Girl identified as "Black Girl" in yearbook

[13788]

carolinacurious:

Originally posted by ashlar@May 24 2005, 10:33 PM
My question is, what's so wrong with being a black girl?

[post=314429]Quoted post[/post]​

YES! Good Answer.

Kyle: Our main point is that the flag shouldn't offend anyone, because killing has been around since the bieginning of time. All animals kill. And the animals that don't kill are stupid ones, like cows and turtles and stuff. So people should not be so upset about killing. [returns to his seat amid a smattering of applause]
Chef: [stands up] Whoa whoa whooaa! You just missed the point entirely!
Kyle: Huh?
Chef: I'm not mad because the flag shows somebody gettin' killed, It's because it's racist!
Kyle's Team: [minus Stan] Racist??
Chef: Children, don't you even know what this argument is about?! That flag is racist because a black man is being hung by white people.
Kyle's Team: [minus Stan] Ooooooohhh.
Chef: Ooooooohhh?!
Kyle: W-we really didn't see it that way.
Chef: But that's a black man up there!
Kyle: Y-yeah, but… the color of someone's skin doesn't matter.
Chef: Well of course it matters when- [catches himself] …Oh my God. Wait a minute. You children didn't even see the flag as a black man being hanged by white people, did you?
Kyle's Team: [minus Stan] No.
Chef: [deducing, marveling] Why, that is- that is the most beautiful thing I have ever heard.
Mayor: What?
Mr. Wyland: What?
Chef: Don't you see? All this time I thought these little crackers had turned racist, when actuallih they were so not racist that they didn't even make a separation of black and white to begin with. All they saw when they looked at that flag was five people.
....
Chef: I think that's a much better start than me tryin' to separate myself from all you wonderful crackers.

sorry, seem to have South Park on the brain lately.

 

[surferboy]

Originally posted by prepstudinsc@May 25 2005, 01:04 AM
The whole question stems as to why anything needed to even have been put in...no place marker needed to have been put. A blank line could have sufficed, "insert name here" or even "unknown student" would have worked, too. There's no need to use the racial indicator as a name. I'm still puzzled as to how no one knew who she was or what her name was. Certainly somebody had to have a class with her or the advisor could have had some way to find out who she was. The whole thing is kind of fishy.

[post=314421]Quoted post[/post]​

I don't think there was any malice meant behind it though. Like, it's just a way of describing someone. I've said it before, there's no such thing as being racially color blind; and in this aspect, it wasn't any kind of profiling. She happens to be a girl who is black. As I'm a mulatto boy. As Jacinto is a Cuban guy. As Ashar is a white guy. As Oprah Winfrey is a black woman. No malice meant by it. Though like, as a former editor of a yearbook, I think they should have left it blank. Still, if there was like, an ill intent behind it, they would have been waaaay more harsh than "black girl."

 

[ashlar]

Originally posted by carolinacurious+May 25 2005, 12:44 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(carolinacurious &#064; May 25 2005, 12:44 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-ashlar@May 24 2005, 10:33 PM
My question is, what&#39;s so wrong with being a black girl?

[post=314429]Quoted post[/post]​

YES&#33; Good Answer.

Kyle: Our main point is that the flag shouldn&#39;t offend anyone, because killing has been around since the bieginning of time. All animals kill. And the animals that don&#39;t kill are stupid ones, like cows and turtles and stuff. So people should not be so upset about killing. [returns to his seat amid a smattering of applause]
Chef: [stands up] Whoa whoa whooaa&#33; You just missed the point entirely&#33;
Kyle: Huh?
Chef: I&#39;m not mad because the flag shows somebody gettin&#39; killed, It&#39;s because it&#39;s racist&#33;
Kyle&#39;s Team: [minus Stan] Racist??
Chef: Children, don&#39;t you even know what this argument is about?&#33; That flag is racist because a black man is being hung by white people.
Kyle&#39;s Team: [minus Stan] Ooooooohhh.
Chef: Ooooooohhh?&#33;
Kyle: W-we really didn&#39;t see it that way.
Chef: But that&#39;s a black man up there&#33;
Kyle: Y-yeah, but… the color of someone&#39;s skin doesn&#39;t matter.
Chef: Well of course it matters when- [catches himself] …Oh my God. Wait a minute. You children didn&#39;t even see the flag as a black man being hanged by white people, did you?
Kyle&#39;s Team: [minus Stan] No.
Chef: [deducing, marveling] Why, that is- that is the most beautiful thing I have ever heard.
Mayor: What?
Mr. Wyland: What?
Chef: Don&#39;t you see? All this time I thought these little crackers had turned racist, when actuallih they were so not racist that they didn&#39;t even make a separation of black and white to begin with. All they saw when they looked at that flag was five people.
....
Chef: I think that&#39;s a much better start than me tryin&#39; to separate myself from all you wonderful crackers.

sorry, seem to have South Park on the brain lately.

[post=314431]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

*falls over laughing*
Exactly.

 

[ashlar]

Originally posted by surferboy+May 25 2005, 12:49 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(surferboy &#064; May 25 2005, 12:49 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-prepstudinsc@May 25 2005, 01:04 AM
The whole question stems as to why anything needed to even have been put in...no place marker needed to have been put. A blank line could have sufficed, "insert name here" or even "unknown student" would have worked, too. There&#39;s no need to use the racial indicator as a name. I&#39;m still puzzled as to how no one knew who she was or what her name was. Certainly somebody had to have a class with her or the advisor could have had some way to find out who she was. The whole thing is kind of fishy.

[post=314421]Quoted post[/post]​

I don&#39;t think there was any malice meant behind it though. Like, it&#39;s just a way of describing someone. I&#39;ve said it before, there&#39;s no such thing as being racially color blind; and in this aspect, it wasn&#39;t any kind of profiling. She happens to be a girl who is black. As I&#39;m a mulatto boy. As Jacinto is a Cuban guy. As Ashar is a white guy. As Oprah Winfrey is a black woman. No malice meant by it. Though like, as a former editor of a yearbook, I think they should have left it blank. Still, if there was like, an ill intent behind it, they would have been waaaay more harsh than "black girl."

[post=314432]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

yeah like ... stilly moon cricket girl ... or ... darkie chick ... or something retarded like that.

(I grew up hearing a lot of that rubbish)

 

[prepstudinsc]

The whole thing about it though is that the Faculty Advisor AND the Editor should have caught it. It should NEVER have gone to press with that line in it. The fact that it did is wrong. There are worse things that she should have been called. It is obvious that she&#39;s a Black girl, but why the need to point it out? Why couldnt&#39; htey have left it blank or just put in "Need Name"? Why make a racial thing? That&#39;s the point. There are other terms that could have been used that did not use any kind of racial terminology, not that "Black Girl" is offensive, because there are many other things that are a lot harsher, but it&#39;s just the premise that instead of using something that was not racially oriented, they stupidly chose to do so.

As to your use to the word mulatto to describe yourself, I didn&#39;t think that you had any African heritage in you. Technically, mulatto is a person of mixed black/white parentage, and the children of a mulatto and a white parent are a quadroon. The offspring of a quadroon and a white parent would be an octoroon. According to the American Heritage Dictionary, the terms mulatto, quadroon, and octoroon originated with the racial policies of European colonizers in the Americas, especially the Spanish. Because civil rights and responsibilities were based directly on the degree of European blood that a person had, such classifications were highly elaborated, and minor distinctions in ancestry were carefully recorded. While these terms have highly precise definitions, in actual practice they were often used based on impressions of skin color rather than definite knowledge of ancestry.

 

[mindseye]

The defective pages have been reprinted. They now read:

Row 1: White Boy, White Girl, White Girl, White Girl, White Boy, White Girl
Row 2: White Girl, Black Girl, White Boy, White Boy, White Girl, White Boy
Row 3: White Boy, White Boy, White Girl, White Girl
Standing: White Girl, White Boy

 

[ashlar]

Originally posted by prepstudinsc@May 25 2005, 08:13 AM
It is obvious that she&#39;s a Black girl, but why the need to point it out? Why couldnt&#39; htey have left it blank or just put in "Need Name"? Why make a racial thing? That&#39;s the point. There are other terms that could have been used that did not use any kind of racial terminology, not that "Black Girl" is offensive, because there are many other things that are a lot harsher, but it&#39;s just the premise that instead of using something that was not racially oriented, they stupidly chose to do so.

[post=314492]Quoted post[/post]​

Granted, it&#39;s Texas so I reckon it is a racial thing. I just don&#39;t understand why it has to be seen like that. Why be so offended over a colour. It&#39;s no better than any other colour, though everyone has their favorites. Thus far I think Carolina is the only one who&#39;s getting my point.

 

[surferboy]

As to your use to the word mulatto to describe yourself, I didn&#39;t think that you had any African heritage in you. Technically, mulatto is a person of mixed black/white parentage, and the children of a mulatto and a white parent are a quadroon.

Actually, Jacinto already went over that. A mulatto isn&#39;t just a person with black in them. I think he said it&#39;s Portugese for "mixed race" or something like that, which is what I am. But like, I think people are making a bigger deal of this than it should be. It wasn&#39;t said in the sense of "Look&#33; She&#39;s black&#33;" they put it in because, that&#39;s what she is. Though I fully agree it should have been left blank or something.

 

[jay_too]

Yea in retrospect, it is insensitive, tasteless, and probably hurtful. I think that it was also innocent. Undoubtedly, the guy who did it was trying to "hold" a place for the girl in the picture that he did not know. I remember a couple of times when the caption listing names under a picture in the high school newspaper would skip a person and onetime, the result was one of the starting linemen was identified as "Amy Whatever."

Did we enjoy it? You betcha. For a week or so, he was fair game. How many times in the shower did he have to hear, "Damn, that is a fine ass&#33;" or have a buddy throw his arm around "Amy" in the hallway and announce, "We are going steady."

I am certain the culprit and his editor are truly sorry.

jay

 

[naughty]

Hi,
This is a fascinating topic. IT is difficult to articulate why this would have been a sensitive issue but I am going to try. I think because over the years so much has been made of physical features in terms of race and status in this country, I think that the idea of being singled out (even though it was a mistake) raises hackles. Not knowing what this particular person may have endured because of race it has made the whole subject of racial typing a hyper sensitive issue. I think Prep made a good point that because people are categorized according to the perceptions others make on the issue of race purely by appearance it hit a nerve. All you have to do is look and see that the race and personal preference thread is still going strong even though there are many who feel "enough already&#33; " People have suffered in real ways because of the prejudices on all sides about those that do not look like one&#39;s self. I want to relay an incident that occured while I was on a panel about Latina beauty ( Dont even ask&#33; LOL&#33; ) .I saw accomplished professional women crying over incidents that they experienced as children because of appearance. These were beautiful women&#33; Yet because their appearances displayed more of the indian blood. or african blood that in combination with european blood makes up so many New World latins, they were discriminated against or told they were not attractive. It was especially painful when preferences were made towards the sibling who looked more "European" in appearance. Our own stunning Mme Z. was called everything but a child of god as a child by people who only saw her beautifully dark olive skin and proclaimd her unworthy. She was "A black girl" which is not intrinsically wrong in itself but the repercusions in self concept and isolation were dramatic.
I know it seems like I have probably made a mountain out of a mole hill but this is a bit of why the label "black girl:" may have affected the object of this title differently from how it may have affected a "white girl or boy".



Naughty

 

[Irvy]

In any majority-minority situation, the norm is that the majority have no defining prefix (in a school full of white people, nobody is "white" anything), whilst the minorities do. I spent most of my teenage years living in England, and for that time, I was "the Irish guy" wherever I went. Now I&#39;m back home, I&#39;m not. In a school where the majority of people were black, any white kids would be called as such.

We really need, as a planet, to stop being so word sensitive. We&#39;re limiting our language, just like in 1984. We&#39;re being told which words we cannot use. I agree that names used in an aggressive verbal attack can hurt, but it&#39;s the aggression that hurts, not the words. Any words can bve used offensively if said in the right tone.

So many times I&#39;ve asked someone who was asking me if I knew someone, to describe them for me. It&#39;s hilarious to watch them stumble, as they realise that if they say "that black fat kid with glasses" they&#39;re being offensive, but they cannot easily describe that person&#39;s looks without using those words.

It&#39;s all about chilling out a bit, and not being so ready to jump onto your high horse because someone used a prohibited word, or told a joke about a specific group of people.

After all, have you ever seen an Irish man offended by an Irishman joke?

 

[naughty]

Irvy,

Perhaps you might have heard an Irish man in America react in that fashion from the mid 19th century through parts of the 20th due to prejudices that were endured by them at the hands of those who thought that they had no rights to the fruits of the New World. Watch the movie, "Gangs of New York" . I know we would love for people not to be hypersensitive but until we are all seen as "Colorless" ( I mean this in terms of equality, status, desireability) this hair trigger reaction may remain. I like your attitude darlin&#39; though...


Naughty

 

[Irvy]

I&#39;m not talking about or condoning racism, prejudice, or the mistreatment of any person. All I&#39;m talking about is not throwing a hissy fit because someone calls you black, white, orange, fat, skinny, irish, queer, or whatever.

 

[db03]

I&#39;m irish and I&#39;m the one telling all the Irishman jokes when I&#39;m drunk&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

 

[GottaBigOne]

One of the funniest things (Or saddest) is that in the article they say that she was the only "Black Girl in the photo" I think this was a typo was was supposed to mean the only black girl in the school. If that is true, and they weren&#39;t sure of her name, then that reveals that she was most likely known as "that black girl" throughout the school, and no one knew her name.

 

[major_7]

I can see the points of view that many of you are offering. Mindseye&#39;s message was funny but also showed some keen insight. And yes, there is nothing wrong with being a black girl, and we should all get over having to define everything by color, and we should not be afraid to use descriptive words to identify someone etc.

However, there is no excuse for the people responsible for writing "Black Girl" instead of writing the young woman&#39;s name. As many posters have already said, how could nobody have not known her name?? To be perfectly blunt, the use of the term "girl" or "boy" when referring to young Americans who happen to be black still to this day can carry a racially charged message.

Now before everyone freaks out and starts saying "What? Now we can&#39;t say boy or girl either?" understand that I am talking about how and when the word is presented. I don&#39;t happen to be black, but I can feel the hatred when some people say "black girl". It&#39;s the same way they say "gays", "men", "fat people", "republicans", "liberals" and of course the list goes on.

 

[prepstudinsc]

Originally posted by surferboy@May 25 2005, 02:32 PM
Actually, Jacinto already went over that. A mulatto isn&#39;t just a person with black in them. I think he said it&#39;s Portugese for "mixed race" or something like that, which is what I am. But like, I think people are making a bigger deal of this than it should be. It wasn&#39;t said in the sense of "Look&#33; She&#39;s black&#33;" they put it in because, that&#39;s what she is. Though I fully agree it should have been left blank or something.

[post=314581]Quoted post[/post]​

I hate to be picky here, but I&#39;m going to be. Since I have friends who are bi-racial, and some who are the children of bi-racial parents, and who technically are the definition of "mulatto", I hate to differ with you wor DMW. I have done some research on a couple of websites dedicated to the struggles that people of African-American and White mixed heritage can go through, and also through several encyclopediae, ALL refer to Mulatto as the correct definition as someone who is racially mixed between African and European heritage. Some people like to refer to themselves as bi-racial or tri-racial, because especially in the US, there is a lot of Native American blood mixed in, too.

According to Wikipedia, "Mulatto (also Mulato) is a term of Spanish and/or Portuguese origin describing first-generation offspring of African and European ancestry. Formerly a feminine form, mulattress was formed on analogy with "negress." The forms "mulatta/mulata" survive in Spanish and Portuguese. Thus, though many Americans of Hispanic and/or Latino origin identify themselves as mulatto, the term is rarely used by non-Hispanic African Americans.

In colonial years the term originally referred to the children of one European and one African parent, or the children of two mulatto parents. During this era a myriad of other terms, both in Latin America and the USA, were in use to denote other individuals of African/European ancestry in ratios smaller or greater than the 50:50 of mulattos: "octoroon" for example. Today, mulatto refers to all people with significant amounts of both European and African ancestry.

The origin of the term is that it derives from "mula", the Spanish word for mule, once a generic designation name for any hybrid. As a result, it is considered offensive by some English-speakers, who might prefer the term "biracial" instead. Interestingly, Spanish-speakers do not consider "mulatto" offensive. An alternate etymology traces mulatto to the Arabic muwallad, which means "a person of mixed race or ancestry".

An interesting site about mixed race people, including some famous people (past and present). It also talks about how some people didn&#39;t feel like they fit in either culture BUT learned to embrace both cultures.
The Mulatto People

So, I hate to be the one to do it, but I think this time DMW has a wrong definition of what the word means, and you are using it to define yourself as something you&#39;re not.

 

[B_DoubleMeatWhopper]

The word was originally used to designate the Cariocas of Rio de Janeiro. (Mulatto is the Portuguese spelling; mulato is Spanish.) Originally, it had nothing to do with a 50/50 ratio of black to white blood. That&#39;s a much later use of the term. In Latin America, the word is still used for anyone who can be termed mestizo, and it is not considered pejorative. I realise what the standard American definition is, but I was providing Nix with a decidedly non-PC word that would caused some raised eyebrows. Nix and I both like doing that kind of stuff. Though using the word mulatto to describe someone who is not at least partially black is not particularly accurate in modern parlance, the reactions it gets from people who are not expecting such a word is priceless&#33; BTW, even today, the octaroons of New Orleans refer to themselves as mulatto.

 

[13788]

hung_big:

Originally posted by surferboy@May 25 2005, 01:26 AM
Chris, "sardonic" is the right word of choice. I was talking about sardonic humor.

[post=314425]Quoted post[/post]​

Oh true&#33; I completely misinterperted that. Sorry...my mistake

Yes, I too find if to be very....hmm...tactless and distained of the school to do something like that, as I mentioned before.

Like mindseye said, it&#39;s an inexcusible mistake, because it is something that should never have happened, let alone have it published. I am suprised the girl kept her composure through all of this.

 

[blackwood]

Originally posted by DeeBlackthorne@May 24 2005, 05:04 AM
I don&#39;t see what&#39;s so humorous about this. It&#39;s plainly offensive and shows an incomprehensible lack of common sense and decency as shown by the school. (Never mind that they couldn&#39;t just leave the name *blank* since they didn&#39;t know the girl&#39;s name for cryin&#39; out loud. WTF?)

Could&#39;ve been White Girl, Black Girl, Hispanic Girl, Chinese Girl, Fag... not cool at all any way you go. :angry:

[post=314097]Quoted post[/post]​

--------------


Dee.........

I agree and find this repesentative of Extremism(?sp) so embarrasing that you want to scream&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;.

and........worse yet, WHY, Why would any "leader" at any "level" ignore that this is a true feeling of ....................................."The 51%s". Not a criticism of religion but ot the man with the thoughts.


b............