Gays Yet Again Found To Have Statistically Larger Penises As A Group

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by cocktaste, Jun 16, 2008.

  1. cocktaste

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    Even after all these years, they're still trying to figure out why. All in all, who cares? I'm just glad that they do. ;)

    What does gay look like? Science keeps trying to figure that out

    Finding common biological traits -- things like hair growth patterns, penis size, family makeup -- might one day shed light on the origins of sexual orientation.

    By Regina Nuzzo, Special to The Times
    June 16, 2008
    Last month, Sen. John McCain dropped by “Saturday Night Live,” drawing laughs from his promise, if elected president, to fight expensive federal projects -- such as, he spoofed, a Department of Defense device to "jam gaydar."

    That was a joke. But some scientists are, in a way, working on gaydar, the supposed ability to discern whether a person is homosexual by reading subtle cues from their appearance. Just don't refer to it that way. The preferred term is "sexual orientation correlates."

    These scientists are searching for innate traits that might not appear to be related to sexual orientation or even to standard clich├ęs. So measuring a subject's shoe size is permissible; asking about ownership of Barbra Streisand albums would be cheating. Some inborn traits might be expected if homosexuality is -- as most scientists believe -- rooted in biology, and they might provide clues about the biological origins of sexual orientation.

    Finding and solidifying these links isn't easy. Studies contradict each other, and some promising paths don't pan out. (A link between male homosexuality and finger lengths isn't holding up, and a claim that gays have distinctive fingerprint ridge patterns is largely discredited.) Scientists don't always agree on how to interpret the results, and more progress has been made with regard to men than to women.

    * Big brothers. Study after study -- including one of 87,000 British men published last year -- has found that gay men have more older brothers than straight men do. Only big brothers count. Lesbians don't show such patterns.

    The numbers: Each older brother will increase a man's chances of being gay by 33%, says Ray Blanchard of the University of Toronto, an expert on the "big-brother effect." That's not as dramatic as it might sound. A man's chance of being gay is pretty low to begin with -- perhaps as low as 2% (lowered from 10% by researchers in the early 1990s). So having one older brother ups the chance to only about 2.6%.

    What it might mean: Psychological influences are probably not at work, because the pattern holds even for gay men who weren’t raised with their older brothers. Instead, the mother's womb might be key. After giving birth to a boy, her immune system might create antibodies to foreign, male proteins in her bloodstream. Subsequent sons in the womb could be exposed to these "anti-boy" antibodies, which might affect sexual development in the brain.

    Accordingly, you'd expect the percentage of gay men in a society to vary depending on demographic differences in family size: One study calculated that a one-child-per-family law would reduce male homosexuality by about 29% from current levels.

    * Left hand vs. right hand. The hand you use to sign your name might have something to do with what gender you are drawn to.

    The numbers: More lefties -- or at least more somewhat-ambidextrous folks -- crop up in the gay population than among straight people, several studies have shown. An analysis of more than 23,000 men and women from North America and Europe in 2000 found that being non-right-handed seems to increase a man's chances of being gay by about 34%, and a woman's by about 90%.

    What it might mean: One guess is that different-than-normal levels of testosterone in the womb -- widely theorized to play a role in determining eventual sexual orientation -- could nudge a fetus toward brain organization that favors left-handedness as well as same-sex attraction.

    Another theory is that development of a fetus might be disturbed by factors such as a mother's illness, steering the fetus into being less than strictly right-handed -- and, in some cases, less than strictly heterosexual.

    It's a politically sticky idea, says Qazi Rahman of Queen Mary-University of London. "It's essentially saying that homosexual preference . . . is some kind of biological error," he says. (It might tick off the left-handed folks too.)

    * Hair whorl. How does your hair grow? This might reflect your sexual orientation.

    The numbers: A 2004 study of nearly 500 men -- 272 on Delaware's Rehoboth Beach, popular with gay men, 200 on a beach without that reputation -- found that hair on the heads of men on the gay beach was 3.5 times more likely to grow in a counterclockwise direction. (Scalp hair typically resembles a clockwise-rotating typhoon.)

    What it might mean: One theory is that a single gene might influence hair-whorl direction, left-right brain organization and, somehow, sexual orientation. Exactly how it would do all this, however, is anyone's guess.

    The study, although intriguing, suffers from a lack of scientific rigor. The author walked around while on vacation, collecting hair-whorl observations on men from a discreet distance. He didn't know anyone's sexual orientation for sure, and didn't objectively examine any scalps up close. Rahman's group is attempting to replicate the results in the lab.

    * Penis size. If exposure to testosterone in the womb influences sexual orientation, scientists reckon that straight and gay people would differ in body parts strongly affected by testosterone, such as the penis.

    The numbers: Anthony Bogaert of Brock University in Ontario and his colleagues re-analyzed data on 5,000 gay and straight men from sexologist Alfred Kinsey's famous files, collected from the 1930s to the 1960s. The results, published in 1999, showed that gay men had longer, thicker penises than did straight men: on average, about 6.5 inches long and 4.95 inches around when erect, versus 6.1 inches long and 4.8 inches around for straight men.

    What it might mean: Scientists don't really know. One guess is that gay men could have been exposed to an odd mix of hormones in the womb. Testosterone levels might peak early, causing enhanced penis growth, then drop off later in pregnancy -- leading to some feminine characteristics.

    There's one catch: Kinsey asked his subjects to measure themselves at home and mail a postcard recording their dimensions. It is within the realm of imagination that not every man reported the perfect truth. If everyone lied, the essence of the results wouldn't change. It's a problem only if gay men were more factually creative than straight men.

    Bogaert says that all the measures -- length and circumference, erect and flaccid -- seem to plausibly line up, which probably wouldn't be the case if the men had tacked on a vanity half-inch or so. Also, a smaller, 1960s study (in which a physician did the measuring) backs up the findings. As to whether gay or straight men are more likely to exaggerate about penis size, "It would be an interesting master's thesis project," Bogaert muses.

    However, the next frontier in this kind of research seems to lie elsewhere -- with subtle differences in how gay and straight brains navigate new cities, respond to erotic movies and react to the scent of sweat and urine.


    What does gay look like? Science keeps trying to figure that out - Los Angeles Times
     
  2. cocktaste

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    One of the many that started appearing years ago --


    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif] [/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif][FONT=times, times new roman, serif]Research says erect gay penises are bigger[/FONT]
    [FONT=times, times new roman, serif]Uncovered Kinsey Report data show homosexual members have hetero ones by a head.[/FONT]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]- - - - - - - - - - - -
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]By Hank Hyena[/FONT]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]Nov. 4, 1999[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]Six inches is the average length of a male erection, right? More or less? More (6.32 inches) if you're gay, apparently. And less (5.99) if you're straight. Stiff homosexual organs are one-third of an inch longer, claims an article titled "The Relation Between Sexual Orientation and Penile Size" in the June Archives of Sexual Behavior. [/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]The phallus findings are based on archived data from 5,122 measurements of men's schlongs obtained by the Kinsey Report from 1938-1963. [/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]But isn't it penile chubbiness that matters more in sexual pleasure? Heteros lose this contest, too. The straight circumference is 4.80 inches, while gays wield a stout 4.95. Dr. Anthony Bogaert of Brock University in Ontario, Canada and Dr. Scott Hershberger of California State University-Long Beach co-authored the recent study, which is part of a larger study on the origins of sexual orientation and behavior.[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]Reached by phone at his Ontario office, Bogaert generously answered my most probing questions about the penile research.[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]Why on Earth would gay guys be heavier hung?[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]"It might have something to do with prenatal hormones that affect the structure and size of genitalia and certain structures of the brain that ultimately affect sexual orientation," Bogaert said. "If so, this would lend support to theories that believe there are biological factors affecting sexual orientation."[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]Did Kinsey researchers actually measure the arched staffs of their subjects?[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]"No," the Canadian admitted. "The subjects reported themselves, either by mailing their measurements in, or by reporting their size to an interviewer."[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]Men lie about their dimensions, Bogaert acknowledged, but in his opinion, this doesn't explain the data. "The size discrepancy might have to do with 'reporting bias' if gay men are more likely to exaggerate the size of their penis. But we don't think that's the explanation. There's evidence that heterosexuals are as likely to exaggerate as homosexuals."[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]As for plans to reenact the original study with excited, contemporary wieners, Bogaert was doubtful.[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]"I probably won't do additional research in this area," he said. "I have other projects, and besides, it's too expensive."[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]Oddly enough, this astounding and controversial discovery has been kept zippered up by the majority of media. Queer columnist Dan Savage commented on it in one of his September columns and the Evening Standard, the London newspaper, noted it on Aug. 24, but generally, it looks like gay vs. straight cock size is a topic that the prudish press finds way too big to handle.[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]That's why the story reared its head here, where the whole world is naked.
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]salon.com | Nov. 4, 1999[/FONT]
    [/FONT]
     
  3. Pendlum

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    What about all the people who don't admit they are gay? Straight people don't have a problem saying they are straight. :tongue:
     
  4. cocktaste

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    Penis galore! :biggrin1:
     
  5. TurkeyWithaSunburn

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    Hasn't Kinsey's penis length reports been largely discredited, for both non scientific sampling and non-objective observers?

    Mostly college kids and the penis lengths were all self measured by the participants.
     
  6. cocktaste

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    More than the Kinsey studies have been used. This issue has been written about for years.

    It may have to do with hormone levels.
     
  7. Brillig47

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    The latest issue of New Scientist (UK) includes new data derived from MRI brain scans showing that there are measurable differences in the amounts of certain types of brain tissue in gay men, straight men, gay women and straight women. Lesbians, surprise surprise show patterns in common with straight men, and gay men with straight women. It's all attributed to different levels of exposure to the hormone testosterone in utero.

    Which was always suspected, apparently.
     
  8. Slingshot

    Slingshot New Member

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    I wonder if the general level of testosterone is higher in gay males than in straight males? That would correlate with larger penis size, I would think (the presence of testosterone affects penis growth, although there are a number of other factors).

    One hypothesis regarding the gay male/straight male situation is that the brains of gay males are less sensitive to the effect of testosterone, which means that in utero development is altered, leading to the loss of certain male behaviours, eg seeking females. But the brain is the organ that tells the testes how much testosterone to produce, via the gonadotrophin signal. If the brain is less sensitive to testosterone, it will allow a higher level of testosterone before it says, "that's enough". Consequently, a higher level would manifest as slightly larger genitals, among other things. Ie, less effect on the brain => more effect on the body. Are gay males naturally hairier, more muscular, more prone to male-pattern baldness, etc? The data listed above doesn't seem to have identified this, so maybe I'm on the wrong track.
     
  9. cocktaste

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    Well, gay men stereotypically are well groomed to attract mates.
     
  10. B_Think_Kink

    B_Think_Kink New Member

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    I would think that about true. Most of my gay friends are really hung.
     
  11. D_Rock_ N_Hardon

    D_Rock_ N_Hardon Account Disabled

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    one third of an inch? hardly a huge difference
     
  12. B_socalstud89

    B_socalstud89 New Member

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    I agree with Josh
     
  13. Grindin

    Grindin Active Member

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    That's interesting...but like Josh said, it's barely a difference.
     
  14. Boondocksaints

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    [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]"No," the Canadian admitted. "The subjects reported themselves, either by mailing their measurements in, or by reporting their size to an interviewer."

    That makes the bigger penis assertion obsolete.
    [/FONT]
     
  15. EagleCowboy

    EagleCowboy Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I suspect it's all AOL inches. :biggrin1:
     
  16. cocktaste

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    Do you understand population wise what one third means for one group?
     
  17. Lito

    Lito New Member

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    Like if I needed another reason to fit in. Hey, I might as well get comfortable with the whole idea =D
     
  18. B_socalstud89

    B_socalstud89 New Member

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