Genealogy

B_Stronzo

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ManiacalMadMan said:
Quite clearly you are not actually READING the nonsense people have been writing here.

MMM-

I posted this thread (just so you understand my intent) in an effort to bring the board together in a commonality of connection through something we all share; an historical past.

Can we just fucking lighten up here?:rolleyes:

The board, just prior to that, had been spiraling down to a polarization in which many - including myself - had taken part. It was as the Italians say "basta cosi" (enough already). Therefore I thought that since we all come from somewhere it would be a way for each of us to (if interested as I stated initially) to share what they knew about their own individual history.

Early on in the thread you came in to state you had no interest as is your prerogative. Good for you. Now it appears you do have interest - negative interest.

But many here (and certainly it's true of me) have a keen interest in genealogy as you'll note by the varying responses of all kinds irrespective of nationality and ethnicity.

Seems we do have something pervasively alike: we all come from a history uniquely our own which unites us in the greater spectrum of humankind.

I am not upset or bothered by persons who have a genuine interest in their heritage, what I do not like about the entire heritage through genealogy matter is the fuckfaced idiots who use it as a way of holding themselves up as better than others

I'm not sure what you mean by 'heritage through genealogy'. But if you suggest that it doesn't exist I say that's untrue. I have a heritage that gives me a sense of self. One of the things I value most about my upbringing is that it was implied throughout it that "you come from fine people". Sometimes it was outright stated. But it was not stated as arrogance. It was a standard to which to aspire. And when, if tempted to make a questionable choice growing up, I found myself in a moral dilemma I recall consciously thinking "my mother and father would be ashamed of me". It's made an immense difference to my life.

Among my own direct ancestors/collateral relatives I have:

Bastards (literally and figuratively)
Colonial American Governors
Revolutionary War Heroes
American Statesmen
Ne'er-do-well privateers
French Huguenots who found safe harbor on these shores
Lesbians and at least three generations of homosexual males who precede me

(and that just touches on the varying types of those I've discovered)

Many who've posted here appear to have a historical past in which they find a sense of history and identity too.

I haven't seen one poster who's 'used it as a way of holding themselves up as better than' anyone. What I've seen is a sharing of differing histories that may (just may mind you if you'll allow it) serve to inform those of us who only know a great deal about our own historical genealogy about a greater reality in those who share their own unique backgrounds.

For instance: I've already learned much from the posts of Gisella and Dr. Dilz about South American ancestries and how the mixing of indigenous peoples and immigrants from Africa and Europe has brought about some of the extremely nifty people we now know as Argentinians, Brazilians, etc...

For you to heave cold water on the thing is, I think, a shitty thing to do.

Here's a thought; if you have no interest in it why not leave the thread to those significantly posting here who do?

Your posts smack of sour grapes.
 

ManiacalMadMan

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Stronzo said:
MMM-

I posted, just so you understand my intent, this thread as a reason to bring the board together in a commonality of connection through something we all share: an historical past.

Can we just fucking lighten up here?:rolleyes:
Fat chance

Stronzo said:
The board, just prior to that, had been spiraling down to a polarization in which many - including myself - had taken part. It was as the Italians say "basta cosi" (enough already). Therefore I thought that since we all come from somewhere it would be a way for each of us to (if interested as I stated initially) to share what they knew about their own individual history.
Really? You didn't expect that to actually move that way now did you? Since you already stated that the place was (in your words sweetheart not mine)spiraling down to a polarization,you knew at least in part that this would only add to that...
Stronzo said:
Early on in the thread you came in to state you had no interest as is your prerogative. Good for you. Now it appears you do have interest - negative interest.
Is a PREogative similar to a PERogative? Anyway, I have no vested interest in knowing about my genealogy but as is my perogative, I can allow mself the thrill of posting my views Nobody forces you to agree with them or adhere to them (although as you are aware,my views are the only correct ones...why? Because I said so and as an adopted person I can claim all heritages as my own which means I am all powerfull and shall be regarded as such If you do not like this...well, tough titties.



Stronzo said:
But many here (and certainly it's true of me) have a keen interest in genealogy as you'll note by the varying responses of all kinds irrespective of and nationalites and ethnicities.
Isn't it true that evenh more than this you enjoy the sound of your own cerebrally limited voice droning on over and over and the plastic sound of your computer keys click click clicking away more than anything that will be said or written which will contradict you? Perfectly okay, but you need to acknowledge and accept that fact.

Stronzo said:
Seems we do have something pervasively alike: we all come from a history uniquely our own which unites us in the greater spectrum of humankind.
I am united in humankind but not through some nonsensical listing of where my mommy and daddy came from


Stronzo said:
I'm not sure what you mean by 'heritage through genealogy'. But if you suggest that it doesn't exist I say that's untrue. I have a heritage that gives me a sense of self. One of the things I value most about myself is that it was implied throughout my upbringing that "you come from fine people". Sometimes it was outright stated. But it was not stated as arrogance. It was a standard to which to aspire. And when, if tempted to make a questionable choice growing up, I found myself in a moral dilemma I recall consciously thinking "my mother and father would be ashamed of me". It's made an immense difference to my life.
Whenever someone holds up their Italian/Iranian/Greek/Plutonian etc. background they are displaying either arrogance or embarrassment and your nonsense of "It was a standard to which to aspire" positively SCREAMS arrogance
Stronzo said:
I haven't seen one poster who's 'used it as a way of holding themselves up as better than' anyone. What I've seen is a sharing of differing histories that For you to heave cold water on the thing is, I think, a shitty thing to do.

Here's a thought; if you have no interest in it why not leave the thread to those significantly posting here who do?

Your posts smack of sour grapes.
Of course when I share what I thought about heritage/genealogy and life in general I was stomped upon but that's f'cking okay I suppose. I stated quite clearly in my initial post that the world would get along much better if all the labeling was dropped. This does not mean ending history, it means ending all categorizations with nationality attachments. History is one thing, listing 25 nationalities is something else. And that's another thing, it is amazing the plethora of clowns here who claim to have been part of the original settlers. Apparently the person who a while back said there are actually only 13 posters here was right since we cannot all be fucking related to the Pilgrims.
As for sour grapes, you will believe whatever you want to you know deep in you inert thoughts (and innermost as well) that I am not stating anything which is untrue.
 

B_Stronzo

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ManiacalMadMan said:
And that's another thing, it is amazing the plethora of clowns here who claim to have been part of the original settlers. Apparently the person who a while back said there are actually only 13 posters here was right since we cannot all be fucking related to the Pilgrims.

Did a little hunting to get numbers for you MMM.

No. We assuredly cannot 'all be fucking related to the Pilgrims' but this article (which includes references and figures from my esteemed colleague and friend Gary Boyd Roberts of New England Historic Genealogical Society) should help give you a perspective to the roughly 30 million Americans who are.

My own boyfriend (who's family comes from New York State and has been there generationally since just post the Revolutionary War) has two lines to that infamous group too. We're alot more closely related (many of us) than you'd like to grant.

Much as I realise it's au courant to bash the original European settlers to this land you need to keep a perspective about you. And much as you may not like it I'm descended from seven of said Pilgrims and two of them twice over.

Do you have to like it? No. Will I deny it to make you feel more secure? No again.

Now can we please just exchange information (those of us who have something real to contribute)? :rolleyes:
 

Lex

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Stronzo -- this was a really nice thread and I (and others) appreciate your starting it.

ManiacalMadMan -- one of the great things here is that even people who fight can come together as well from time to time. I wish you would not pick a needless fight here based on personal issues. If you have a legitimate gripe with genealogy, then let's hear it.
 

tripod

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I have read this thread up and down and cannot for the life of me figure out how this got out of control. Thanx Lex for stepping in, Stronzo was being wrongly crucified. Stronzo is a very intelligent man with a genuine interest in geneology, he actually started this thread as a positive thing. Dr. Dilznick should've respected Gisella's emotional response and not have taken it as an attack. Dr. Dilznick is a very intelligent person as well, and probably did not mean to offend Gisella. People with the name Maniacal in their username are sociopathic before they even open their mouths.

This thread is fascinating and should be continued with a level head. Dr. Dilznick should probably apologize to Gisella and the maniac needs to find some other place to spread his negativity. Van or Von simply mean from, that's all. The O'Flannery's were descended from royalty, the Flannery's were not (I know that is fictitious, but just an example). Keep on keepin' on Stronzo (love the new hi-res avatar, great pic... a little scary)!
 

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I was really pleased when I saw that this thread had been started because it is something that really interests me as I said earlier. It is obvious from the responses that many people find the subject interesting.

One of the reasons I find the subject interesting is because I am naturally a very inquisitive person who likes to learn and absorb new information. During my research had I discovered that one of my ancestors had been very famous or infamous I would not have given a shit. I would have just found it interesting. In fact my tree is quite unremarkable - half from Northen England Half from South West Scotland - generation after generation. This to me however is still very interesting but does it affect how I live my life? I think not.

I have seen no evidence in this thread of people being snobbish about their ancestry as was implied earlier. The exchanges between Gisella and Dilz served to provide some great information about South America which was all new to me. That can't be a bad thing then can it.

This is an interesting topic to me which may not be to others and I do not see how anyone could get upset about this subject unless of course they had an ulterior motive.
 

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ManiacalMadMan said:
Quite clearly you are not actually READING the nonsense people have been writing here.

I am not upset or bothered by persons who have a genuine interest in their heritage, what I do not like about the entire heritage through genealogy matter is the fuckfaced idiots who use it as a way of holding themselves up as better than others

I'm mostly ignoring the nonsense that's being posted here.

What's this board all about? It's all about the glorification of our (supposedly) over-sized sexual organs that came to us, in part, through our genetic heritage.

It's only normal for people to emphasize the more illustrious members of their lineage but I'll agree, some people get carried away. Unfortunately, without posting links to their family tree, it's impossible to verify. Take it with a grain of salt and let it go.



On another note, does anyone have any Huguenots in their family line? It's unverified as of yet, but there might have been one who emigrated to Germany. I'm really interested in how the Protestant Reformation influenced migration patterns.
 

Lordpendragon

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Personally, I feel that if you have already farted once in public, it is good manners to leave the room before your follow through with the next one.

If I may add something to the chat. I had many relatives who were actively involved in the American War of Independence. On the American side, and far fewer on the British side. To me, it is more of a civil war and was considered so by many at the time.

You may also wish to consider that your history goes beyond your immigration to the New World and if you are European, your history was then the same as my history. In fact I would continue to say that your and my history, remains our history.

Generally History can bring people together.
 

B_Stronzo

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chico8 said:
On another note, does anyone have any Huguenots in their family line? It's unverified as of yet, but there might have been one who emigrated to Germany. I'm really interested in how the Protestant Reformation influenced migration patterns.

Yes four Huguenot lines two of which left through La Rochelle, France after the revocation of the Edit de Nantes and stayed for roughly a generation in Spitalfields, London then to the Colonies. PM me if you want.

One line (the surname is Delano and originally spelled "de la Noye") is possibly connected to the present gay mayor of Paris Bernard Delanoye.

tripod said:
Keep on keepin' on Stronzo (love the new hi-res avatar, great pic... a little scary)!

tripod! That was very kind but it's not me. That avatar is of the English actor Sean Bean when he was a bit younger. In my better moments kind people have said I resemble him.

........ if only :redface:
 

STYLYUNG

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Have any of you used Google's genealogical search of families? I searched my maternal roots using my mother's maiden last name. It covered 30 generations, from the present day to the year 1066. Stronzo, there were Delanos in that search too--- like in Franklin Delano Roosevelt. :confused:
 

B_Stronzo

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STYLYUNG said:
Have any of you used Google's genealogical search of families? I searched my maternal roots using my mother's maiden last name. It covered 30 generations, from the present day to the year 1066. Stronzo, there were Delanos in that search too--- like in Franklin Delano Roosevelt. :confused:

Yes.

FDR descended from the same progenitor. Thanks for cluing us in about the Google feature too. :smile:
 

Ethyl

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Excellent topic, Stronzo.

My ancestors are Dutch (maternal), German, and Native American (paternal).
My sister is the keeper and caretaker of the family tree. The Dutch ancestry is solidly established on paper, the German side a little more spotty, and the Native American even more so. Comprised of two tribes-Cherokee and Osage-she's had difficulty in tracking down documentation of births, deaths, weddings, etc. Marriage between the two tribes was common and I suspect this is at least partially responsible for the lack of significant documentation. I scanned through the other posts and didn't see any mention of this but aside from contacting the reservations (which my sister has) does anyone have any other suggestions for her? I'm assuming she has checked the aforementioned genealogy sites listed here but I will forward them to her as well.
 

B_Stronzo

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mercurialbliss said:
Excellent topic, Stronzo.

My ancestors are Dutch (maternal), German, and Native American (paternal).
My sister is the keeper and caretaker of the family tree. The Dutch ancestry is solidly established on paper, the German side a little more spotty, and the Native American even more so. Comprised of two tribes-Cherokee and Osage-she's had difficulty in tracking down documentation of births, deaths, weddings, etc. Marriage between the two tribes was common and I suspect this is at least partially responsible for the lack of significant documentation. I scanned through the other posts and didn't see any mention of this but aside from contacting the reservations (which my sister has) does anyone have any other suggestions for her? I'm assuming she has checked the aforementioned genealogy sites listed here but I will forward them to her as well.

MB,

I'm interested to read what you write since my "significant other" has had distinct trouble proving a widely-held contention among his father's people. He'd always heard from his dad "oh we're American Indian through my grandmother Stanton". It's so difficult to prove we found out.

Said significant other (when I first met him and asked his ancestry) said "I dunno I'm American". Lo these nearly ten years later he and I have amassed significant hands-on documentation through his family and now-dead relatives that he's (with the exception of your German line) exactly the nationalities you describe in your own family history if by American you mean English or British Isles. His people are New York State only after the Revolutionary War when many younger sons left for "the frontier" (then New York State) by circuitous routes often through the state of Vermont. Invariably the preceding generations are from Massachusetts, Connecticut, or Rhode Island.

His strong Dutch line is well-documented like yours since they followed the predictable route up the Hudson from New Amsterdam.

Again- he and I have perused census after census and have not found substantiation for the oral history from his father's people about his Indian ancestry. However I suspect it would not have been widely documented since we're talking about the late 18th century here if it exists.

His most recently immigrated European line is through his great grandmother whose people came from the lowlands of Scotland to Canada first then migrated into the Finger Lakes region where his grandfather was born to a Scottish mother and "Yankee" father. It was a slip of paper in a family Bible which said his great grandmother was "born in __________ , Scotland and her uncle was the Laird of Drumwhirn". Had that paper not been preserved we'd never have actually visited his ancestral churchyard and two family houses where cousins reside to this day.

One a side note I'll tell you that I had an extremely rocky time early-on with his mother. I'd made him gay you see. :tongue:

Only when I began to inquire about her historical past did she begin to ease up on me as her son's partner. Subsequent to that the three of us made yearly treks to New York State to visit his Dutch great grandmother who lived to be well into her nineties. Not only did he discover his historical past but he connected with his great grandmother and extended family in a way that would never have been possible were genealogy not the initial catalyst.
 

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I actually do want to give a shour out to ancestry.com, it is the shit when it comes to census records. Native American bloodlines are actually extremely hard to suss out. I have Choctau blood from my great grandfather whose genetic print left a decided mark on my grandmother, father and myself. East coast native peoples tended to have much lighter complexions than their western brethren. Hence, there was a lot of "passing" going on in the east coast.

My grandfather once turned to my father when questioning about our families Native American ancestry and said, "We have been passing for white for generations, I don't know why you'd want to ruin that!". He never again spoke of this... all I know is I look pretty funny and my schlong is strangely complected for a supposed caucasion (sorry, to mention that in this forum, but this is the lpsg). Does anyone else have descendants that "passed" for white?
 

B_Stronzo

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I'm reminded by your post tripod to use "Native American". Thanks.

And to respond directly to your inquiry my boyfriend's family (esp. his dad) never ceases to note that the family (according to tradition) has Native American ancestry. In fact when we told his father that he's no less than 80% English his responded "is that really a nationality"??:eek:

Now Scottish and Irish he understands are nationalities. For some reason English gets homogenized into "American". I've never really understood it.

Were I to tell you his surname you'd readily see it just "don't get more" English than that.
 

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tripod said:
... Does anyone else have descendants that "passed" for white?

I know that I did. I also know that I had great-great grandparents who WERE white. Skin color was (is?) a huge bone of contention on my father's side of the family. I was readily teased by cousins for having brown skin (they are mostly all tan on my dad's side). My aunt was disowned by my grandfather as she was brown even though she looked JUST like him (and my father).

Mariah Carey and Vin Diesel are current examples of people who can "pass" in some circles.
 

Dr. Dilznick

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Lex said:
Mariah Carey and Vin Diesel are current examples of people who can "pass" in some circles.
^ Wentworth Miller too. He was in Mariah's "We Belong Together" video also. Hmmm....


Gisella said:
Ps; Dont forget when i write I may sound agressive to you..:confused: but Im just being emotional and passionate. :rolleyes:
Right, Gisella. And yes, I am a U.S. citizen now, but I wasn't always. I guess I'll chalk it up as a chapter in my life. This is what I'm talking about, though:

"Differently from the United States, racial classification in Brazil is not necessarily related to ancestry or origin but, more commonly, to appearance or phenotype. Skin color and other characteristics such as hair texture, nose and lip width are usually taken into account when individuals classify themselves into different race/color categories. In addition to physical attributes, socioeconomic factors such as education, income, and exterior signs of wealth also play a role in how individuals racially perceive themselves and the others."

http://www.abep.nepo.unicamp.br/site_eventos_abep/PDF/ABEP2004_624.pdf
 

Lex

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Dr. Dilznick said:
^ Wentworth Miller too. He was in Mariah's "We Belong Together" video also. Hmmm....

YES. Mrs. Lex went to high school with Wentworth and we talk about him all the time (Prison Break being our favorite TV Show and all).

Mariah seems partial to other fair-skinned brothers (see: Jeter, Derek).



Sorry for the side track. Back to genealogy.
 

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Stronzo said:
.

Now can we please just exchange information (those of us who have something real to contribute)? :rolleyes:
Ah yes! When all else fails, you decide who has something real and who does not have something real to contribute Sorry old boy, but any and all thoughts are of some value to someone and the second that you forget that or decide that you know better (as in deciding what is of value to everyone and every subject) you are placing yourself on the lowest rung of the ladder of humanity. So, no I do not need to agree with any of your statements yet I can realize that they may have some value and meaning to someone. Sadly you are unable to offer such open mindedness although it seems to be one of your biggest beefs is about others not being open minded