General Peter Pace speaks...

[Sklar]

This is really disheartening to hear but doesn't suprise me one bit coming from him:

FOXNews.com - Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Calls Homosexuality 'Immoral' - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum

I actually served under him from 1989 to 1991 while he was the commanding officer of Marine Barracks 8th and I in Washington D.C.

Relations with the gay community and the barracks were going south very quickly as there were reports of Marines hasseling customers of one of the gay bars that was in the area. The issue came to a head, which I don't remember specifically what it was and the barracks was then protested by about 40 to 50 gay men and women over the course of a week. It drew quite a bit of media attention at that time.

At the time Col. Pace called us all in for a meeting, remember the harrasement had been going on for weeks, and he told us specifically to leave "them" alone. This was turning into a public relations nightmare of the barracks and the USMC.

I don't recall what it was that broke the camels back but I do recall that it did involve three Marines, something physical (I want to say a smoke grenade was lobbed into a gay bar OR that it was a bashing incident but I honestly don't remember) that were sentenced, by him, to confinement in the barracks for three days. No suspension of pay, no reduction in rank.

When he told us what the punishment was, all I could think of is what if it wasn't gay men that this happened to? What if it was a Jewish person? Would they get the same punishment? I have a lot of regrets about my time in the Marines and this is one of them.

Even back then, I was pretty vocal about what I percieved as miscarriages of Justice, I had at one point in time, gone to my state Senators office about a problem to get it resolved, but there I was in a room full of Marines and I didn't have the moral courage or back bone to ask him what he would have done if it was a Jewish man or an African American that the crime was committed against.

 

[Male Bonding etc]

We all have those moments, Sklar. Instead of beating yourself up about it, resolve to learn from it and be stronger the next time.

 

[Sklar]

We all have those moments, Sklar. Instead of beating yourself up about it, resolve to learn from it and be stronger the next time.

Oh, I learned. I was young and just learning to start to stand up for myself and for what I believe in.

Today, I don't have that problem.

 

[fratpack]

In an AP article I read regarding this latest homophobic attack, it mentioned a 2005 study of gays in the military and stated that 10,000 soldiers, 50 of whom were Arabic translators were dismissed from the army.
And though I can't remember the exact number of troops Bush wants added to those already serving in Iraq, I believe the number was just under 10,000.
Interesting and ironic.

 

[madame_zora]

Skalr, you were in a tough spot. We've all seen how any criticism of the government gets you pegged as "anti-American".

I remember every time a homeless person has asked me for a dollar, and I've not given it. I remember them enough to fork over my damned dollars now.

Gays are fighting the battle that blacks began in the 60s, I don't expect their battle will require less effort or vigilance. Do I wish we would learn our lessons? Sure, but wish in one hand, as they say.

Institutionalised discrimination brings shame on the glory that could be America. What a sad day for us all.

 

[Full_Phil]

What is there in humans that causes us to need someone, or some group, to look down on, or to fear? There's always an argument that if we don't hate or fear, something bad will eventually happen. We fear being "taken over" by inclusion and understanding. Why? Is it because that's what we really want to do? Is it because the "survival of the fittest" element of our mammalian heritage just won't go away? Or are we continually challenged to be better than our real selves? This is also drivel, but I'm going to post it just the same.

 

[agnslz]

Fuck that motherfucker. And his hideous wife, too. I'd still like to suck his dick, though.:biggrin: I'd show him just how 'immoral' homosexuality can be.

 

[B_big dirigible]

There are obvious hazards to generalizing from Marines or their commanders to American society, just as there would be when generalizing from accountants or proctologists or Hollywood stuntmen or rocket scientists.

But it might be nice if, in keeping with their specialized training, the Marines could be switched to harrassing some other group - the Irish, maybe. They don't seem to mind it much, although all the drunk Irish jokes get my Irish half (quarter; whatever) mildly riled. I'm not too sure that they'd still be Marines if that stuff was drilled out of them entirely. At some point down that slippery slope I'd expect to see them going door-to-door, selling Marine Cookies ... at which point they'd be useless, unless one is particularly fond of cookies.

As for smoke grenades, they can be a force for good, or ...

 

[musclebare9]

This is the U.S. where each of us is entitled to our own opinions. He clearly stated that was his opinion. Demanding an apology is assinine, they would be hollow meaningless words. There are gay people in powerful positions that are influencing society just as much as this guy. Everyday there is something in the media jamming homosexuality in everyone's face whether they like it or not. Ahh, Land of the Free.

 

[madame_zora]

This is the U.S. where each of us is entitled to our own opinions. He clearly stated that was his opinion. Demanding an apology is assinine, they would be hollow meaningless words. There are gay people in powerful positions that are influencing society just as much as this guy. Everyday there is something in the media jamming homosexuality in everyone's face whether they like it or not. Ahh, Land of the Free.

That's right, and fuck the niggers, spics and bitches too. God bless America!

 

[dudepiston]

The very nature of "the media" (this website included) is that you don't HAVE to watch it, listen to it. Turn off your TV! Shut down your computer and go for a jog! But for the thousands of self-identifying gay people in the military, fighting for your right to party EVERY single day, comments such as yours and General Pace's are hurtful, derogatory and ignorant not to mention counter-productive.

This is the U.S. where each of us is entitled to our own opinions. He clearly stated that was his opinion. Demanding an apology is assinine, they would be hollow meaningless words. There are gay people in powerful positions that are influencing society just as much as this guy. Everyday there is something in the media jamming homosexuality in everyone's face whether they like it or not. Ahh, Land of the Free.

 

[musclebare9]

A jog, that's a good idea. Oh wait, there's that A&F billboard down the street. I guess I better leave my MP3 player at home too, I'm not real sure about what they are saying in that song. Maybe I could just hide in a dark room, then maybe I wouldn't be blasted by the gay agenda that is rampant everywhere (not just on the computer).

hurtful, derogatory and ignorant not to mention counter-productive

That's right, and fuck the niggers, spics and bitches too. God bless America!

The man has an opinion. He isn't apologizing and neither would I. I understand this site, and enjoy it. I have always been respectful of everyone's opinion. Why don't you try it.

 

[madame_zora]

The man has an opinion. He isn't apologizing and neither would I. I understand this site, and enjoy it. I have always been respectful of everyone's opinion. Why don't you try it.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!1111<crosses eyes>

Yeah, right, great- I'll be respectful of your disrespectful opinion- that's happening.

Yes, you have to right to your idiotic opinion that a "gay agenda" is being shoved down your throat, just like the nigger agenda was shoved down the throat of your daddy. Simpletons like you just get born over and over, raise simpleton kids, ad lib and fade out. Only when the majority consensus agrees to stop discrimination will morons such as yourself learn to keep their stupidity in the shadows. Until that time arrives, please keep talking- I want to know who to avoid.

You're free to be as rude and stupid as you please, I'm free to respond in the words of my choosing. Great country, eh?

 

[Lex]

I know how we can reduce our military prescence in Iraq by 40% or more in less than a month: Let all the gay soldiers (closeted) come home immediately. Tell them no harm will come of them and that they will keep their full benefit packages.

When all that are left to fight are straight people, we'll see how fucking righteous and indignant they seem.

Ignorant fucktards. All of them (that feel that gays should not serve or must serve in silence).

 

[socoken]

This topic is making me angry, so I will leave it at only this:

There is a fundamental lack of understanding on both sides, and to resort to personal insults and attacks is not going to solve anything.

 

[B_RoysToy]

Maybe the bias butt has a phobia because of his name! Is he trying to rebel against peter? (not totally LOLing)

 

[madame_zora]

Maybe the bias butt has a phobia because of his name! Is he trying to rebel against peter? (not totally LOLing)

THAT was worth a laugh- apparently, Mr. Musclebare doesn't know how that sounds. Probably a closet case himself.

 

[musclebare9]

Madame Zora, I am amazed. I have read much about you on this site and understand that there is a great respect for you. And, if the avatar is your photo, you are an attractive woman. Please don't tarnish your image by lowering yourself to childish name calling. I expect a more thoughtful and deep response from one as great as you.

 

[madame_zora]

Madame Zora, I am amazed. I have read much about you on this site and understand that there is a great respect for you. And, if the avatar is your photo, you are an attractive woman. Please don't tarnish your image by lowering yourself to childish name calling. I expect a more thoughtful and deep response from one as great as you.

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Thnx,
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[musclebare9]

You could have at least cut the "Thnx, Mgmt" part off of the end. I would have taken it more personal if I knew it came straight from you and not just a convenient cut and paste.:biggrin1: