Getting Circumcized

[SassySpy]

Wow HiJinx (favorite game btw lol) that is some story from a very different perspective. I really hadn't thought much about the sensation for the man- so without the foreskin a man is better able to feel completely the erm, glove that encloses him? And uncut guys? Don't they have more sensation because of all that lovely foreskin to kind of 'enclose' themselves in?

and a comment about the smell- someone told me once it could be influenced a great deal by what you eat- and naturally all body chemistry is different- but I definitely know for a fact that being cut or uncut does not necessarily directly relate to cleanliness, ya know? and some guys are a bit more prone to minor infections similar to what women get- its a warm moist dark area and even if hygiene is 100%, bacteria are determined little pests!
Congrats on your son and the cutting decision.

 

[SassySpy]

>>>> Anyway, this is a topic for another thread, one that I'm not actually that interested in talking about on this forum. <<<<<<<

but you are right in many ways, Gany. Having lived in England for many years with a 'free' health care system, opened my eyes to a lot of things- its a strong heated debate usually with, as ya'll have demonstrated here, strong feelings on both sides. And there are advantages and disadvantages to both systems, imo.
As you said, topic for another thread, maybe even a different forum, lol- but certainly no less important than the topic that started it.

Sassy

 

[Ganymede]

Sassy: I think that many Americans are just very hung up on what we are taught in this country, namely, that this is the best country in the world and that every citizen of every other nation wishes they lived here. (If we are not literally taught this, it is basically implied to us in our educational system.) Therefore, it's just a shock to the system of many Americans when they consider that some things may be better in other countries.

I don't remember the name of the survey, but there was a recent survey published which ranked the best nations on earth to live in. The US came in at about 8th. Canada was ahead at 6th. And, I believe, Norway came in at #1. I think this would be a shock to most Americans.

Anyway, my point in this is that most Americans do believe myths like, "We don't have free health care in this country because there is not an endless supply of money. The government can't afford." Somehow, they conveniently overlook the fact that the US government manages to afford a great many things that are not vital to maintaining the country, the most obvious example being the war in Iraq. (Remember, we were told it was necessary because it was a matter of national security. All lies.) It's just not an acceptable concept for some Americans that the US government's system is ultimately flawed. The US public has been brainwashed into beleiving that US capitalism is the only system that can work, and whenever anyone suggests otherwise, suggests that a nation where profits are not put before people may be a better system, it's just not conceivable. It is pushed aside as "not realistic," which is just a way of saying that powerful people don't want it to happen.

 

[SassySpy]

You are right on the 'money' Gany- I agree and can cite examples from here to forever but bet you can too. Im glad to be american for the freedom it affords- but we are certainly not the most desirable places to live and we are constantly and consistently lied to by our government. From the discovery of these shores by the English and descendants became the 'new true americans', our government has lied and plundered for its own gains- not for the good of the people, but for the power it holds. And dont get me going on Iraq!! In fact I wasnt gonna say anything at all about my political opinions, but again, when i have opinions, they are very strong ones and I am a runner of the mouth when i get the chance.
But it is something I wish more people would think about with an open mind, rather than a mind that has been shaped by popular opinion ( not speaking of anyone here, btw- just generally so noone be offended please)
and thats another reason Ive noticed sometimes these threads get a bit heated. Its easy to misconstrue someone comments especially when not speaking f2f and there is such a delay here between comment and reply.
*sigh*
ooohh maybe we should have a convention!!!!

 

[BigA]

Guess it's not going your way today BigA.

i don't have a way bro. Thx for not being judgmental tho.

that is to say, i have no prob with the trend of the U.S. going to not circumcise, yet i will defend my familiys decision til i die

 

[B_dxjnorto]

that is to say, i have no prob with the trend of the U.S. going to not circumcise, yet i will defend my family's decision til i die

Why?

 

[baseball99]

Money isn't forever flowing? Try telling that to the people who made the decision to finance a war that is costing us $2-3 billion a month. Try telling that to the 1% of the population whose income has grown by over 5000% over the last three decades, while the majority of Americans have seen their income decrease by 20% in that same timeframe.

Money is not forever flowing ... if you're poor or middle class. It is certainly forever flowing for the upper class, however. The upper class is not experiencing the hard times as the rest of us.

Implimenting health care would be very simple. What isn't simple is that the powerful don't want it.

And, by the way, we already DO have a type of free health care in this country: it's called the Emergency Room. It is a law in the United States that you cannot turn anyone away from the emergency room. So, those without health insurance and who can't get treatment from a doctor end up going to the emergency room for things that are not emergencies. Talk about inefficient.

Answer this question for me: Why can't the US, the most powerful nation on earth, the most powerful military system the world has ever seen, not afford to provide health care for its own citizens, meanwhile places like Cuba can?

I'm not looking into this with "emotion." I'm looking into it with logic. This is the story throughout history: wealthy people being greedy. There is more than enough money to fund health care for all. There is not enough money, however, to fund continuous war across the globe, maintain an international empire with bases in just about every nation on the globe, and then provide health care for your citizens.

And don't be surprised when, as a result of outsourcing millions of jobs per year to other nations (such as India), your citizens can't afford your overpriced health care.

Anyway, this is a topic for another thread, one that I'm not actually that interested in talking about on this forum.

You bring up very interesting points.....I just dont agree with all of them and I experience them as a patient and from the other side. I pay for healthcare personally, as do many people. Like I said already, I agree with amking it affordable, but not for free. I dont disagree with you on war however, in regards to healthcare I still cant see trading problems. And by the way, I too, am middle class

 

[prepstudinsc]

I wished I had a choice. It was a standard procedure in 1973. Parents had to request not to have it done back then, but now it's hard to find somebody in the Charlotte region to do it. A co-worker had a son last year and he asked me if I knew of a doctor that performed circs. I asked why and he told me that he wanted his son circumcised and could'nt find anyone to do it. I was sure the hospital would do it, but my co-worker said it was'nt standard procedure anymore (....in any of the Charlotte hospitals.) and that he had to locate a doctor to do it.I told him to go to Temple Israel, Beth-El or Or HaTorah and find a rabbi.He said that was'nt an option because he's not jewish.

I had friends who had a son last year at CMC-Pineville and had him circumcised without any problem. They discussed it beforehand that he'd be cut and when he was born, the procedure was done the following day.
I went to visit them a matter a few hours after it was done and he was just sleeping soundly and my friends were talking about him being circumcised openly. LOL

 

[unhappilycut]

His body, his choice. I'd never have my son cut, no matter who tries to pressure me. I wish I'd had the choice.

 

[Magic 8]

Yep, forget about all the patient care, treatment, managing chronic diseases......doctors are in it for the money. Seems like a very poor business idea if you think about it. In the US the average debt of doctors is roughly 150,000.....that means 50% have >150 and even 225,000 is common. So we go through 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school and then come out making around 45,000 while working 80+ hours a week which comes out to be just around minimum wage for 3-5 years. Then add a couple grand to that with the same hours for a 1-3 year fellowship. Most of the circumcisions are done by residents anyways, who have absolutely no money incentive to performing the procedure, in fact, I'm sure every single resident would rather be sleeping than doing the procedure. Do the hospitals make money off it, sure.....but not the residents. And the hospitals dont even really pay the residents, the salaries are determined through medicare. Most doctors do not have a biased opinion towards circumcision and most doctors dont perform the procedure. I have met doctors who have biases but most dont.

Sometimes posts remind me of a patient in the clinic once that called one of the doctors a selfish asshole bc he wouldnt prescribe the "exact" medication a patient wanted, bc it was not indicated.....SHe then went on to yell at him for being greedy and not caring about certain groups of people. She shut up pretty quickly when he told her 1/4 of his day is spent treating patients that he knows will never be able to pay for services, on top of spending 4-8 weeks a year around the world working in 3rd world countries volunteering his time at his expense,on top of arguing with insurance companies so patients can get the meds and or procedures they need.....I know thats only one doctor, but most doctors are really good at heart but its a combination of the system and non-complaince that really numbs you after a while and it begins to hurt too much to care at such a high level eery day.

I work in sales and I make no commission, but I am happy when sales are up because I know then I won't get shit about low sales.

Everyone in the medical field makes a lot of money, compared to the rest of the population.

In addition to the money, there is an extreme amount of ego in the medical field.

In addition to the ego, there are also many mistakes. Have you heard the statistics about how many people have instruments sewn up in them per year?

In addition to the ego, there is personal bias. Most doctors in the US are from a Christian background. Most doctors, or whoever performs circumcisions, are circumcised themselves and therefore think it's perfectly fine. Few in the medical profession are going to offer a point/counter-point argument to the parents.

My sister is a nurse. She recently lost her job for turning in a well respected doctor for coming to work with alcohol on his breath and for looking at porn on the hospital computer. She is the one who has informed me how well doctors are treated, that they get away with so much. She is the one who has enligthened me as to how much ego there is in the profession. She is also the one who enligthened me to how much money there is. She has a bachelor's degree, yet she makes $80,000 a year.

I'm god-damned sick and tired of the holier-than-thou attitude most medical professionals have. You are not gods. You are human beings who learned a skill, like everyone else who performs a job. Get off your fuckin' high horses!

Guys, I'm Pre-Med and will be starting Medical School next fall. By the time I finish school, do my residency and pass my boards I will be somewhere in the neighborhood of $400,000.00 in debt IF I can find reasonable Mal-Pratice insurance. My roommates Dad is a General Praticioner in Southern California. He has never had a mal-practice suit filled against him in his 30 years of practice. His mal-practice premium is just over a quarter of a milion a year. He said it took him almost 15 years to get all his debts paid from going to Medical school.

Once I finish school my view on circumcision will be that it's the parents choice. I will not try to influence them either way. I will insure that they are making an informed decision by pointing out different resources for information on the Pros as well as the Cons of the procedure.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

I will insure that they are making an informed decision by pointing out different resources for information on the Pros as well as the Cons of the procedure.

I can name a lot of cons, but I don't know any pros. Name some pros for us.

 

[Magic 8]

I can name a lot of cons, but I don't know any pros. Name some pros for us.

There are plenty of resources available that are on either side of the issue. They can do their own research and than make their own decision.

Quit being such a tard and stop trying to read more into my post than what is there.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

I'm not trying to be a 'tard, I'm trying to make it real. If you say there are pros, you should be able to list some.

Here I'll list some cons to get you started:

More than eighty percent of the world's men have the penises they were born with. Circumcision is the exception, not the rule.

The natural genitalia are a birthright. As such, circumcision is a human rights conundrum. How can a man's right to choose be preempted when he is a day old?

Everyone has the right to unmolested sexual development.

No medical organization in the world recommends neonatal circumcision.

As a parent, doctor or care provider you may feel stupid later. What twelve year old can't google up circumcision these days? Worse, you may be held liable. There have been a few precedent setting cases already.

We're pretty much at a tipping point in the U.S. Currently circumcision is hovering in the low fiftieth percentile and heading lower--much lower in some regions, including Canada.

The glans is an internal organ.

The foreskin is like a warm skin cocoon. It protects the penis from cold and from discomfort in underclothing.

The foreskin is highly innervated.

The foreskin glides, facilitating penetration.

Circumcision hurts.

Circumcision may scar men psychologically as well as physically.

Here's some more: Recent Medical Studies On Circumcision

Your turn.

 

[Snozzle]

the anti-circumcision nazis

Godwin's Law. Bzzt. Thank you for playing.

 

[Snozzle]

Nah, they're somewhere on the site. I really dont see it beneficial to my time to run a search and find them

And no cut nerves off does not equal less feeling.....its not rocket science but biophysics

Reducing the number of red blood cells in the serum does not necessarily mean less oxygen delivery.....up to a point. Same with increasing the number of red blood cells does not necessarily mean increasing oxygen delivery. The body has amazing capabilities of compromising and making up for any potential defecits.....This is commonly seen in neurosurgery where the brain can frequently reroute and reconnect neuronal connections despite obvious damage

Baseball seems to fall into argument by analogy without even noticing he's doing it. And then he chooses such rotten analogies....

I strongly suspect that the brain of a newly circumcised baby does repopulate the region that has been waiting in vain for stimulation from the foreskin, with nerves from a nearby region, often the glans. Only the nerves are not the Meissner's corpuscles that are specialised for subtle sensations, but nerves for pressure, heat and pain. How else to explain the way cut men get pleasure from wringing out their penises in a way that would have an intact man screaming in agony?

 

[baseball99]

Baseball seems to fall into argument by analogy without even noticing he's doing it. And then he chooses such rotten analogies....

I strongly suspect that the brain of a newly circumcised baby does repopulate the region that has been waiting in vain for stimulation from the foreskin, with nerves from a nearby region, often the glans. Only the nerves are not the Meissner's corpuscles that are specialised for subtle sensations, but nerves for pressure, heat and pain. How else to explain the way cut men get pleasure from wringing out their penises in a way that would have an intact man screaming in agony?

The funny thing is you think you're being logical when you dont even understand the concepts. I also have seen people who get pleasure from sticking huge fish hooks in their skin and being suspended in the air......you know pleasurable for them but would have most people screaming in agony

the study i cited months ago is somewhere on the site. if it was worth the argument i would find it.....but why bother

also, those arguments are logical if you understand the concepts.....also meissner corpuscles are not necessarily pleasure centers as your post alludes too. It's cool to throw around big words so mine for the day is golgi tendon organ......discuss amongst yourself

 

[jcxrm]

Circumcision, like keeping your head, even most of your body, covered from the sun, not eating pork (it goes off quickly) reserving your left hand for wiping your arse, were perfectly sensible rules for primative tribes wandering the deserts, but are totally irrelevant to todays environment.

 

[baseball99]

Circumcision, like keeping your head, even most of your body, covered from the sun, not eating pork (it goes off quickly) reserving your left hand for wiping your arse, were perfectly sensible rules for primative tribes wandering the deserts, but are totally irrelevant to todays environment.

obviously circumcision is not recommended by any medical group (that i know of currently) but limiting exposure to sun is highly recommended especially considering all skin cancers are some of the cancers fastest increasing

 

[chico8]

Circumcision, like keeping your head, even most of your body, covered from the sun, not eating pork (it goes off quickly) reserving your left hand for wiping your arse, were perfectly sensible rules for primative tribes wandering the deserts, but are totally irrelevant to todays environment.

How did the enjoyment of sex become irrelevant?

Your mutiliated and dried out knob is primitive compared to the real thing.

 

[baseball99]

How did the enjoyment of sex become irrelevant?

Your mutiliated and dried out knob is primitive compared to the real thing.

perfect demonstration of you not being able to read posts


he was saying circumcision is unecessary