General Electric Paid No Federal Taxes in 2010

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_Marius567, Mar 27, 2011.

  1. B_Marius567

    B_Marius567 New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2004
    Messages:
    1,952
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    The top tax bracket for U.S. corporations stands at 35 percent, one of the highest rates in the world. So how is it possible that a giant of American business, General Electric, paid nothing in federal taxes last year, even as it made billions in profit?

    And should the CEO of GE, Jeffrey Immelt, be advising the president on business?
    For two years, President Obama has been talking about the need for corporate tax reform, declaring that the system is too complicated and that companies pay too much.
    "Simplify, eliminate loopholes, treat everybody fairly," Obama said in February.
    For those unaccustomed to the loopholes and shelters of the corporate tax code, GE's success at avoiding taxes is nothing short of extraordinary. The company, led by Immelt, earned $14.2 billion in profits in 2010, but it paid not a penny in taxes because the bulk of those profits, some $9 billion, were offshore. In fact, GE got a $3.2 billion tax benefit.

    "Two things are disconcerting. One is, there's disproportionate amount of profits being reported offshore. And then, even for the profits that are reported onshore, they're paying less than 35 percent," said Martin Sullivan, a contributing editor for Tax Analysts.
    2010 was the second year in a row that GE recorded billions in profits and paid no taxes.
    During that same period, Immelt has been a close advisor to the president on the business community, a relationship that rubs some the wrong way. Immelt serves as the chairman of Obama's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness.
    In a statement, General Electric said that it "pays what it owes under the law and is scrupulous about its compliance with tax obligations in all jurisdictions." The company claims that its zero-dollar tax bill is largely a result of losses at its financial arm, GE Capital, due to the Wall Street meltdown. General Electric Paid No Federal Taxes in 2010 - ABC News

    i am poor so i pay more tax :mad:
     
  2. D_Tully Tunnelrat

    D_Tully Tunnelrat New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,168
    Likes Received:
    1
    To add insult to injury, Mr. Immelt will tell you that the Corporate Tax Rate in the US, 35%, is too high. Clearly the effective tax rate suits his interests better. This has been on-going since the '70s, as our reliquary tax system has loopholes large enough to drive an oil freighter through.
     
  3. Rikter8

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    4,488
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    51
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    MI
    And the corporate machine marches on, leveling everything in its path.
     
  4. phillyhangin

    phillyhangin New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    211
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Big surprise, huh? :wink:
     
  5. sargon20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,370
    Likes Received:
    2,102
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlantis
    'Only the little people pay taxes' - Leona Hemsley
     
  6. houtx48

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7,095
    Likes Received:
    35
    Gender:
    Male
    I see no mention of ad valorem taxes which adds up to almost as much as income tax. I can see them throwing all the trash loans out of G.E. Capital and taking substantial losses.
     
  7. hypoc8

    hypoc8 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    Messages:
    718
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    SC
    I guess she found out she wasn't as big as she thought she was.
     
  8. B_Boy_Boy_Boy

    B_Boy_Boy_Boy New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2010
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    0
    Interesting article. It proves why journalists are qualifed to write about nothing except how to be a journalist.

    The author points out that GE doesn't pay anything to the US fed, but fails to mention whether or not they posted a profit or a loss. Just mentioning that there is billions in revenue and overseas gains. By my math the overseas gains is a few billion dollars short. This further proves that the US should lower their tax rate as these companies would stop moving their businesses overseas.

    It seems very popular right now (well, the last 50 years) with one party in particular to stick it to "corporations." Because, by nature, they are "evil." This is nonsense. They are operated by every day people, they are owned by (GE is a public company) everyday people, they employ everyday people, they are supported by customers who are...you guessed it, everyday people. In fact, employee retirement funds hold trillions in stock of corporations.

    Then, they presume that the "corporation" can own or hold money. This simply isn't true. A corporation is a legal fiction, it doesn't really exist except that we all agree it does. By virtue of it not actually existing it cannot hold money. Either the money is paid out in returns to shareholders, or is spent as costs. There is no magical GE walking amongst us that gets to keep all that cash. The shareholders, together, own all the assets. So, no matter where they put the money, a real person owns it. Further, these "evil" companies are only as evil as the consumer lets them be. If you think Wal-Mart is evil then stop shopping there. Go to "honest" Whole Foods (honestly charging double for some identical goods).
     
  9. B_Boy_Boy_Boy

    B_Boy_Boy_Boy New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2010
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    0
    Loophole: another word for an exemption.

    These aren't oversights, or unregulated areas, they are intentionally written into the tax code to lower the effective tax rate. If GE is moving their operations overseas while paying far less than the 30% corporate tax rate, imagine how much business the US would lose if you forced them to pay the whole thing! Thus, the tax exemption (or loophole as we call tax exemptions we don't like).
     
    #9 B_Boy_Boy_Boy, Mar 29, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2011
  10. itsthepopei

    itsthepopei Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    330
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    176
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlanta

    I love it when people volunteer bad facts and hold them as gosphal on which they build there arguments. Here is GE's quarterly report to show just how "little" 4.54 billion in quarterly profit is an why that should be nontaxable.
    http://www.ge.com/pdf/investors/events/10152010/ge_webcast_presentation_10152010.pdf
     
    #10 itsthepopei, Mar 29, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2011
  11. hud01

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,262
    Likes Received:
    23
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    new york city
    You forgot about one simple accounting 101 line called retained earnings. GE does not pay out all the profits it makes in dividends, nor does it spend the remaining money. Apple has billions in cash on its balance sheet, By stating this argument you show yourself as very naive and ignorant of the facts.

    If you think that Jeff Immelt is an every day person you really need to take a step back and take a reality check,
     
  12. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    *SIGH* :rolleyes:

    This is a news story that has been circulating for quite a while now. Even if this one article didn't tell you whether or not GE made a profit, it's known by most people familiar with it that they did make one. A simple Google search using the keywords "GE", "Profits" and "2011" could tell you this. You could also replace the keyword "2011" with "2010" as well for more details. Here are just three of the MANY sources that give you various bits of information on the subject matter -

    General Electric logs 31% gain in profit - Jan. 21, 2011
    GE profits send Dow up for 8th straight week - Coeur d'Alene Press: Business
    GE Paid No Taxes in 2010 Despite Making $5.1 Billion in Profits | The Gateway Pundit

    Wrong. Try again.
    The lack of information from one journalistic piece doesn't dictate whether or not our government needs to lower taxes. Besides, another Google search for the keywords "US corporate tax rates by year" brings up an interesting piece from Wikipedia that provides tons of info regarding that very subject. Corporate tax in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    One site even tries to demonstrate how GE used a known corporate loophole to do exactly what they did to avoid paying taxes. Google 2.4% Rate Shows How $60 Billion Lost to Tax Loopholes - Bloomberg

    BTW, the dictionary doesn't list "loophole" and "exemption" as synonyms either. Contrary to belief, even sources that dictate what words in the language you speak actually mean are necessary to decide whether or not the next person providing commentary (with a lack of facts) are saying the right things.

    A "loophole" is understood in a literal sense to be a means of evasion. To say that an "exemption" is the same thing would give the impression that families who have dependent children are doing it purposely and unjustly to avoid paying taxes. Even I, a gay man who has no dependents and probably will never have one, wouldn't go that far to twist definitions to have an opinion.

    Not all corporations. Just ones that have little to no regards to its workers and their concerns.

    Already been said, and certainly understood by most on this board.

    Let's do another Google search, shall we? This time, using "GE", "Number of Employees" and "2010". Again, lots of sources to choose from. However, this seems to be useful information - The General Electric Company, or GE (NYSE: GE), is an American multinational conglomerate corporation incorporated in New York. The Company operates through five segments: Energy Infrastructure, Technology Infrastructure, Capital Finance and Consumer & Industrial. In 2010, Forbes ranked GE as the world's second largest company after JPMorgan Chase, based on a formula that compared the total sales, profits, assets, and market value of several multinational companies. The company has 287,000 employees around the world. - General Electric - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    That first source also posted their NYSE symbol. Cool! How about we check their current stock price - General Electric Company: NYSE:GE quotes & news - Google Finance

    Currently it's at 19.59. Seems kinda low, doesn't it? In fact, you can also set the graph to show prices over a number of years. Let's set it for 10 years and see what it says? Seems as if in May 18, 2001, GE stock was at a ten year high of 52.99. That shows a drop in more than half of its revenue... about 33 points or so if we need an average. That's not good either. Seems as if many of these everyday people you're talking about, at least on the lower levels, have been losing a LOT of money on their stock options with GE if they've been with the company for a long period of time. Wouldn't you agree?

    So even though 287,000 employees go to work for GE everyday and usually have to report to some form of mysterious body that bears its name, in some shape or fashion, in order to keep it afloat by providing various tasks of labor and therefore generate a paycheck, even though the entire working world would refer to it as a "corporation" it really isn't. Gotcha.

    I put all of that in Google. Nothing came up. :rolleyes:

    Now you're just being silly. I think most people can figure out, even without a Google search, that the representing entity that is the "corporation" receives money (in a literal sense) through several different financial assessing methods, and that profits are distributed among their workers (from the custodians up to the shareholders, CEOs and long time business owners) based on several, carefully calculated financial formulas by very important people who monitor all of their accounting. That's just one simple way of putting it.

    Technically, no one person "owns the money" here. It's not like it's 1890 anymore, back when Thomas Edison & Charles A. Coffin brought together their respected properties and created the conglomerate that we all know today as GE. One of my previous links earlier also had that information to provide to this discussion. Isn't Google great? :biggrin1:

    The primary people who now own GE make a form of binding contract (either personally or through others who are supposed to represent their best wishes) with others to ensure the company maintains its existence. So in some ways, based on these stipulations (which we wouldn't know anything about since neither you or I are GE employees, I think...) everyone technically owns a portion of GE. You did kinda imply that earlier when you talked about the trillions in stock that their employees own. Alas, I'm sure the everyday grunts of that company own much less of it.

    Really? Considering that the mass majority of things in this world cannot work without some form of energy, I tend to think it's not about the consumer allowing them to do what they want but just accepting what they do because collectively they're powerless to do anything even if they don't like it. I mean, I don't think any consumer is going to stop using all forms of energy (primarily electric), therefore making it impossible to even operate the necessary devices in one's home in a modern day society just to prove a point.

    That's the problem with things that are necessities in this world. It's rather hard to treat it as a luxury item that can be done away with, knowing that without it our current way of life would come to a relative standstill. We have options when it comes to buying food, alas, where we get our energy isn't so cut & dry... or as simple as unplugging your computer from an outlet that says "GE" and plugging it in one that has the name of another company over it. With that said, there are no Wal-Marts in Manhattan. I'll let you Google that on your own, if you dare, just to see if you're really willing to try to inform yourself on such matters. Because it's clearly obvious that you didn't do it here, and that's not the fault of some journalist that left out whether or not GE made a profit.

    Like I say so many times (and I'm sure many other people think it), what good is an ideology if there's no factual backing to stand behind it? That's my rhetorical question to you, and please... don't bother to answer it. I don't want to overload your highly opinionated self with a task that actually requires thought that goes beyond yourself. Consider that to be my gift to you. Stay classy, OK?

    * cue "The More You Know" music and throw a bunch of rainbows in the sky (or a crate full of Skittles due to massive budget cuts and necessary corporate sponsoring for dramatic, sarcastic effect) * :rolleyes:
     
    #12 B_VinylBoy, Mar 29, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2011
  13. Gillette

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    8,309
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    14
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
  14. houtx48

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7,095
    Likes Received:
    35
    Gender:
    Male
    Wholefoods gets bad rap, they have things that nobody else handles and once in a while they are a few cents cheaper than Randalls or Krogers. Stop running on WholePaycheck..lol
     
  15. Charles Finn

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,538
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    29
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Toledo Ohio
    but big business says if you tax me i will move and they do
     
  16. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    And with access to the proper education and financial structuring for ambitious and hard working common people, we can find or create several small businesses that can fill in the gap for that big one. Which can arguably be a reason why Wal-Mart doesn't exist in a major city like New York. So let 'em leave. And tax and/or penalize the heck out of them for shipping jobs overseas and maintaining residency here. That happens to millions of people living in New Jersey and working in NYC for those potentially higher wages. I should know, because I lived there for 5 years.

    We can eliminate "too big to fail" if we can get citizens and our electorate not to think some things are "too little to care". But I think you know that already. :biggrin1:
     
    #16 B_VinylBoy, Mar 29, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2011
  17. midlifebear

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,908
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nevada, Buenos Aires, and Barçelona
    In lieu of the problem of the Japanese power plants I couldn't help thinking GE's corporate motto as being, "G.E. irradiating good things that were alive." *

    *G.E. We bring good things to life."
     
  18. parr

    parr New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Florida
    Don't you know, it's the one's who works thier asses off for the crums,
    they pay the taxes. Just have to know the right people.
     
  19. hud01

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,262
    Likes Received:
    23
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    new york city
    proof?
     
  20. citr

    citr New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2009
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    0

    Uh. . . You may want to grab a few 101-type books on modern conglomerates. You're entirely off on almost every point here.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted