Gays Who Hate Gay Culture

[amiegrrl]

<...> For example, I would go into a bar, a cute guy would be standing there, so I gather my pride, and pleasantly walk over to them, and say "Hi"
Immediate response without eye-contact "No".
Me - "Excuse me?"
Him - "Forget it...No.. Shoo"

It seems like here(MI), there are many that think If your not buff and beautiful, your chopped liver. <...>

That's just mean When I was into the bar scene more, it always pissed me off when girls in our group would rudely "dismiss" men out of hand instead of being polite about it.

I work with the only two gay men I know. One tries to be "pretty" and makes comments to that effect all the time. He's forever making comments about the clothes we wear and how we do our hair - either voicing his approval or criticism. Just the women. He does impressions of 'Jack' from Will and Grace, and has a little group of girls that follow him around. I'm guessing it's his way of trying to be the 'cute, bitchy' type to assert his superiority - like the 'popular' girls in high school did.

The other gay man I work with is more 'manly' ... or at least much less prissy. He shaves his head, likes sports, etc. He's a little easier to get along with (or at least to talk to), but he's always putting people down too. He tries to be funny about it, calling the girls at work 'slut' when they walk by ... tossing out the occasional and ever-hilarous 'Your-Mom joke'. It's really just not funny. These are the only two men I've known (somewhat) personally that are gay, and it's really given me a colored view of gay people in general. It's kind of a turn-off, even though I know it's just their way of trying to fit in and be accepted.

Maybe it is a Michigan thing... :shrug:

 

[aristarchus]

I have found many gay men become victims of this culture and the cult of beauty. They often are over sexed, over drugged, over gym toned, over surgically enhanced, and over accessorized in the pursuit of trying to fit in and attact sexual partners. Many enjoy this culture and find it fulfilling. I unfortunately do not.

I don't have much in common with my gay city cousins.

First off, I’m with Lex on the need for a definition of what “gay culture” actually is. Earl gave some examples of what the term means to him--and pretty much everybody thus far has expressed similar lack of comfort with that “scene.”

But two observations: One, I spent last year in Southern California, and frankly the whole scene there struck me pretty much like what earl describes--and I’m not talking the gay scene alone--I mean the WHOLE scene. At first I just wondered where all the people over 35 were--were they set adrift in the sea? Then I realized that there were over 35s on the street after all, but just so botoxed, lifted, padded, snipped and dolled up to fit some image of “youth” that I didn’t recognize them. So the superficial culture of looks and sex is not restricted to gay circles (refer to LeeEJ's first message for the same perspective). And no, I don’t like it either, regardless of the orientation of the people involved. But this is the image beamed at our brains by the entertainment and advertising industry, so it’s no mystery where it comes from. (OK, OK, you folks from CA, don’t flame me yet--read on for a self-correction of the above.)

Second, there are the cultures we see and the cultures that are. I saw the paralyzed foreheads of So. CA because their whole purpose was TO BE SEEN. And sure, I see the beautiful things in gay locales all over and the emphasis on sex, youth, and beauty, but those are again MEANT to be seen--so naturally have the highest profile. But that’s not the whole culture. I’m sure there are “normal” folks in So. CA, I just didn’t see many of ‘em, and yes, I sometimes felt like an alien. And likewise, there a whole beautiful “gay culture” out there that is largely invisible.

I could never have been part of the gay culture earl refers to--much too shy, and not quite built or beautiful enough (but just BARELY), not to mention totally ignorant of the pop culture and references that are the local lingua franca. But that made me feel outside of gay culture only until I knew another less-visible facet of the culture. Note: I don’t condemn or hate the former scene--it can play role for a lot of folks; it’s just not for me--so, no, I’m not comfortable there--for those who are, great.

Most of my friends are gay, but our culture is a different one, but it’s still GAY. (And we're all downtown city dwellers--so don't tar all urbanites with one brush) The block I live on is about 40% gay--and that’s a culture too: gay guys in the prime of life (over 35) in the city. When I go to Rehoboth (for those far away, it’s the Mid-Atlantic’s answer to Provincetown), I’m not in the obvious “scene” of young bathing and bebopping beauties (even if I can admire a nice bod at a distance) but in a scene that’s no less real even if less visible, one of great people who live and vacation there, and who are really nice and friendly and VERY gay--folks I have things in common with (including and in addition to an attraction to men). And I LOVE that gay culture; it’s very relaxing because I can drop pretenses and just be me (like I really can’t in a majority straight world without being outrageous).

One could make a comparison to the various “cultures” evident on lpsg.org--but I’ve droned on long enough and I’m new here anyway, so whadda I know.

PS. Oh yeah, along with fortiesfun and mickstl I regret the loss of our friend Mr. Logjam's gallery too

 

[LeeEJ]

Oh yeah? Those are awfully expensive lamps and firewood!

Not when you buy 'em at a pawn shop (their proper home).

:biggrin1: :tongue:

 

[lpsgfan2007]

For me, my avoidance of gay culture probably has to do with defining me.

Homosexuality is a part of me, but not the total (or even majority) of me. It's not even one of the top 5 things that I am.

Gay culture seems to hold sexual orientation as the defining element of a person. Part of it seems to stem from a "safety in numbers" situation just like other cultures such as Black Culture and the Boricua Culture. If I'm "out" around other similar "out" people, I won't be ridiculed. And then, as OP said, the ridicule comes from factions within the "out" group.

People in tight groups tend to become discriminatory as to who they let in. My personal example: I went barhopping in Atlanta with a friend. We went to a Macho/Semi-leather bar called the Eagle. The regulars were all laughing at a group of very effeminate gay cheerleaders that were there. Instead of being inclusive, they already had their pack and were wary of the new people in their space that didn't fit the mold.

I'm no scientist/philosopher/sociologist/psychiatrist so the above is just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

 

[DC_DEEP]

Not when you buy 'em at a pawn shop (their proper home).

Oh my, that's some serious acrimony you got goin there.:wink:

 

[CPearl]

I have found many gay men become victims of this culture and the cult of beauty. They often are over sexed, over drugged, over gym toned, over surgically enhanced, and over accessorized in the pursuit of trying to fit in and attact sexual partners. Many enjoy this culture and find it fulfilling. I unfortunately do not. I don't have much in common with my gay city cousins. Although I have been happily active in gay organizations I never was a part of this culture nor care to be. I think most gay men in this country live outside this culture by their choosing or grow out of it because it ultimately isn't who they really are. Some adopt it wholeheartedly. Were do you fit in?

I would describe this as gay 'pop' culture - a fraction of our amazingly rich and diverse community. Unfortunately, it is the one that gets the most attention. After all, it's not 'sexy' to cover long-term relationships, the great appreciation and patronage of the arts, the cherished homes and intellectually stimulating gatherings of intelligent, vital, gay men.

 

[novavista84102]

Here in Salt Lake City seems to have 2 main groups. One group is into the "perfect everythring" homes, gardens, bodies ect. The other group drive trucks, are clueless about interior decorating, and do their own framing, drywalling, ect. I'm repeatedly threatened with them revoking my 'gay card' (in a joking way) for belonging to the later group. Nope, just a regular guy in jeans and a t-shirt. I don't own anything that can't get stuffed in a washing maching, no dry cleaning!

 

[Matthew]

I'm not for splinter groups and special rights. I guess there's a fine line between equal rights and special rights.

Special rights??? What do you mean by that?

 

[witchway]

I've never let anyone dictate to me what being gay is suppose to be and I never will! I'm just me and I like hangin' with my friends (hetero and homo) drinking beer, smokin' a little gunja, and not worrying about what everone else is going to think about it! I'm just being myself! So many guys that I know here in Germany are also caught up in this so called "gay culture" and are only pretending to enjoy it for fear they won't get any more ass!:wink: I've never been into that scene and I get more than my fair share! If your into it more power to you. If your not, even more power to YOU!!:biggrin1:

 

[DC_DEEP]

Special rights??? What do you mean by that?

"Special rights" is the panacea-panic phrase used by those who feel threatened by truly equal rights.

 

[yngjock20]

I don't like stereotypes of any kind...including gay stereotypes. They just bother me because they're all annoying. When people lose sight of the individual and conform to one specific thought, act or deed it's like abandoning your right to freedom. Okay, not really, but it just creates mindless drones who only wear one thing, go one place, or like one type of person and that's not what the world is about. It's about loving everyone's differences. So, yeah...I guess I do dislike gay culture to an extent.

 

[rawbone8]

One of my pals explained to me how he needed to scope the field to see which part of the community he "fit" when he migrated to the city from a small town. In his early 20s, newly out, and not knowing a lot of people, he experimented attending different social scenes and concluded that he felt out of place in most. That's not unexpected for any newcomer.

His described a variety of social groups and the distinguishing features of each subculture, and how his currency was pretty low in the pecking order generally because of his appearance and perhaps an overt small town level of sophistication. I told him his quest reminded me of high school where people form tribes and try out the persona that brings them some degree of currency and security based on inclusion (or exclusion).

He just about exploded laughing in agreement.

He eventually found his niche and earned the respect that he sought. His rite of passage could have been the basis for a great magazine article.

 

[DC_DEEP]

I have seen a lot of what is described in many of the posts above. I guess the difference for me is that I don't TRY to fit in; if I encounter a group and I fit in naturally, that's fine. If I don't fit in, I don't make the attempt because they are likely not people I would want to spend time with, anyway.

 

[Onslow]

Yup thats me. Anybody else out there? Care to elaborate as to why you feel that way?

Gay culture? Is that like you know like (flouncing around flitting wrists like a deranged queen) isth gay culture when there's too much day old smegma on the underside of the foreskin?

I wouldn't say I hate gay culture, I just don't understand what a lot of fellow queers get so hot and bothered about. But then again, the things which get them all excited seem to often be the same things that women get excited about or even heterosexual men get rambunctious about. Is RAMbunctious a word more often found in gay culture? If it is, then more power to it and maybe we can make that part of the foundation of Gay Culture.

I do not care for prissy sorts--male or female, queersexual, heterosexual or bisexual or asexual. However I can't say as how I have found any one trait or behavior to be exclusive to any one grouping.



What the hell is gay culture anyway? Isn't it really something which has been contrived to be thought of as existing, created by a bunch of narrow minded individuals? In all honesty the sterotype queers of television and movies are not persons I run into very often. I guess I dislike the media portrayal of gay culture (whatever that may be). (I also don't do the hate thing--detest, despise, loathe, abhor; but, not hate)

There are good looking preening well dressed men wearing cologne and shaving their chests and going to the gym and attending wine and cheese parties and the such who are Homsexual, bisexual or heterosexual or even asexual (possibly also transexual--transgender? however the persons I know who are are a man who is not excessive in any way and some females who are proper young ladies and not excessive in any way--they are people--just people. Regular people.) I know heterosexual men who color their hair and queers who would never dream of doing so. Queers who are heavily into sports and heterosexual men who don't have a clue about who the Toronto Maple Leafs are.

I have no idea where the idea of gay culture came from. Oh, that's right, it came from the media--and primarily that is where it came from and it's all a bunch of nonsense. Next you'll tell me rabbits or from Jupiter.

 

[earllogjam]

Lots of good reading here. Thanks guys.

I suppose I should clarify what I meant by "gay culture" - it is everything in the gay community that revolves around the pursuit of sex. It includes all the fashions, boutiques, attitudes, sexual cliques, bars, clubs, gyms, tanning salons, day spas, dance clubs, and gay newspapers and magazines all which feel off each other. Surprisingly it isn't very different from city to city or from country to country for that matter.

It is a culture based solely on sex and the pursuit of sex. So naturally it creates and perpetuates its own value system based on superficial things like looks, age, race, dick size...etc. It tends to exclude straight people and divides gay men into meat types, twinkmeat, bearmeat, musclemeat, blackmeat, asianmeat, leathermeat..etc. So it is not at all inclusive or generous. It is a culture that's held together by sexual attraction. Ironically that glue that holds us together is the same glue that keeps us apart.

I do, however, respect it and I am glad it's there because it has given me a lot of freedoms as a gay man, a place to play and has carved out a niche for us in society, but I've come to realize, especially getting older that it's not a very nurturing or fulfilling place. And after realizing that sex wasn't the most important thing in my life, the culture had very little to offer. I wanted a satisfying meal not canapes and cocktails.

FF, A., mickstl -Thanks for stroking my ego but I found myself snubbing people I didn't even know and that's just not my style - so I took it down. I may be whipping it out at the troff again though. Everybody's gotta pee.

 

[fortiesfun]

FF, A., mickstl -Thanks for stroking my ego but I found myself snubbing people I didn't even know and that's just not my style - so I took it down. I may be whipping it out at the troff again though. Everybody's gotta pee.

Be sure and give me a little notice! :wink:

 

[losangelestim]

i hate the desperation of santa monica boulevard and other gay ghettoes. i loathe the majority of gay guys who have "come out" but are still in a closet of self-hatred. and even tho i'm one of the butchest fags i know i hate it when i see guys describe themselves as "straight-acting". that part of the culture i avoid. on the other hand i love the leather scene and gay pig sex scene. there's nothing like it.

 

[earllogjam]

one of great people who live and vacation there, and who are really nice and friendly and VERY gay--folks I have things in common with (including and in addition to an attraction to men). And I LOVE that gay culture; it’s very relaxing because I can drop pretenses and just be me (like I really can’t in a majority straight world without being outrageous).

Yeah, I love that world too A.

 

[amhersthungboi]

Are you gay and not really into gay culture? Why doesn't it appeal to you?

There are many neighborhoods within cities where gays have created their own communities - the Castro, Chelsea, Boystown, WeHo, Hillcrest, South Beach, Provincetown....etc. and a gay culture has developed. These concentrations of gay men have led the way for gay rights, visibility and gay consciousness but there is another side that isn't so desirable. The "culture" is an exclusionary culture of sex, and all the empty superficiality and petty discrimination that goes along with it. Racism, "lookism" and ageism are pervasive within these communities where sex is the primary reason for being.

I have found many gay men become victims of this culture and the cult of beauty. They often are over sexed, over drugged, over gym toned, over surgically enhanced, and over accessorized in the pursuit of trying to fit in and attact sexual partners. Many enjoy this culture and find it fulfilling. I unfortunately do not. I don't have much in common with my gay city cousins. Although I have been happily active in gay organizations I never was a part of this culture nor care to be. I think most gay men in this country live outside this culture by their choosing or grow out of it because it ultimately isn't who they really are. Some adopt it wholeheartedly. Were do you fit in?

Bingo. My sentiments exactly.

 

[earllogjam]

One of my pals explained to me how he needed to scope the field to see which part of the community he "fit" when he migrated to the city from a small town. In his early 20s, newly out, and not knowing a lot of people, he experimented attending different social scenes and concluded that he felt out of place in most. That's not unexpected for any newcomer.

His described a variety of social groups and the distinguishing features of each subculture, and how his currency was pretty low in the pecking order generally because of his appearance and perhaps an overt small town level of sophistication. I told him his quest reminded me of high school where people form tribes and try out the persona that brings them some degree of currency and security based on inclusion (or exclusion).

He just about exploded laughing in agreement.

He eventually found his niche and earned the respect that he sought. His rite of passage could have been the basis for a great magazine article.

Haha -You know rawbone, I think it really is like another high school nightmare for most young gay men. You get to live your adolescence twice -first as a poser in high school, and again as yourself. Both can be excruciating but the latter is a pain you can't live without.