Genealogy

chico8

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Wonderboy said:
I don't want to pay for any site and isn't it entirely possible that they've made information up and it may not be factually or historically correct?

It is interesting though, me likey.

The best sites are those that have scanned the actual document and allow you to view it. Census documents are pretty good as far as accuracy goes but they're really only the beginning and they only go back to the 1850s or so. cyndislist.com is a great general resource, she lists over 250,000 genealogical links and there are a number that deal with the accuracy of various databases, websites, etc. One of the biggest problems is when someone quotes someone else who quoted someone else whose information was wrong.

I've got about a dozen ancestor obituaries and they've been very helpful but every single one has either spelling errors or other mistakes. Genealogy is like history, it's an art, not a science. Keep an open mind and remember that just as in journalism, every fact should be verified independently. Oral family histories are also very suspect when it comes to accuracy. One of my Dad's cousins committed suicide in 1950 and so far I have 4 versions of why he did it.
 

Gisella

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Dr. Dilznick said:

Which 'white' Brasilians are you talking about???:confused:

As I say my family has books from paternal sides...but for sure I and many Brasilians has this Jewish lost identity and if you study about Shephardins the were from the 'dark' Europe plus Northern Africa...My maternal Greatgrandpa was a Mulato that married with an white blue eyed woman with Jewish ancestry...for sure Brasil is a great place to study missigenation of races and etc...and most of African descendents in Brasil will have an ideia which part of Africa they came from as slaves...(I already posted here somewhere..)

You will find in my family all the mulatos and the whites...My father is a white blue eyed man in his days called the 'black hair Paul Newman" :tongue: and my mother is a very interesting mix of darker between white, black and Native...her sister has very diferent features and look like Native...

You can call white Brasilians like Americans called only with you travel to communities in Brasil that were locked in themselves, some Germans and Polish and etc communities...and most of us are very mix...and to call Jewish 'white' is nonsense to me..bcause there are lots of Jewish that are black.

The situation about Jewish ancestry and the madness of Inquisition in my view is not to be look as black or white issue. At least in Brasil the African influence is all over the place and when Nigerians go to specific region of Brasil they can find their exactly food and dances and custumes there. It was not lost or forgotten just go there and have a look and see. Even the way Catholicism is practice in Brasil is not like in many places bcause they incorporate African entities to christian Saints...is very unique.

I dont think is 'right' or accurate to people analize ones cultures from outside in..particularly a black American bcause here many see things as black and white and may want to export this view to others that do not have the same experience or view of themselves.There are racial issues in this country running deep that is very unique to US own history.

I take issues with countries that want to explain to others their culture..seems that the 'experts' from powerful colonizers nations always feel they are the ones to be teaching another countries..and this experts as much contributions they give by research that seem very arrogant and know all..and experts comes from all colors within..they may be black or white or whatever experts they are or any field they are talking from. Believe me, we do have our own experts, for sure they need mostly $$$ help for researchs and etc but they are excelent and native experts from our many cultures in this world. I take issue with any expert or 'missionary' that dont do homework as 'entering' in others cultures..walking so 'freely' as their own.

As I say many times before: I do embrace all my roots. And I do have many of it going on...:biggrin1:
 

Gisella

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:cool: Thank you Tripod.. as much as Im flattered... dont exagerate...:tongue:

Rawbone...:rolleyes: I was imaginig you as a lost Che in US..and you are a comando Scot after all..well, you are cool anyways..:tongue:

And Shelby I kind knew of your western ways..soo very cool and romatized in the Farwest movies...:tongue: :cool:

Very nice topic Stronzo.:smile:

We are very cool and unique people.:cool:
 

Lordpendragon

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There is a programme on the BBC called "who do you think you are". They take well known people and follow their ancestry. It has produced some remarkable and emotional programmes. One of the latest is of our lovely Colin Jackson, the ex 110m hurdles champion and world record holder.

As a black man he found that he was genetically the result of a slave in the West Indies being "bred" by/with the plantation owner. It is an acutely difficult situation and he handles it with the dignity that has made him so popular here.

Having said that, you should remember that within a period of 300 years we have all had someone born "the wrong side of the bed". It's a statistical probability and if you are from Boston, its more likely every 30 years or so.

The male line is one thing, but as Rawbone's maths shows there is so much more. I would also like to reiterate what the Stronz says about talking to elderly relatives. Typically we remember three generations - each time that one goes, it makes it a whole lot more difficult.

I have already helped one LPSGer with their search while they were over here in the UK. So if you are interested just PM me, I will try to help. Please bear in mind though that I do have a day job, a serious sex life and I am now also a student.
 

ManiacalMadMan

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I have no interest in genealogy Me and my sibble were affiliated into a happy family at an early age (We are adopted)and I have no idea what my actual heritage is, nor do I care. I am a human being and that is all what really matters People get to caught up in labels whether it be on sexuality, religion, or ethnic background What does it matter if the main purpose in life is for all of us creatures to get along with each other? By cannibalizing all shreds of decency with Irish/French/German/Bulgarian etc. bites it brings about a Better than/Worse than mentality in people and there is no good and that. It pisses me off enough that people look at me and tell me I am white or that I look Jewish or Greek or aNy of another of things I have to ask what does it matter? No matter what ,my background I am still ME.
 

koval

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I'm into genealogy and consider it an interesting hobby/past time to do. I started it just to find some more history about my father's side of the family and with time and patience I managed to trace that part of my family lineage back 10 generations to 1653 :biggrin1:

I even manage to find a skeleton or two in my family closet so to speak :eek:.

One thing though 'Wonderboy', although the surnames beginning with "Fitz, Mac (Mc) & O' " relate to a family clan/name, the German/Dutch term "Von & Van" (which should be spelt von/van) tend to refer to a location rather than a family name.
 

Dr. Dilznick

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Gisella,

Why do you keep trying to insinuate that my goal is to convert people to my viewpoint? You portray me as some aspiring tyrant. I'm not as ignorant as you think I am--any remotely educated person should be familiar with colonialism in Latin America and Africa and the way it set those places back. Also, I'm familiar with Brazil's brand of racism. Spent time in São Paulo + Santos, Rio, Belo Horizonte, Porto Alegre, Recife, Salvador, Fortaleza and Curitiba.

P.S. it *is* a Brazilian study, plumcake:

The ancestry of Brazilian mtDNA lineages.

Alves-Silva J, da Silva Santos M, Guimaraes PE, Ferreira AC, Bandelt HJ, Pena SD, Prado VF.

Contact information: Prof. Sérgio D. J. Pena, Departamento de Bioquímica e Imunologia, Instituto de Ciências Biológicas, Universidade Federal de Minas Gerais, Caixa Postal 486, Belo Horizonte, MG, Brazil 30161-970. Email: spena@dcc.ufmg.br
Gisella said:
As I say many times before: I do embrace all my roots.
I wasn't aware of that, but I'm glad we can come to total agreement in this thread. ;)
 

Gisella

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Dr. Dilznick

My way of expressing is like this...and when you resume my post about discovering and talking about Jewish roots as "white Brasilian" you dont know what you are talking about, even whe you say you have been to Brasil...why can you call my family history and others as 'white brasilian'...you dont know my family...

Brasilians for sure have a brand of racism and any brand of it from any color is no good. Of course I know you are educated man. And must know that Brasil is much divided bcause of classes and the majority of Brasilians are poor. It is strange that the US hasnt resolve their own dealings with racism and go to other people lands to analyze it and file it. Let native people of many roots resolve and dialogue by themselves. For sure people study but please dont talk about you dont really know about as I cant about your own life.

I dont want to paint my country with rose lenses..but I do have issues with an black American that may have issues with racism in their own experience in the USA throw this "white brasilian' crap reading my post..yes for me is crap. Bcause I know and experienced and expert of my own family life dinamics. I do not accept black American 'transfers' of their way to look at things to my reality, their experiences of races as Black an white - has nothing to do with my own.

And for sure I was not thinking about you..most of my post - but generalizing the way i feel about how foreigners enter people lands and etc... And i'm not talking about Brasilian experts and their finds. Great bcause more they find out more I will discover about 'me' as I already wrote about my roots in the racism post here some where...European, African an Native Brasilian.

And this one I reckon something that i put aside..my Jewish roots and acknowlege it here as I did with my others before. And again you do not have the right to classify my family as you wish: black or white.

Thank you...:smile:

Ps; Dont forget when i write I may sound agressive to you..:confused: but Im just being emotional and passionate. :rolleyes:


Dr. Dilznick said:
Gisella,

Why do you keep trying to insinuate that my goal is to convert people to my viewpoint? You portray me as some aspiring tyrant. I'm not as ignorant as you think I am--any remotely educated person should be familiar with colonialism in Latin America and Africa and the way it set those places back. Also, I'm familiar with Brazil's brand of racism. Spent time in São Paulo + Santos, Rio, Belo Horizonte, Porto Alegre, Recife, Salvador, Fortaleza and Curitiba.

P.S. it *is* a Brazilian study, plumcake:


I wasn't aware of that, but I'm glad we can come to total agreement in this thread. ;)
 

Wonderboy

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I thought Van was daughter of and Von was son of? That's what I remember from history class but it could be wrong.

I was reminded that O'... also represents belonging to a clan, its probably a contraction of...of like 12 o'clock (12 of the clock or of the hour)

I'll Cyndislist.

This is interesting.

NB a lot of black people descended from slaves have some white genealogy since a lot of slave masters did have sex with their slaves or 'breed' them...I don't know whether or not this happened in Brazil or that the children of such slaves travelled to Brazil. Research it.
 

unknowing

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Great topic Stronzo. I was bitten by the bug when I was 16 and have been working on my tree for thirty years now. My roots are deep in America, back to 1635 in Boston and back to 1618 in Jamestown. What makes it so interesting for me is that, as a history nut, it shows the progression of my family ever westward as a microcosm of the history of the country. They were there in the first frontiers, on the battle lines in the Revolution, in the War of 1812 and the Civil War. They were governors, farmers, drovers, tailors, wagoners, legislators, carpenters and even a couple of US Presidents in the extended family. They founded Boonesboro and Columbia, MO with the Boones. They sat in church pews in Philadelphia with Jefferson and Washington. They are buried in the cemetery near Franklin. They pushed the frontier into Ohio, Indiana, Tennessee, Arkansas, Texas. They abandoned their families to light out for the California gold rush of 1849. When George Washington's grandfather jumped ship to settle in the Virginia tidewater, my ancestor was there to greet him. My ancestors were the first white owners of land in Texas that is now GWB's ranch. They were the Lincolns' intimates. They followed the Oregon trail and they were in the Oklahoma Land Run of 1889. My Chickasaw ancestors were uprooted and moved to the Indian Nations so the white men could have their land, and my white ancestors fought Comanches on the Texas frontier. My white ancestors in many lines held slaves, and I'm deeply humbled by that fact.
All of the above things are facts that I found out about my ancestors---how could I not get hooked? Thanks for the thread------Mark
 

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ManiacalMadMan said:
I have no interest in genealogy Me and my sibble were affiliated into a happy family at an early age (We are adopted)and I have no idea what my actual heritage is, nor do I care. I am a human being and that is all what really matters People get to caught up in labels whether it be on sexuality, religion, or ethnic background What does it matter if the main purpose in life is for all of us creatures to get along with each other? By cannibalizing all shreds of decency with Irish/French/German/Bulgarian etc. bites it brings about a Better than/Worse than mentality in people and there is no good and that. It pisses me off enough that people look at me and tell me I am white or that I look Jewish or Greek or aNy of another of things I have to ask what does it matter? No matter what ,my background I am still ME.

Why do you let yourself get so upset about the issue? We all came from somewhere and there's nothing wrong in knowing about it and since most Americans are genetically mixed, it's only common to ask where a person's ancestors came from.
 

rawbone8

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re : Fitz

I found an explanation for that misunderstood meaning of Fitz I posed as a question earlier. As Wonderboy pointed out Fitz as prefix means "son of", but in the case of the royals it was used differently and came to be associated with a level of legitimacy.

from http://www.answers.com/topic/family-name

Fitz: a Norman-French word derived from the Latin word filius (“son”). It was used in patronymics by thousands of men in the early Norman period in Ireland (e.g. fitz Stephen, fitz Richard, fitz Robert, fitz William) and only on some occasions did it become used as an actual surname, the most famous example being the FitzGerald Earls of Kildare. Yet well into the 17th and 18th century it was used in certain areas dominated by the Old English of Ireland in its original form, as a patronymic. The Tribes of Galway were especially good at conserving this form, with examples such as John fitz John Bodkin and Michael Lynch fitz Arthur, used even as late as the early 1800’s. Despite claims to the contrary, the use of Fitz in a surname never denoted illegitimacy. This misunderstanding may have originated because a number of illegitimate members of the British royal family were given such surnames: some of the illegitimate children of King Charles II were named FitzCharles or FitzRoy (“son of the King”); those of King James II were named FitzJames; those of Prince William, Duke of Clarence and St Andrews (later King William IV) were named FitzClarence.
 

Oncamale28

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i pretty much know mine: 1/2 danish (both grandparents on mothers side grandfather born in Denmark, grandmother's parents born in Denmark, she was born in USA); Fathers side; Grandfather Chech ( his father immigrated), Grandmother Irish/Scotch ( Moss, Chesbrough) early American immigrants
 

ManiacalMadMan

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chico8 said:
Why do you let yourself get so upset about the issue? We all came from somewhere and there's nothing wrong in knowing about it and since most Americans are genetically mixed, it's only common to ask where a person's ancestors came from.
Quite clearly you are not actually READING the nonsense people have been writing here.

I am not upset or bothered by persons who have a genuine interest in their heritage, what I do not like about the entire heritage through genealogy matter is the fuckfaced idiots who use it as a way of holding themselves up as better than others