Getting Circumcized

[Snozzle]

what he is saying is noone would want to have it done NOW. I, however, am glad that it was done as a baby. That's why I can't really agree with those who voted let him decide when he's older, with all the trepidation and cognizance of the process. Also, I believe that it doesn't turn out the same when you get circumcised as an adult. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I heard that on this site.

You seem to assume that it must be done sooner or later. It almost always need not. Or that his decision, when he grows older, will inevitably be to have it done. It almost certainly will not. And you seem to assume that because you're happy to be circumcised now, you would have been unhappy to have been intact. You would almost certainly have been even happier to have a whole penis.

 

[Snozzle]

WTF, those cells are there because of the foreskin.

The claim that Langerhans cells have anything to do with HIV transmission is quite shonky, based on in vitro studies (of dead cells). Langerhans cells are all over the skin, nothing special about the foreskin.

And BTW, Ever hear of smegma?

Yes, and earwax and toejam. It's about as dreadful as those. Oooooohhhhh! Smeg-maaaa! If you've ever been up close and personal with a(n uncircumcised) woman, you've encountered smegma.

 

[Mr._dB]

WTF, those cells are there because of the foreskin.

And BTW, Ever hear of smegma?

Ever hear of running water? We have showers and baths nowadays.

 

[BigA]

You seem to assume that it must be done sooner or later. It almost always need not. Or that his decision, when he grows older, will inevitably be to have it done. It almost certainly will not. And you seem to assume that because you're happy to be circumcised now, you would have been unhappy to have been intact. You would almost certainly have been even happier to have a whole penis.

I didn't mean that it must be done sooner or later. I think you read too much into my post. However, for this culture it's generally done in infancy or not at all, unless there is a health risk that makes it necessary. However, there are cultures who do it to boys later in life as a rite of passage. That sounds unappealing to me, but I'm not ignorant enough to tell them that they'd be happier if they abandoned this practice

 

[Ganymede]

Yeah, maybe we should amputate every functioning body part that gets dirty. I get gunk in my ears every day. You know, it's so exhausting cleaning them out. I should probably get my ears cut off, or at least my ear lobes because, you know, like foreskin, they're not really necessary anyway.

Ever hear of running water? We have showers and baths nowadays.

 

[viking1]

Ganymede, I agree with you on the state of health care in this country (U.S.)
I won't get into any politics as I will loose all my religion and get kicked off of here for the language that would result.

Circumsion has always been a big argument. I just wish I had been able to make that choice for myself and would never deny a son that right.

I know having to cut as an adult can be much worse but it's seldom required.
There are three guys I know who had to be cut as adults. One of them is my uncle and he said it was quite nasty. I would still rather have had that choice to make for myself. Too many parents make too many choices at young age that would be better left for the children to decide after they mature.

Maybe being uncircumsized would not be any better or different but I would have liked to have learned that for myself. Don't I have that right?

 

[baseball99]

WTF, those cells are there because of the foreskin.

And BTW, Ever hear of smegma?

yeh, you're missing the point. Doesnt matter WHY they are there just the fact THEY ARE there. Just like if you had an allergic reaction causing anaphylaxis.....those cells in your body (neutrophils, etc) that are causing this process are natrually there in your body for a reason, but exposed to proper antigens (immune stimulating proteins, etc) they cause serious problems and even death. Yes, I have heard of smegma.....I have also heard of many things the body produces in attempts to be helpful but may not be so in all cases

 

[baseball99]

I don't know where you live. I live in the US, a capitalist society that spends $400 billion a year on its military to invade sovereign nations, meanwhile most citizens cannot afford health care and go without.

Yes, I'm angry about the situation of health care in this country, and so are most Americans. Most Americans agree that we should have health care, but we aren't given it because the insurance companies don't want us to have it.

As for my health and well being, I'm in incredible shape and am relatively happy with my life. It's just that this is a heated topic for me. I was involved with anti-circumcision groups a while back. All the arguments I've presented here are standard arguments in the anti-circumcision movement. If you aren't American then you may not know that about 80% of American males are circumcised. Israel and the US are the two industrialized nations with the highest rate of this operation.

I agree with you but what makes you think the government will actually provide good healthcare for all? There are major problems in socialist systems as well, believe me I have seen them. Yes, I am in the US. I dont agree with complete socialized healthcare.....why? Because where is this money going to come from? Let' be realistic, its not going to come from military spending. I would not want to be an old person in the system as it changed bc you can forget most end of life care because it is not "cost effective". Around 80% of a persons entire insurance money is spent in the last 6-12 months of life. How can you look at a dying elderly person (who has paid money into the system their entire life) that they can not receive cardiac catheritization so they can live pain free and meagerly extend their life bc it is not cost effective to the system? You understand that happens regularly in such systems....Healthcare needs to be sustained by the population, not by the government. You realize people would still opt out, purchase their own private insurance and still receive better care? I agree tho, I believe there should be a limited socialized idea where basic immunizations, physical exams, preventitive medicine, and a reasonable number of sick visits should be covered.....but not all of medicine, every test, etc. Also when people have no idea of the money spent they demand futile tests bc they never have to see the cost.....
There's a lot of debate in the medical field as to how best handle the situation but it would be unwise to change to another system that has equal but different problems. Socialized healthcare works great if you're healthy. Also would you really want the government to be actively involved in your medical decisions? Dont you think that should be a private matter and joint decisions between you and your doctor? That wont happen in a socialized system

 

[baseball99]

Please post them again, I'm not familiar with any work on the number of nerves stimulated, or the parts of the brain involved. You do know that Masters and Johnson, oft quoted in the form "circumcision makes no difference" didn't study the foreskin at all?


Certainly, but cut nerves off = feel less is generally true and hardly rocket science.

Nah, they're somewhere on the site. I really dont see it beneficial to my time to run a search and find them

And no cut nerves off does not equal less feeling.....its not rocket science but biophysics

Reducing the number of red blood cells in the serum does not necessarily mean less oxygen delivery.....up to a point. Same with increasing the number of red blood cells does not necessarily mean increasing oxygen delivery. The body has amazing capabilities of compromising and making up for any potential defecits.....This is commonly seen in neurosurgery where the brain can frequently reroute and reconnect neuronal connections despite obvious damage

 

[baseball99]

It's also a human rights issue, but a very different one, because the personhood of the zygote-embryo-foetus-baby is a central part of the issue. The trouble with the abortion debate is that hardly anyone in it can get their heads around the (simple, I would have thought) fact that pregnancy is a process, and the central entity is not the same at the end as it was at the beginning.

Apart from that, I'm not going to get involved because (I'm guessing) if I don't grant that the newly fertilized zygote is a human being with the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, baseball is going to call me a hypocrite for maintaining that born babies have a right to keep all their penises (and clitorises).

So I'm going to leave him in the dark exactly what I think.

Just showing that all debates are not so black and white as people like to make them seem

 

[68306]

There is no black, and white men can't jump regardless.

I don't know where you live. I live in the US, a capitalist society that spends $400 billion a year on its military to invade sovereign nations, meanwhile most citizens cannot afford health care and go without.

Just a small figure in the wider extortion.


As for cutting the forskin... unless you are living in 3rd world poverty and have no water to even wash yourself...

DO NOT CUT!!!

Just let them cut themselves. Babies feel pain too,.. even if they can't remember it they will know it through life. It's easy to cut off the skin, hard to put it back on.

 

[SassySpy]

Now that I HAVE been following the thread, because I find your opinions fascinating- I will opine a little more too-
Firstly, I am really glad to have found this site and this particular thread- as I said, circumcision is something I feel very strongly about. I am also glad you guys are so open and honest about your feelings about the issue. It is a very personal one, and if Ive read correctly so far, none of the circumcised men had a choice, but some are not unhappy with the choice that was made for them.
From my perspective as a straight woman, I used to find the uncut penis incredibly ugly. I had probably only seen circumcised men in pictures etc, therefore anything else was different and unattractive. Ive long since grown up LOL- and appreciate men's penis's in every form. As for physical sensation for me as a woman, I can't always feel any difference when he is inside me- I may sometimes imagine I do- only because I KNOW if he is or isn't.
I have never had a son, and I'm glad- because I would have gone with the flow so to speak and had him circumcised, probably. Since my education in psychology, I surely would not- and primarily dor the reason I mentioned in my first post. No one's first experience with their body should be painful, I just think it MUST leave an imprint, somewhere in the recesses of consciousness.

Again, thank you all for the education this thread has provided me- I think you are all great for discussing it and having and maintaining your strong views.

Sassy

 

[Ganymede]

The money could come from the same place that the military budget comes from: the tax payers. Why do we support the biggest and most powerful military system in the world and yet we can't afford health care for our own citizens? The Iraq war costs the US several billions of dollars a year. If the money went to aiding US citizens, rather than terrorizing the rest of the world, and if health insurance companies in the US didn't charge outrageous prices (most operations overseas are about 1/3 the cost of what they are in the US), then there would be health care for all. The reason we don't have health care is because the powerful don't want us to have it.

At any rate, this is a topic for an entirely different thread.

I agree with you but what makes you think the government will actually provide good healthcare for all? There are major problems in socialist systems as well, believe me I have seen them. Yes, I am in the US. I dont agree with complete socialized healthcare.....why? Because where is this money going to come from?

 

[cdnboy87]

i say leave the boy's body alone. if he wants to get cut later (i don't know why he would but for arguments' sake), then he can go for it. it's not fair to automatically chop off his foreskin.

 

[baseball99]

The money could come from the same place that the military budget comes from: the tax payers. Why do we support the biggest and most powerful military system in the world and yet we can't afford health care for our own citizens? The Iraq war costs the US several billions of dollars a year. If the money went to aiding US citizens, rather than terrorizing the rest of the world, and if health insurance companies in the US didn't charge outrageous prices (most operations overseas are about 1/3 the cost of what they are in the US), then there would be health care for all. The reason we don't have health care is because the powerful don't want us to have it.

At any rate, this is a topic for an entirely different thread.

I agree that it is for an entirely different thread. But it is nowhere near as easy as you seem to make it out to be. Its not only the "powerful" its actually implimenting the ideas. Money is not forever flowing and who draws the line and where is it drawn? Should patients get everything they want because its free? How many more unecessary procedures would be performed bc people fuss about needing the full body CT scan which has proven not to have benefits outweigh the results? Who should decide medical treatment? I think healthcare should be affordable for all but i disagree that every aspect of healthcare should be free for all.....it doesnt work and I cant see supporting a new system full of equivalent but different flaws. Its a fascinating field if one really looks into it without any emotion. I still support the idea of making healthcare affordable for all, but I feel very strongly about keeping healthcare out of the governments hands.....how many things can the government do right and what makes anyone think that they can effectively and fairly provide healthcare for all citizens when they cant even get medicare/medicaid right

 

[B_dxjnorto]

How the hell did I miss this poll? Why did it close so early?

It's good to see everyone represent.

 

[BigA]

How the hell did I miss this poll? Why did it close so early?

It's good to see everyone represent.

Why did it close? I didn't even vote.

What no comments??? Even the anti-circumcision nazis must be tired of this topic

 

[B_dxjnorto]

Guess it's not going your way today BigA.

 

[HiJinx]

I was circ'd when I was 33. No matter how much I tried to keep it cleaned, my skin always smelled about 2 or 3 hours after washing. I tried other cleaning stuff but it didn't work either. After I was cut, what a difference it made! I wasn't as sensitive as before so I lasted longer. The first time I f***ed my guy, I couldn't believe how good it felt. I compare it to fucking in a baggy. I felt everything along my cock without that sliding of the foreskin like happened before.

When our son was born, we didn't have him circumcised because my partner and I felt he should have the choice. We will let him know that there are options leaning more toward the uncirc but leaving it to him.

 

[Ganymede]

Money isn't forever flowing? Try telling that to the people who made the decision to finance a war that is costing us $2-3 billion a month. Try telling that to the 1% of the population whose income has grown by over 5000% over the last three decades, while the majority of Americans have seen their income decrease by 20% in that same timeframe.

Money is not forever flowing ... if you're poor or middle class. It is certainly forever flowing for the upper class, however. The upper class is not experiencing the hard times as the rest of us.

Implimenting health care would be very simple. What isn't simple is that the powerful don't want it.

And, by the way, we already DO have a type of free health care in this country: it's called the Emergency Room. It is a law in the United States that you cannot turn anyone away from the emergency room. So, those without health insurance and who can't get treatment from a doctor end up going to the emergency room for things that are not emergencies. Talk about inefficient.

Answer this question for me: Why can't the US, the most powerful nation on earth, the most powerful military system the world has ever seen, not afford to provide health care for its own citizens, meanwhile places like Cuba can?

I'm not looking into this with "emotion." I'm looking into it with logic. This is the story throughout history: wealthy people being greedy. There is more than enough money to fund health care for all. There is not enough money, however, to fund continuous war across the globe, maintain an international empire with bases in just about every nation on the globe, and then provide health care for your citizens.

And don't be surprised when, as a result of outsourcing millions of jobs per year to other nations (such as India), your citizens can't afford your overpriced health care.

Anyway, this is a topic for another thread, one that I'm not actually that interested in talking about on this forum.

I agree that it is for an entirely different thread. But it is nowhere near as easy as you seem to make it out to be. Its not only the "powerful" its actually implimenting the ideas. Money is not forever flowing and who draws the line and where is it drawn? Should patients get everything they want because its free? How many more unecessary procedures would be performed bc people fuss about needing the full body CT scan which has proven not to have benefits outweigh the results? Who should decide medical treatment? I think healthcare should be affordable for all but i disagree that every aspect of healthcare should be free for all.....it doesnt work and I cant see supporting a new system full of equivalent but different flaws. Its a fascinating field if one really looks into it without any emotion. I still support the idea of making healthcare affordable for all, but I feel very strongly about keeping healthcare out of the governments hands.....how many things can the government do right and what makes anyone think that they can effectively and fairly provide healthcare for all citizens when they cant even get medicare/medicaid right