General Motors seems safe; Chrysler is offered an ultimatum

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Mar 30, 2009.

  1. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    From ABC News:

    "President Obama will announce today that the federal government will not give Chrysler and General Motors the additional $21.5 billion they requested in February because his administration has deemed their viability plans inadequate."


    From MSNBC:

    "Obama sent a blunt message to Detroit automakers: To survive — and win more government help — they must remake themselves top to bottom. Driving home the point, the White House ousted the General Motors chairman as it rejected GM and Chrysler’s restructuring plans."

    --------------------

    This administration has seemed to determine that General Motors is worth saving. Obama seems to be saying that GM has a future. The government is going to rally behind GM (the president even singled out GM brands like Buick). GM chairman Rick Wagoner has been forced to resign, a "sacrificial lamb", a gesture to show this administration means business.


    Chrysler is a different story. They've been asked to either merge or go into bankruptcy.

    Again, here's MSNBC:

    "Frustrated administration officials, speaking on condition of anonymity ahead of Obama’s announcement, said Chrysler has been given a 30-day window to complete a proposed partnership with Italian automaker Fiat SpA. The government will offer up to $6 billion to the companies if they can negotiate a deal before time runs out. If a Chrysler-Fiat union cannot be completed, Washington plans to walk away, leaving Chrysler destined for a complete sell-off."


    GM has 60 days to restructure.

    Chrysler has 30 days to merge.


    I'm amazed that Obama is so front & center here. He seems to be actively involved behind the scenes, not just window dressing. He is no socialist. He wants the auto industry to "...stand on their own. Not as wards of the state."


    Obama: "Let me be clear: the United States government has no interest or intention of running GM."

    "And we cannot make the survival of our auto industry dependent on an unending flow of tax dollars."
     
    #1 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Mar 30, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2009
  2. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    at this juncture, we are only prepared to deliver a gut, emotional reaction -- I'm glad to see Chrysler gone, as I always found their close collaboration with the nipponese revolting and abhorrent

    at this juncture we are prepared to look into the issues further to deliver a more thoughtful response, should we deem it warranted
     
  3. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    It's a step in the right direction. From what I see here, there's not much detail around what "administration has deemed their viability plans inadequate." Curious what that means, until it's clearer, I can't say good or bad on this latest. I hope it's not grandstanding about executive salaries, while unions are allowed to run rampant...


    Curious how the unions feel about it.
     
  4. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Nick4444: Funny. While reading your response -

    (at this juncture we are prepared to look into the issues further to deliver a more thoughtful response, should we deem it warranted)...

    the line that instantly popped into my head was: At this juncture, all conservatives must now listen to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity first, in order to know what our response should be. It's too early for cons to have an opinion yet until it's been properly handed down to us"
     
  5. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    I can safely predict... build a shitty ass unsafe ugly slow green car, and you'll get your money... reads as such:

    And above all, have they created a credible model for how to not only survive, but succeed in this competitive global market?
     
  6. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    hilarious

    what I had in mind, inter alia, are the questions and issues arising from the intervention of government into the private sector to the extent that Roosevelt and Obama are engaging in

    one of the reasons cited by economic historians for the adverse impact of Roosevelt's forays was the incertitude created by Roosevelt among both investors and private sector participants

    at the same time, though, these organizations sought this assistance, and one assumes, one should have expected a quid pro quo

    see, e.g., Higg's thesis of "Regime Uncertainty"

    http://www.independent.org/pdf/tir/tir_01_4_higgs.pdf

    so, the issues multiply, while facts have to be sorted for their relevance, before one can compose the appropriate projection
     
    #6 B_Nick4444, Mar 30, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2009
  7. B_Artful Dodger

    B_Artful Dodger New Member

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    American cars are generally dreadful... but Chrysler takes the prize for being the worst of the bunch so I doubt the world would loose much through its demise.
     
  8. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Another thoughtful, prudent decision. Why am I not surprised.
     
  9. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    I can't wait to see the details of Wagoner's golden parachute.
     
  10. vince

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    God... it gives me such a hard on when you talk like Queen Elizabeth II.
     
  11. vince

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    Nah Will... They'd have to take their heads out their asses and expose their ears for that to happen. That is, unless they are channeling FOX directly. :tongue:
     
  12. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Nick8:

    Another thoughtful, prudent decision. Why am I not surprised.

    --------------------

    I think I've come to the conclusion that the right is getting angrier and more vocally partisan precisely because of the string of "thoughtful, prudent decisions".

    After all, their goal is to win the presidency in 2012 at any cost. The whole conservative ideology is under the microscope and in varying states of ruin and disrepair. The idea of a moderate, thoughtful democratic president, articulating a sound, centered liberalism, is eating them up inside.
     
  13. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    And even as we speak, star is compiling his mythical list of the staggering number of 'lies' Obama has managed to tell in his 60+ days in office. It's all so very...desperate, isn't it?
     
  14. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    I've seemed to become a bit obsessed with the idea of internationalism, globalism. a "global economy" since Obama took office. Or maybe it was just the effect of an AIG failure affecting so many interconnecting global financial institutions.

    But, again, I notice that Chrysler is being pushed to merge with an italian automaker, Fiat. Chrysler, whatever it's strengths and weaknesses, because of it's history, is still an (marginally) iconic american company.

    No longer. More internationalism. More globalism. This is not a decision Bush would have made. But I kind of like the broader idea of this coming brotherhood between America and Europe.



    Edit: Surfing around online, I see that Chrysler and Fiat announced a provisional Chrysler-Fiat alliance on January 20, 2009, the day of Obama's inauguration, so this administration is pushing for a merger that's been in the works for at least a couple months. The Italian Fiat Auto Group owns the Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo and Lancia brands.
     
    #14 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Mar 30, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2009
  15. vince

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    I don't know if Fiat/Chrysler is a good idea. The worst American automobile manufacturer wedded to the worst European one? It could be the end of Fiat. Daimler-Benz damn near choked on Chrysler and they are stronger than Fiat.

    To be fair to Fiat though, they do make some nice models. I think the Doblo would sell like hotcakes in the USA.
     
  16. Flashy

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    well said vince...but Daimler AG is still choking on Chrysler...they still own roughly 20% of it...and if this goes through, they are going to have to eat the loss, along with Cerberus for about 8 billion dollars worth...

    Cerberus is not going to agree to eating that loss of equity quietly...they fight tough...and they have the power and muscle to do it. they own 81% of Chrysler and are also one of its prime creditors...they are going to fight this tooth and nail, and if they get away with not losing any money, or reaping a bit of profit from the next bailout, it is going to be major hot water for the administration and all other folks involved...

    considering Cerberus has huge political ties (Quayle is a spokesman and runs one of the international units) and also owns 51% of GMAC, this is going to be a massive battle.

    Cerberus has lots of leverage...the University of California, University of Texas education systems and the largest Pennsylvania Teachers pension fund are all huge investors in Cerberus, and they will take a *HUGE* hit to their funds under management...that is not good

    also, Cerberus, if forced to eat too much more equity loss than they want, could decide to break Chrysler into pieces, and sell it off, firing tens thousands, to recoup some of the losses they will be forced to eat.

    this is going to be one nasty battle.
     
  17. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    Will, did you start this thread to talk about the automakers, or find yet another opportunity to give us the "GOP/conservatives are evil and are 100% incorrect at everything" drivel?
     
  18. sargon20

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    Exactly. The Ministry of Truth has not officially tabulated an official anti-Obama, anti-Democrat, anti-liberal, anti-socialist, anti-communinist, pro-investor class, anti-big government (regulation) response. The Ministry of Truth should have it's official response and download to all the propaganda organs (WSJ, Faux News and Rush) by 5PM.
     
  19. transformer_99

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    He doesn't even need one, but should get something as it's common amongst CEO's. "So Johnny, what prize do we have for our parting contestant ?" After being with GM long enough to qualify for a $ 20 million retirement.

    GM's ousted CEO eligible for $20M retirement package - CNN.com

    To me, as long as we're bailing out GM, why should Chrysler not get help. Their product line is actually much more appealing than anything GM makes. As for the past decades when Chrysler sold Mitsubishi products. To be candid those were the best products they had to sell. When Iacocca was touting K-cars, Mitsubishi had the Starion and Conquest. Later the first FWD Chargers, those were inferior to the Talon/Laser/Eclipse models Mitsubishi produced.

    So when Obama ousts the GM CEO, the guy still comes out the winner in all of this and he doesn't even have to sweat the tough times the entire industry is going thru. This is the big issue I have with this whole thing. it's better than giving him a f*cking bonus. I think he should stay, restructure his salary to $ 1/year total compensation and let him work his @ss off to get GM turned around. Give him that chance to prove if his bloodline is truly GM and that he's not a whore. He's only going to write a book about this and make even more money. Let him spend his free time working his butt off, put him on the assembly line and let him do the same, redundant, mind-numbing task of tightening the same damn bolt on 50,000 mass produced automobiles for that dollar. That's a suitable torture for his poor performance, but to let him walk with $ 20 million over the next 4 years and not do a damn thing for it but opt on a form to receive it. Some NFL Pro Bowl players would be fortunate to be getting that kind of foldback, let alone never have to play a single "down" for it.
     
  20. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    I got a PM from a conservative poster who quickly blamed Obama for the 3% drop in the stock market today. Is this what most conservatives here think? (Of course the guy never mentioned - now or last week - that the Dow had risen 21% over the past 13 days).

    Instead of merely being quick to assign blame, why do cons never offer their alternative plan? (cons keep shouting "No more bailouts!" - that's the whole raison d'etre of those yahoo tea parties - but offering GM & Chrysler zilch would have caused a steep market loss)

    The cons offer nothing. They give no alternative budgets with specific numbers that can be critiqued; they take the opposite position of whatever Obama proposes (and when there is no "opposite", such as the GM/C business, they make a lot of noise or change the subject),

    I listened to a conservative radio host named Mark Levin this afternoon. During the course of a single hour, Levin compared Barack Obama to:

    1. Karl Marx

    2. Che Guevara

    3. the Soviet Union

    4. Hitler

    I kid you not. Conservatives are spinning out of control today.
     
    #20 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Mar 30, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2009
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