's actually the most common public depiction of how gay men behave.
     
    #2 D_Tim McGnaw, Jul 1, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
  3. superbot

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    Er,I can't think of any straight acting characters on tv.The fact remains that the likes of Louie Spence, et all, are not doing us any favours AT ALL,not just my opinion but most of my friends too.It wouldn't be acceptable to expect black actors/personalities to reinforce stereotypes in this way,so why gay people? Camp is now expected to be the norm no matter how cringe worthy,to such an extent that many straight people believe that this how most gay men behave or live their lives.
     
  4. D_Tim McGnaw

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    I don't even know what "straight acting" is supposed to mean, and frankly I find the term and its implications as offensive as any camp stereotypes, but the fact that you've clearly not caught an episode of Eastenders or Hollyoaks recently doesn't make your ersatz media-analysis all that reliable.
     
  5. vibrationzzz

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  6. Kotchanski

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    Emmerdale, Coronation Street and Eastenders each have gay characters...

    Eastenders has two, neither of which fit the stereotype you mention.
    Emmerdale had two, one is now dead... Neither of those fit either, with one being a "meat head mechanic" and the other being a very nice, polite builder.
    Coronation Street also has two currently... One is quite obviously on the camp side, the other not.

    The examples you've given are all people who while I'm sure "put on a show" are not playing characters in the sense of pretending to be a completely different person. Could it not just be that those people are camp? and were chosen for the shows they are in because of who they are?

    The above examples, are all scripted characters, where they are handed personalities along with what to say and how to behave... and 1/6 fit the camp stereotype (and to no where near the extend of your examples)

    I propose that they aren't the ones giving gay men a bad reputation, or making gay men look bad, but maybe you are... You seem to be cherry picking your examples in such a way as to suggest that men shouldn't be behaving like that, and that the more flamboyant of gay men are somehow less than you.
     
  7. D_Tim McGnaw

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    Yeah Hollyoaks has like 3 or 4 gay characters, and several gay and bisexual characters who're no longer in the show, they've ranged from mildly camp to excessively masculine and butch with all points in between covered.


    I think it's clear that a certain kind of person who is personally insecure about how people view them and is hyper-sensitive to any suggestions of campness will tend to fix on any camp Gay public personalities and vilify them while completely ignoring any other forms of representation of gay men in the media.

    This isn't about how the British media portrays Gay men it's about a certain kind of person's personal issues and them hating people because they're conflicted and unquiet in themselves.
     
    #7 D_Tim McGnaw, Jul 1, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
  8. willow78

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    I live in Australia so the only one I'm aware of is Graham Norton. As a comedian and a presenter of a chat/light entertainment program, it's part of his job to be 'showy' and 'out-there', but I wouldn't consider him 'camp' or even 'flamboyant'.
     
  9. B_crackoff

    B_crackoff New Member

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    ????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????????

    You are kidding right?!

    I think that using UK soaps as any kind of real model is bizarre too. No one behaves like they do in soaps, the plots are forced & are farcical, & diminish the intelligence of anyone watching them.

    In Eastenders all the gay characters are persistently going through some kind of crisis, & are shown to be incapable of making up their minds - what a load of horseshit.

    The media is full of homosexuals, but it is true that very few presenters aren't camp - Paul O'Grady, Norton, & Alan Carr, the gay guys on Dancing On Ice & Strictly Come Dancing, even John Barrowman is ridiculously camp.

    Diarmuid Gavin. He'd be the only non-camp homosexual presenter on TV that I can think of. There must be some successful others, if anyone would like to add to them.

    Possibly non-camp gay men are discriminated against. Maybe they just ain't funny. It certainly perpetuates an ugly stereotype, & funnily enough, none of the successful gay presenters are lookers.

    Exactly how are they or the way they act representative?
     
    #9 B_crackoff, Jul 1, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
  10. D_Tim McGnaw

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    What and using light entertainment show hosts and comedians is such a perfect model? :rolleyes:



    Everyone on Eastenders is going through some kind of crisis, it's that kind of show, and besides should Gay men not be shown having crises? Is that bad for our public image as super-perfect, super-awesome, post-human paragons?





    What stereotype? And in what way ugly? How is TV actualy representative of anyone?
     
  11. Red_Rebel

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    Cant agree more. Why are we as a supposed community who embraces diversity and fights for equality, strive to conform with the heteros and act "masc" while discouraging "campy" behaviours. i find it rather contradictory and self-defeating.
     
  12. D_Tim McGnaw

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    TBH I find that notion that we police ourselves for signs of behaviours we think will reflect badly on us as a community offensive.

    I find the notion that we feel the need to PR ourselves all the time offensive. I don't think any Gay man should feel pressured into behaving in any way he doesn't feel comfortable behaving just because he feels he'll earn the opprobrium of other gay men for not doing so. We need to stop telling one another how to act, stop fighting some kind of psycho-sexual culture war with each other and start accepting that we all come in all shapes, sizes, and flavours, just like the rest of humanity.

    If the media doesn't reflect this fact then that's because the media does a poor job or representing everyone, not just Gay men. I mean Lesbians hardly even get represented at all let alone badly in the mainstream media. Very few Gay men bother to complain about that though for some odd reason.
     
    #12 D_Tim McGnaw, Jul 1, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
  13. flame boy

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    I'm sure that Ian McKellen, Simon Amstell, Evan Davis, Alistair Appleton, Stephen Fry, Matt Lucas, Will Young, Russell Tovey, Joe McElderry, Mark Feehily, Scott Mills, Derren Brown, Stephen K. Amos, Alan Bennett, Mark Gatiss, Mika, Dan Gillespie Sells and Rupert Everett (need I continue) may take issue with the OP's statement.
     
  14. B_crackoff

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    Well it isn't is it? The BBC is staffed overwhelmingly by left wingers, the media as a whole is over represented by homosexuals, all this dictates programming, & yet with all that they still can't show a gay guy having a care free, trouble free relationship or life.

    I'm shocked that you don't find that offensive, because it doesn't give good or even real role models to the gay youngblood.

    I frankly find the mindset of programming so stereotypical as to be homophobic in that it continually doesn't represent homosexuals in a proper way, rather than as sideshow freaks & cartoon camps.

    It seems TV contrives itself to make being gay an issue - when it's not. I'd be happier if sexuality of anykind wasn't thrown in as a plot device. A bit of fun yes, but not the whole mode of existence.

    It makes them one dimensional characters - & that perpetuates stereotypes. Why not multi dimensional characters who are murderers, adventurers, whatever, with being gay as an incidental, barely being noticed.

    Your fighting shadows here Hilly. You're beginning to sound like one of those chaps for whom their sexuality is all their life.

    The portrayl of homosexuals on TV is offensive - because it marginalises further, & it informs others opinions - so you shouldn't be offended when others express that opinion without looking at how the media has informed it.

    How fucking camp are most of them!:biggrin1: Who the fuck are some of them - did you just post a list from elsewhere! All the presenters on that list are as camp as a scout party - exactly which of any of them is even vaguely macho - as expressed as a form of "the opposite to camp" (Everett excepted)?

    You've just posted a list that proves the OP right!

    It just shows that there isn't a wide cross section represented at all.
     
    #14 B_crackoff, Jul 1, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
  15. Red_Rebel

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    I highly doubt that the majority of those supposed "straight-actin" hetero wannabes are concerned about how everyone else sees our community, rather its a selfish act; an attempt to coverup their low self esteem, heck i even see it as a hint of shame for being who they are.
     
  16. D_Tim McGnaw

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    I don't think we should look to TV to provide young gay people with role models.

    I don't know what you're talking about, you're the one who wants TV(?!) to spoon feed young gay people your personal view of what a gay man should be and behave like. I couldn't give a monkeys what TV does.






    The fact you don't know many of these names indicates how completely out of touch you are. Maybe try contemporising your familiarity with the subject before you start pontificating about media representations of Gay people eh? :rolleyes:
     
  17. B_crackoff

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    Joe Mc who? Lol. The fact that you do means I think you watch TV more than you think, & clearly tune in for the gay men! There are some - note that SOME - who aren't known at all to the wider public - & certainly aren't very successful. Bloody hell, you could scrape up a hundred hetero males of the same level, & I wouldn't know them either. They ain't famous outside their niche.

    You clearly read too much OK, Heat & Hello sweetie. Go on, are you a stereotype & know all the stars of Glee & High School Musical too!:biggrin1:

    You've certainly redefined my opinion of you here dear. TTFN
     
  18. jp

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    First, Britain is strides ahead of the United States in terms or tolerance and inclusion of gay people, but I think stereotypes do wonders to limit all minorities. It keeps us in a box that is easy for the rest of society to digest. As a black man and a gay man, I despise anyone who is so comfortable in their stereotype.

    I think that "gay culture" is vacuous and inane. It's all about sex, drugs, muscles, money, and consumption. These are all traits of a life free of contemplation and yes many people who are not gay share these traits but when these things exist in a "culture" people excuse the lack of growth.

    In my life no one is less informed than the gay people I know. If you assume a childlike role withing society, then you will be treated as such. That's the state of things today and dancing around naked on floats only perpetuates it. If you want equality, then you must prove that you're an integral part of society, we must bring value beyond decorating help and comedy. If you don't know what's going on in the world and have failed to develop an opinion about these events then you are worth less than other people who have.

    The Arab Spring, the Greek debt crisis, the American housing crisis, the wars in Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya, global warming are all issues that affect your life, weather you know that or not is a reflection on your intelligence and I'd say the potential you have to contribute to society.

    On masculinity/straight acting gay men. We are not ashamed of being gay. I AM ashamed of simple stereotypical gay men though. If you can wave your Lady Gaga flag that announces that you were "Born This Way!" then maybe you should relax and give me that same space because, guess what, I was born THIS way.
     
  19. B_Nick8

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    I agree but people will look to it anyway, often and especially younger people.

    For the record, almost everyone I know hates Kurt on Glee beginning with his earnestness and borderline hysteria, and I read he's a frequent model.
     
  20. Red_Rebel

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    We are on the same boat here; I dont support any offensive stereotypes of our community. i believe in what the kinsey scale stands for, that human sexuality comes in varying degrees and the same applies for gay guys, our supposed masculinity varies as well. i was merely pointing out that SOME gay guys have a backward state of mind.
     
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