Gay 'Uncle Tom-ism'

D_Tim McGnaw

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Joe Mc who? Lol. The fact that you do means I think you watch TV more than you think, & clearly tune in for the gay men! There are some - note that SOME - who aren't known at all to the wider public - & certainly aren't very successful. Bloody hell, you could scrape up a hundred hetero males of the same level, & I wouldn't know them either. They ain't famous outside their niche.

You clearly read too much OK, Heat & Hello sweetie. Go on, are you a stereotype & know all the stars of Glee & High School Musical too!:biggrin1:

You've certainly redefined my opinion of you here dear. TTFN




I make a fucking good living out of working in a media related industry, if I didn't know who these people were I wouldn't make such a good living.

Tbh I'm kinda glad some bitter old queen I don't even know who knows very little about a subject he has lots of offensive opinions about thinks less of me.


Yeah I don't court the opinion of self-hating homosexuals thanks, I just pity them.
 

flame boy

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Ok so let me get this straight. It's bad that people like Graham Norton and Alan Carr get to take centre stage because they are a bad stereotype of the gay community? You know what else is a bad stereotype - gays hating on other gays for not being or acting a certain way.

The list I compiled was written off the top of my head - if you feel it contains nothing but camp people then you clearly don't know who some/most of the people are. What about someone like Christian Jessen? Still too camp for you? There are plenty of gay people in the public eye who you would fall in to the precious "straight acting" category.

You know why it's called a gay community? Because just like any other community there is a wide and diverse set of people who exist within it. It would be wonderful if some people learned to accept that not everyone is the same and that sometimes people don't fit into your preconceived idea of how someone should be/act. Just because someone may prance around on your TV screens and you don't like that, it doesn't instantly make that person a figure of shame.

Also, the Glee thing has never made sense to me: Kurt is one of three gay characters on there. No one ever mentions the conflicted and repressed jock or the talented and popular handsome guy.

In summary: Oooooh, get you!
 
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jusright

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I'm not gonna have any slanging matches so please, nothing personal is intended!

Regarding camp as a construct I think it depends on how you perceive it and to what level it goes to. Balance is the key thing here.
It can be a way to appear lightweight and less threatening. On some level that may work as a way to get ahead for some industries even behind the scenes- as a marker to set them apart from others or as a way to feel more special on some level, branded as the 'happy-go-lucky gay gay'. I think this may be what the OP meant as an 'Uncle Tom' figure.

My issue is if this is the main and only thing one forms their identity around. To the extent you become a male version of a brash bimbo i.e Jordon/Jodie Marsh(Glamour models for those overseas!). Excessive full on behaviour however it manifests itself isn't exactly celebrated in wider society.

But back to the main point about role models in the media. Although the media does have a big influence on shaping our views, and does have a role in representing more balanced characters and viewpoints but it can't be the sole source. For the most part it is there to entertain/make money, conveying empowering messages 24/7 isn't on its agenda.It's too difficult for them to be all things to all people.Although some gay magazines appear to be less confined within a gay box editorially in terms of the articles. They still revert to 'type' through branding via lifestyle articles and specific adverts for upscale fashion, holidays, accessories, interiors, restaurants etc and the more obvious sexual sceney stuff. :eek:)

Indirectly you're given a vision of the ideal gay man. His income level, appearance, ethnicity, social interests etc. They can't critique the consumerist elements too much as advertising is a big part of its revenue and their clients wont advertise in places where they don't think will make them money!

The key thing is to work towards being a decent human being that happens to be gay. Take traits from different sources and make them work for you as a healthy fully rounded individual but accept you're always learning. ( I hope that isn't too in depth) :)
 
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Bbucko

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Aside from Hilly's usual brilliance, the main take-away from this thread is that Brits are as likely as Americans to confuse fictional characters with real people.
 

Bbucko

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The problem with gay portrayals is not what is on the tele but the image given off by the culture as a majority in real life.

Which culture?

Bears?
Leather?
Twinks?
Steroid Circuit Queens?
Daddies/Granddaddies?
Gay Rodeo Circuit Guys?
Drag Queens?
Drag Kings?
Butch Dykes?
Effeminate Interior Decorators/Hairdressers?
Pierced and Tattooed Queers (male and/or female)?

I work in a gay bar 5-7 nights per week and encounter all these stereotypes, along with many others perhaps less-definable but just as recognizable.

When will we feel pride when we're still beholden to the opinions of those (including other LGBTs) who hold us in such utter contempt?
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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Which culture?

Bears?
Leather?
Twinks?
Steroid Circuit Queens?
Daddies/Granddaddies?
Gay Rodeo Circuit Guys?
Drag Queens?
Drag Kings?
Butch Dykes?
Effeminate Interior Decorators/Hairdressers?
Pierced and Tattooed Queers (male and/or female)?

I work in a gay bar 5-7 nights per week and encounter all these stereotypes, along with many others perhaps less-definable but just as recognizable.

When will we feel pride when we're still beholden to the opinions of those (including other LGBTs) who hold us in such utter contempt?




It's like I said, we police ourselves so heavily for conformity and for allegiance to culturally or sub-culturally normative behaviours, and many Gay people seem to demand that only a sanitised image of Gayness should be propagandised through the media.

Tbh I don't really mind how TV depicts us so long as it isn't a hateful or prejudiced depiction. The fact that people can access vast quantities of representations of Gay people and what it can mean to be Gay across a huge spectrum of sources means that the old concern with mainstream and primetime media is fairly anachronistic.

TV itself is becoming less and less relevant in any case.

We need to start thinking about providing real flesh and blood guy-down-the-street-type role models for younger Gay people.

And just because some Gay men are offended by campness, I should say despise it, that does not mean we should start tarring successful Gay men who do work in any Media with deeply offensive terms like "Uncle-Tom" because that sends the message to young Gay people that part of being Gay is being intolerant, hateful and unwilling to accept other people for who they are.

If people want to look to who's being a poor role model they should look at themselves first.
 
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B_RedDude

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BE the gay role model that you want there to be. That's the best thing any single individual can do.

I've got to run out for my lisping lesson now.
 
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scottredleter

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uncamp gay men are just assumed to be straight, so they just disappear into the crowd. Fem men are our frontline soldiers and they just don't have any other choice... its up to the butch ones to make it known that they are gay so a different idea starts to creep into everyones head.

I feel the same way in the US... most gay characters are just prissy gay stereotypes presented to the straight world for their ammusement like an animal at a zoo.

Even at straight party's where it becomes known that I am gay, suddenly I start getting asked about Madonna and shit like that, like every gay person knows or even cares about Madonna or whatever other poppy gay icon may be out there... how boring.
 

scottredleter

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I will say that at least in film now, all gay characters are not killed or take their life in some tragic way to show how horrible gay life is... It was somewhere around 1975 before a gay character in a film was not mordered or killed himeself by the end of the film... The film was 'Boys in the Band', and trust me... if you watch it, you will feel like opening a vein by the end of that fucking movie!
 

TomCat84

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I'm incredibly offended by the use of the term "straight acting", and the derision of "campy" gays- usually accompanied by the accusation that queens make the more "normal" gays look bad. You know what? FUCK YOU. It was the drag queens, street rats, and nelly queens out on the front lines who have made it possible to be in that horrible musty closet of yours.
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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I'm incredibly offended by the use of the term "straight acting", and the derision of "campy" gays- usually accompanied by the accusation that queens make the more "normal" gays look bad. You know what? FUCK YOU. It was the drag queens, street rats, and nelly queens out on the front lines who have made it possible to be in that horrible musty closet of yours.



Amen.
 
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The term straight acting is common parlance as WELL you know.IF it is an offensive one how comes it appears in practically every other personal ad in the back pages of any given gay publication???
 
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D_Tim McGnaw

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The term straight acting is common parlance as WELL you know.IF it is an offensive one how comes it appears in practically even other personal ad in the back pages of any given gay publication???



Personals adds and hookup site profiles offer terminological credibility now too? News to me, I stand corrected. :rolleyes:


"filthy faggot" is common parlance, doesn't make it any less offensive when its used in certain contexts.
 
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deleted3782

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The most SELF loathing words spoken by a gay man:

STRAIGHT acting and appearing only!


(How straight does one look with a dick in one's mouth or up one's ass)

Is the term "masculine" preferable?
 

willow78

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I once saw a personal ad from a guy who described himself as a 'straight-acting cross-dresser'. I wonder if that's at the same time.....:wink:
 

Guy-jin

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I'm incredibly offended by the use of the term "straight acting", and the derision of "campy" gays- usually accompanied by the accusation that queens make the more "normal" gays look bad. You know what? FUCK YOU. It was the drag queens, street rats, and nelly queens out on the front lines who have made it possible to be in that horrible musty closet of yours.

If a gay man calls himself "straight-acting", he's not in the closet anymore.

There has to be some middle ground. There's something between being a drag queen and being in the closet.

What do you call that state?

And don't say "normal" unless you want Industrialsize to ask you what "normal" means. :biggrin1: