GM...they finally get it

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by lucky8, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. lucky8

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    GM says new Volt to get 230 mpg in city driving - Yahoo! News

    GM is boasting a new 230 MPG car...the Chevy Volt. This is the kind of thing consumers have been waiting for. No more bs 30 MPG "fuel efficiency." If done correctly, this could revolutionize the auto industry as we know it. Although I must say, this pretty much proves that the auto industry has had the capability to produce 200+ MPG cars for at least a few years now...I guess all it took was bankruptcy to get it through these numbskulls heads that they can't just sit on patents anymore...because this thing wasn't just "developed over night..."


    ...it's too bad Americans don't know how to design a nice looking car though...
     
  2. AG08

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    The new Chevy Camaro has a back order of 20,000 vehicles. The plant that is building them is working overtime to meet the demand. Finally they got it through their heads to produce a car that people actually want. I'm not a fan of American cars, but even I like the new Camaro (I never liked the old one).
     
  3. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    And when the A/C or the heater is on? Headlights? Stereo?

    Cars like this are great for cities but city driving is hard on a car with lots of starts and stops with rapid acceleration. NYC cab companies would love a car that can do all these things and hold-up under the most awful conditions imaginable: salt air, appalling roads, sudden stops and heavy acceleration, all the while running plenty of accessories. If this car can succeed as a cab then real people can buy one. Watch the streets of Manhattan to see whether this thing is all it's supposed to be.
     
  4. b.c.

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    I'm primarily a Toyota guy, myself. But when I heard of and saw the Volt (on the evening news - NOT a bad looking car), I was actually thinking maybe there's a GM in our future.

    That was, until I heard the price tag... 40 THOU??? OUCH!!

    Kinda kills the hell out of any possible savings on fuel, eh?
     
  5. blg3floor3

    blg3floor3 New Member

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    I like both the old ones and new one. For the old ones, I particularly like the early 4th gens - the 93-97 style front end. If I could get an LS1 in that, it'd be perfect.

    But it is about time they made the car more appealing to more than just the muscle car crowd. The 3.6L DOHC V6 with forged everything and all the bells and whistles is what they needed 10 years ago. Interior/exterior quality improvements aside. The V6 versions of the muscle cars are generally by far the bread and butter of the sales, and the "venerable this and that" and 'tried and true this and that" 3800 OHV V6 was sadly lacking.

    I just hope the demand for this thing isn't a fad and doesn't putter out as severely as other retro cars.
     
  6. lucky8

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    Ah yes...there are definately drawbacks to this. For instance, the car does NOT actually get 230 miles per gallon...that's just their bs marketing scheme. There should be an asterick (sp?) next to that number for one very important reason: this car gets 230 MPG IF you drive under 40 miles a day....and we all know, hardly anyone anymore drives under 40 miles a day.

    On top of that, GM is touting it will cost the consumer "2 cents per gallon," which is the biggest load of crap I've heard in awhile. I feel a lot of people aren't going to realize that this car is merely replacing one cost for another. Instead of paying more for gas each month, your electric bill is going to be through the roof. And if this car and cars like it become popular, EVERYONE's electric bill will rise, even if you don't have an electric car.

    Also, where am I supposed to plug it in when not at home? In my opinion, electric cars should NOT be the cars of the future for one sole reason: where's the electricity going to come from...especially since half the country is soo opposed to nuclear power. It's a start, but they really need to develop a battery that lasts 200-300 miles and charges quickly...then I might consider buying American again...or better yet, find a viable, renewable resource, then I WILL buy American. That's the main problem I see with America, we're all about fixing things in the short term with no regard for the long term. Someday, this short term midset will come back to haunt us and we'll go the way of Rome, it's just a matter of when

    However, I have to say that I do believe gas stations will be a thing of the past in 2-3 decades, as energy stations will replace them in the future...offering everything from gasoline, deisel, and e85, to hydrogen, electricity, and probably something else that hasn't been invented yet
     
  7. lucky8

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    All I have to say about Camaros is be careful what you choose...I had a 97 z28 t top and it had so many electrical issues. I also had 2 friends who had Camaros as well and their's also had many electrical problems...problems as in speedo not working, lights turning on and off, short circuits in the most random places, and just weird weird things that you would never expect to happen...pretty much happend. They're buyer beware in my opinion...

    A few years from now, roads are going to be cluttered with the new model...just like they are with the new model mustang now...
     
  8. blg3floor3

    blg3floor3 New Member

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    On the LT1 engines you also have to watch out for the Optispark. I worked in the service department at a Chevy dealer for a while and apparently they're somewhat prone to failure and can be expensive as all get out to replace, both in terms of parts and labor.
     
  9. Principessa

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    I was always a Trans Am girl, but the new Camaro is smokin' HAWT! If they offered a hybrid Camaro Convertible I'd be next in line for one of those.:cool:
     
  10. OCMuscleJock

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    :) I love the camaro...I'm supposed to get mine in the late fall/early winter... Charcoal grey RS pkg :) can't wait!!! :)

    also..for a 6 cyl. it has 304 horsepower and is 19mpg city/ 29 highway... not bad for a muscle car. *much better than my jeep...which i'm keeping too* lol

    did some research...out of all the new muscle car re-do's...even my friends in the car biz say Camaro is the way to go..*none of my friends are chevy or gm dealers* lol
     
    #10 OCMuscleJock, Aug 11, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2009
  11. FuzzyKen

    FuzzyKen New Member

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    The first thing people sadly have to consider is that General Motors NEVER ever tells the truth about anything. The only actual invention that GM gets real and true credit for is the Hydramatic Transmission which was placed in production in 1941. Most of the rest of the developments were stolen via industrial espionage. Refrigerated automotive air conditioning came from Packard and was developed in 1938. Chrysler again "appropriated" torsion bar suspension that was a big improvement from the far superior design used on again 1955 and 1956 Packards.

    Chrysler Corporation introduced the mass produced alternator to American passenger cars in 1960, but GM acted in their 1963 promotional films (I have many in my library) as if it was they who were first. In truth the alternator was developed during World War II and an independent manufacturer (Leece-Neville) had them available by the mid 1950's for police cars and taxi cabs which had higher electrical demand because of radio communications.

    Ford by the late 1940's bought it's automatic transmissions from GM for the Lincoln line. Ford did not want to pay and rightfully feared that GM would throw the screws to them. Ford in 1951 introduced an initial light duty automatic transmission for Ford and Mercury cars. This was sourced from Borg Warner.

    I see the GM Volt as being yet another GM flash in the pan that will get a great deal of publicity and then fizzle like everything else they have done. Before anyone looks with great respect to to the least respectable of manufacturers remember the following great GM vehicles:

    The Chevrolet Corvair 1960-1969 May it and all the people that the 1960-1963 models killed rest in peace.

    The Trans-axle Pontiac Tempest. A 389 V8 sawed in half into a vibrating wonder which was the 195 cid Tempest 4 cylinder. Then they ran the power through a constantly moving driveshaft into a reversed Corvair transmission in the rear of the car. The automatic version was so poor it had no provision for cooling of the automatic transmission fluid.

    The Chevrolet Vega, a car with the most horrible alloy engine which was declared as the new engine for the car, not by an engineer but by one of the wives of the CEO's. The engine intended to go in the car was the 2.5 liter engine which was a cast iron or "iron duke" four cylinder that originated in the first Chevrolet Nova's. The engineers were over-ruled by one of the wives of a member of the board of directors.

    Then we had the marvelous V8-6-4 modular displacement engine which was introduced to Cadillacs for 1981. The engine lasted exactly one year and was so unreliable that most service departments simply deactivated the modulated displacement feature as the fix.

    In 1982 the all alloy 4.1 V8 was such a technological triumph that it single-handedly added wings to Cadillac Service departments because the traffic was so heavy.

    Then there was the Northstar engine which had potential, but, then the question came. Where do we put the starter motor? Oh, lets bathe it in oil and put it in under the intake manifold. By the time it fails and we collect $1,700 to replace it, the car will be out of warranty.

    Then there was the GM SUV's using the "new" vortec in line six cylinder engines. How do we get the cylinder head off the engine to repair it? We have to have the equipment to remove the entire body from the chassis of the car because there was no provision to be able to remove the cylinder head with the engine tucked back in such a manner that the body covered it. This created the $4,000 valve job.

    If you doubt me my friends obtain the technical service bulletins for the vehicles in question.

    This is a company that we are going to trust do do anything?

    What is sad is that GM gave us some of the most beautiful cars in automotive history with the first Oldsmobile Toronado in 1966, the first four years of the Cadillac Eldorado in 1967-1970 and many of the Chevrolet Corvettes.

    Those years are gone. GM has not given good value and durability in their cars for many decades. I wish this was not the truth. Chrysler and Ford are better, but not by much.

    The durability champs these days are all made off shore or under the guidance of foreign based manufacturers. Though many of the best cars are assembled here by American workers, which proves that the problem is not the worker, these are owned by foreign concerns.

    The durability champs are built by Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes Benz.

    I currently own and we are still driving a 1985 Mercedes Benz Turbo Diesel which now has over 400,000 miles on it and it is still dead reliable running well.

    The only domestic vehicles I have seen personally hold up to any punishment like this has been the Dodge Turbo Diesel Pickups and the Ford Crown Victorias. Many retire from police departments at 125,000 miles and then go on to even tougher lives as hacks (cabs) where they accumulate even more mileage. I have seen these with 325,000 miles on the clock and still running.

    Chevrolet Volt? Until that vehicle has been out there for five years and has developed a known good track record, don't waste your money. If it does, then watch GM do something to try and cut manufacturing costs and screw it up.

    Sorry Guys, this has been part of my business for over a decade.


     
  12. Gl3nn

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    They should get some German designers...
     
  13. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Efficiency and desperation make marvelous bedfellows.
     
  14. Phil Ayesho

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    YES, of course, in the 12 months since the car industry collapsed, GM went into its vault of great unfielded ideas and dusted off this fully fleshed out technology they have had all alone...

    Sheesh...
    I am a little sick of this shit... This car has been in development of at least 6 years, GM has invested over a billion dollars into it.
    And this is not even their NUMBER ONE solution... they are spending far more money trying to figure out a Hydrogen burning car- because the hydrogen burning car is the only zero emission solution, end of argument, technology...

    THis thing still burns oil--- it either burns gas onboard OR it burns oil at the electrical powerplant that makes its electricity.
    And the batteries it uses are going to create a hellish toxic waste problem.

    This shit is harder to invent than most folks realize...


    Oh, and, design wise, compare it to the Prius.... when your goal is highest fuel economy, that GOAL defines the design... not style.

    You want high MPG? There will be only ONE shape that can surround 4 passengers, 4 wheels and an engine that will perform the most efficiently.



    Fiat, British Leyland, Peugeot, Volkswagon, Toyota, Nissan and all the rest make their fair share of uglymobiles...

    Toyota, for example, does not make a single decent looking passenger car.

    And while most of most company's products suck ass for design, I can offer the following examples of American Car design in rebuttal...
     

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  15. D_Tintagel_Demondong

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    It likely has regenerative braking. This is a fairly simple system where the motor is turned into a generator: when the brake is applied, the energy is used to turn the generator (motor) and put some power back into the batteries. Starts and stops aren't so bad with if this system is used.
     
  16. Gl3nn

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    Thank you for proving my point.
     
  17. Mem

    Mem
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    The only way to get 230 MPG is to drive less than 40 miles per day (for 6 days) and them come home and plug it in at night. It also uses gasoline to run a generator to provide electricity if you drive more than 40 miles in a day.
     
  18. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    The Big Three were simply producing what the self-indulgent people wanted. They got caught in the muck of the economic mess. Ford has had a car in Europe for years that gets around 60 mpg. It would be too costly to ship them here.
     
  19. lucky8

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    GM has been buying patents and sitting on them for decades. They've had the capability to mass produce a fully electric vehicle that gets 70-100 miles per charge for over a decade now...I point you to the EV1. Rave reviews from the test market. Everyone that tested one wanted to keep it, and even offered to pay for it...but GM took them all back, melted them down, never to be seen again. Their excuse? "Nobody wants to buy them" (even though most people who test drove them offered to buy them)

    Fact of the matter is they've had the technology for years, but were unwilling to continue development because they misjudged the market. Then the prius came out and showed GM there actually was a demand for the product...go ahead and buy American, just don't be pissed when you have to repair your car only 6 months after purchase...
     
  20. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    For your info peeps are having problems with a lot of the foreign owned brands. My bro has owned toyotas, Isuzus, and Hondas. Every one of them has had problems. You need to research the individual vehicle first. Then, go ahead and buy. My GM vehicle is going on 16 years, and has had very few repairs. The first 8.5 years, it had no repairs at all. Then, I was stopped at a light, and hit from behind. The peep was flying. Things happened after that. Curse you Red Baron.
     
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