Give/Accept/Receive

[goodwood]

In our lives we meet people that for some unknown reason we meet with and seem to connect with.
Upon further knowing it becomes clear that one of us wants to give to the other and have that one accept our giving. That would make us happy to be able to give to someone that could benefit from our gift.
The thing is - the one we happily give to is not able to receive our giving to them.
Huh.
Then, THAT person wants to give to YOU.
As it turns out, they are not so hot at receiving what you want to give them (even thought they would die to be able to accept it) but they have a lot to give to you.
So here we are - I want to give to you. You don't know how to receive it so i will turn the tables and give to you, but i don't know how to receive it.
In relationships (i am posting this from highly dysfunctional, WASPY land) when we are so wounded, somehow it helps us to heal to be able to give.
When we want to give so deeply and so completely, that is the most wonderful thing to have our giving received and welcomed.
When our giving is rejected, it tantamount to our own selves being rejected.
I mention this because many people have wanted to and have given themselves to me with no strings attached and i have rejected their noble and honest gifts.
I have given my whole heart happily to help any number of people - sometimes accepted, many times rejected.
No one ever explained to me that while giving is necessary, we can't force acceptance of what we offer.
No one ever taught me that when people sincerely offer in my best interest that it is all right to accept.
This whole thing made sense like 10 minutes ago, but i suppose the short of it is: it is an art form unto itself to be able to have the strength of character to accept help.
This coming from a person who is happy to give and ashamed to receive, but happy to see other people do better than me when i reach out to them and they receive what little kindness i have to offer.
Anyone have the Joey from Friends proposed Chandler and Monica wedding speech about the having and giving, giving and receiving? lol

 

[goodwood]

SO in short: i am for crap at receiving positive attention. I seem to meet people that are the same way. I hope that when sincerely proffered it might be received by myself or the intended party in good faith.

 

[Mandee]

Wow... that was confusing.

 

[B_Jennuine73]

It is really hard to accept sometimes. It is easier to give for me and I have had to work on accepting as well.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

This is something most people don't understand.

It is the GIVER who GETS.

Giving can be a very selfish thing... Giving puts the person you give to in the position of indebtedness.... And no, I do not mean merely as in a loan of money...

I mean that the person who Gives gets to feel good about themselves, they get the warm feeling of being the helpful, generous and 'selfless' one...

And the receiver gets to feel like someone has done them a favor... which creates a form of obligation.

When you look at the potlatch ceremonies of the Pacific Northwest native Americans, you see that Giving can be a form of transfer of status. The same is true in Asian countries in the sense of what they call " face".

In giving materially, or emotionally, to another, you take face from them, and transfer it to yourself.


Socially, the perennial Giver is the one who is trying to entrench a sense of obligation in others.
People who are always giving, and refusing to allow others to give back, are actually trying to gain a power over those they give to... they often expect that 'selflessness' to be returned in the way of security, fidelity, and appreciation...

This is not really selfless... its self centered. IT is giving as a way to keep someone tied to you, or keep them from abandoning you.




But Giving DOES feel good.

Paradoxically, One of the greatest gifts you CAN give to another is the opportunity to give to you. To be of help.
Allowing others to be of assistance in return gives them the gift of feeling helpful... of repaying a social debt they owe you for the things you have done for them.

To be able to graciously accept others' Giving helps create a balance, and prevent the accrual of obligation.


If you are an inveterate Giver, who can not accept giving from others... stop patting yourself on the back...
You are nothing but a social loan shark... making sure that everyone owes you and that you owe nothing to anyone.

 

[Scrufuss]

gimme chips...

 

[hung]

I agree with the last paragraph of Phil, just above this.

 

[Scrufuss]

I agree with the last paragraph of Phil, just above this.

Me to.

 

[goodwood]

yeah. i agree too. gimme chips. sorry gang. ran into a bevy of ex-girlfriends last night at the charity thing, almost hooked up with a new girl, but didn't. If anyone will second the motion, i vote to have this thread deleted. thanks and sorry.

 

[CALAMBO]

reflection of life is important...i just returned from a funeral today..have been sad most of the day...i can relate, but death and life does make one realize that life is short...enjoy all that we can...give and recieve...enjoy everyday and definety love the one your with...as you leave the grave site not much else matters anymore except memories and family...

 

[beretta8]

giving and receiving can be a trap....the giver may expect you to take what is offered, whether you need it or not....if the gift is denied the giver just may turn and expect you to be gone...forever...receiving can also be viewed as selfish...why not take what is offered every time and just go with the flow........negative aspects of give and take I always need to be conscious of....

 

[got_lost]

I agree with the last paragraph of Phil, just above this.

Do you?
It just made me feel sick.
Even helping people now is considered selfish?!!? WTF?!

Though it does remind me of another Friends moment when Phoebe was trying to prove that just that wasn't true.

I'll come back to this... need food and sleep first.
I thought it was an interesting post by the OP...

 

[B_cigarbabe]

This is something most people don't understand.

It is the GIVER who GETS.

Giving can be a very selfish thing... Giving puts the person you give to in the position of indebtedness.... And no, I do not mean merely as in a loan of money...

I mean that the person who Gives gets to feel good about themselves, they get the warm feeling of being the helpful, generous and 'selfless' one...

And the receiver gets to feel like someone has done them a favor... which creates a form of obligation.

When you look at the potlatch ceremonies of the Pacific Northwest native Americans, you see that Giving can be a form of transfer of status. The same is true in Asian countries in the sense of what they call " face".

In giving materially, or emotionally, to another, you take face from them, and transfer it to yourself.


Socially, the perennial Giver is the one who is trying to entrench a sense of obligation in others.
People who are always giving, and refusing to allow others to give back, are actually trying to gain a power over those they give to... they often expect that 'selflessness' to be returned in the way of security, fidelity, and appreciation...

This is not really selfless... its self centered. IT is giving as a way to keep someone tied to you, or keep them from abandoning you.




But Giving DOES feel good.

Paradoxically, One of the greatest gifts you CAN give to another is the opportunity to give to you. To be of help.
Allowing others to be of assistance in return gives them the gift of feeling helpful... of repaying a social debt they owe you for the things you have done for them.

To be able to graciously accept others' Giving helps create a balance, and prevent the accrual of obligation.


If you are an inveterate Giver, who can not accept giving from others... stop patting yourself on the back...
You are nothing but a social loan shark... making sure that everyone owes you and that you owe nothing to anyone.

Phil that was quite eloquently put.
Makes total sense to me. Those who sometimes give me material possesions want me to be tied to them in a way which I'm usually not ready to do.
I feel bad then evn though they say "you don't owe me anything"
that really isn't the truth.
Sadly it ends up badly for both of us when one won't be honest about what s/he really is expecting.
cigarbabe:sasmokin:

 

[Scrufuss]

yeah. i agree too. gimme chips. sorry gang. ran into a bevy of ex-girlfriends last night at the charity thing, almost hooked up with a new girl, but didn't. If anyone will second the motion, i vote to have this thread deleted. thanks and sorry.

It should be deleted and maybe start it over in another way.. So yeah I 2nd that emotion...
Gimme BIG chips....

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Do you?
It just made me feel sick.
Even helping people now is considered selfish?!!? WTF?!

Though it does remind me of another Friends moment when Phoebe was trying to prove that just that wasn't true.

I'll come back to this... need food and sleep first.
I thought it was an interesting post by the OP...

Helping people is wonderful... but, like anything, it can be used in ways that are less so.

It is not giving that is the problem... it is being giving without being willing to receive in kind.


Many people do so without ulterior motive... but they are unaware of the sense of obligation they create in those they seek to benefit.

The point is not to be ungiving... but to be able to give in addition, the more valued gift of allowing someone to be of help to you, in turn.

The key is always reciprocity.

And to be aware that the giver is the one getting the better of the exchange.



Just be mindful that giving has the potential to harm.

IF there are people in your life you have given and given to... give them the far more important gift of asking them for their help.

Give them an opportunity to feel good, too.

 

[got_lost]

OK, I have eaten and slept several times since I first read this thread and given it reasonable thought.

On retrospect, however indecent Phil's first post was upon my senses I do now understand it more and see what he was getting at.

It's just a way of looking at it I hadn't previously considered, being a 'giver' and all.


That said, I realise, that over the last 2 years I have been a much better receiver too.

Where as I just used to give most of the time, and often felt uncomfortable at receiving, I can now do both, mutually.

The main difference I can recognise between the 'before' and 'after' is a better feeling of self worth. I value myself more now than I did back then, and that is why I feel better equipped to receive.

So I don't believe I wouldn't receive because I was being ungracious to the other person, but simply cos I didn't think I was worth their time or energy. But I do now recognise how hard that could have been on them.

Thanks! :redface:

 

[Phil Ayesho]

The main difference I can recognise between the 'before' and 'after' is a better feeling of self worth. I value myself more now than I did back then, and that is why I feel better equipped to receive.

So I don't believe I wouldn't receive because I was being ungracious to the other person, but simply cos I didn't think I was worth their time or energy. But I do now recognise how hard that could have been on them.

Thanks! :redface:

This makes sense.
One common dynamic in the "giver" personality is a sense of poor self worth.

They live in a fear of being abandoned or ignored by other people... and they try to compensate by Giving and never receiving.

They feel that they need to give to be on a par with others... or in order to create an obligation or tie that will make it harder for others to ignore and abandon them.
And they give because giving makes them feel they are a good person...as compensation for their low self esteem.

They often do not understand why people in their lives start to avoid them, or refuse what they give... mistaking it for low regard for them and they often respond by trying to give even more ... not realizing that it is the Obligation they create that people are trying to avoid... not them.


As you make an effort to be more receptive and allow others to return the favors you do for them, you will see them warm to you, and that will result in feeling better about yourself and more secure in their affections.



Allow others the opportunity to have that warm sense of being needed, useful, or generous... and you give them the gift of feeling good about themselves.

A community is a network of reciprocity.

Giving is important... but just as important is to not hamper other's making the same contribution.

 

[Nala]

Thank you for holding a mirror Phil.