good news to brighten your f*cking day

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by xLx, Mar 17, 2008.

  1. xLx

    xLx New Member

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  2. alex8.5

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    Well if they can make it one more day without getting the shit blown out of them by US troops, I'm sure their happy. We need to pull our troops out and let them lives their lives...
     
  3. Mr. Snakey

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    Thats great news. Old news but great news.
     
  4. Gonzo3

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    World wide dudes ,world wide
    awwwwwwwww isnt that nice for them.:rolleyes:
     
  5. No_Strings

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    If I had to chosoe between being an Iraqi citizen now, and an Iraqi citizen 10 years ago, I would choose 2008 without hesitation.

    All 'hidden' agendas aside, the improvements are down to one man.
     
  6. Phil Ayesho

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    Well, since 20% are now living in other countries in the west where life is far better... sure...

    But this kind of "poll" is bullshit. What they mean to say is "50% of Iraqis we asked...."

    How was the poll conducted? By Phone? How many Iraqi's without phone service ( still) would report the same?

    Was it conducted thru personal interview?
    Where did this occur? In the areas of the country where there has been very little violence? Where their essential services were never decimated?

    I don't buy it for a second

    More troops on the ground... ( which CJCS General Shinseki, and dozens of others got fired for suggesting was crucial back before the whole shebang started) has certainly made it harder for insurgents to move around and operate...

    But bombings are still occurring with regularity.


    But the REAL key to deciphering the propaganda component of this "poll" is the parameters...

    They say its better than its been in the last 3 years.

    LAST 3 YEARS...

    When did we go in?

    And please note... that only HALF, of those asked, think that its gotten better than the last 3 years. Only half.... the other half see NO improvement over the situation as it was a full year after Saddam's regime fell....???


    The truth is nearly ALL iraqis will tell you that their lives were better under Saddam.... that he had his downside... but at least their wives and daughters could walk home thru the street at 1 am and not have to be affraid...
    Revenge killings and kidnapping were not the central feature of their lives...


    IT takes an absolute shithead Like GWB and his team only 6 years to make Saddam Hussien look like the good guy.


    THis poll is apologist information spinning to assuage British and US guilt over the debacle of this war.
    TO make the conservative functional imbeciles who came up with this idea look less like the idiots they truly are.
     
  7. B_Demention

    B_Demention New Member

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    They use things like this to prove that the war in Iraq wasn't for nothing so that years from now people can look back at these kind of figures and postulate that the Bush administration was a relatively successful one that essentially got the job done at the end of the day - despite it being a crock. I don't think our collective ego could face another Vietnam style ass-kicking so it looks like we're learning damage control ahead of time now, to counteract any accusations that this war was pointless or not without ulterior motives.
     
  8. bobabooey69

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    I agree with Phil, polls can be made to look like anything you'd like it to.
    And this one was designed as propaganda...plain and simple.
     
  9. SteveHd

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    It is good news and I'm not too surprised.

    As I see it, the mess is improving, no doubt about that. I think the turning point was early 2007 or late 2006. The so-called "surge" simply took advantage of already changing situation. I think the worst is behind them. Al Qaeda in Iraq is essentially beaten.

    Iraq still has a rocky road ahead of them. It would get a lot rockier if the U.S. forces were to rapidly pull out.
     
  10. Phil Ayesho

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    Al Qaeda in Iraq is not and never has been the problem... there has never been more than a couple thousand al qaeda in Iraq... they came in just to fight us, and they will leave the day after we do.


    The problem in Iraq is the free-or-all over which tribal sect will be in control.

    For the past 25 years it was Tikriti sunni... and they kept a tight and harsh lid on insurrection.
    But now every little tribal chieftain is free to seek revenge for 25 years of slights. ( not to mention the 1100 years of prior, unresolved, vendettas)


    If you Ask the Iraqi's... they will tell you that Al Qaeda is nothing... its the Shia majority taking Sunni's hostage for revenge, or extortion... in those areas where Shia dominate...
    Its the Sunni doing the same to Shia in areas where they have the numbers

    and its both of them beating up on the Sa'ibi minority.

    And WITHIN the Shia and Sunni sects... there are wars being fought between tribes, over which family will dominate this city, that neighborhood...

    It is a NATION of mafiosi... with protection payoff scams, subverted police participating in kidnappings and executions.. .intimidation and coercion.


    We have stupidly pulled the cork out of a bottle and the Ginn of tribal and sectarian warfare is loose...

    And nothing we can do will stop it.

    The idea that we can make it better is ignorant. Only people who know nothing of the areas tribal and religious history can bring themselves to believe that things are getting better.

    Bush Senior was smart enough to know better than to topple Saddam.

    Even Cheney, then under Bush Senior, made the comment that toppling Saddam would result in a quagmire of epic proportions.



    And when the pundits here at home who, like Bush before we started this war, had also never heard of the words Sunni or Shia....

    When they think they see it getting better... all that will mean is that the one Guy who is ruthless enough to scare the crap out of all the other tribes, the Next Saddam, has finally established himself.


    Either way... we need to get out...

    As I said before..
    Its not a matter of WHEN.... its just a matter of HOW MUCH MORE...

    How much more room do we need to plan on the monument to this disaster... on which to carve the names of our dead children.
     
  11. Mr. Snakey

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    Well said.
     
  12. goldbearMark

    goldbearMark New Member

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    Right on, Phil and Slant, two folks on this site who routinely have thoughtful, well-reasoned comments!

    I'd like to add that many a ferocious dictator (Idi Amin comes to mind, who floated many a headless body down the Nile) got up to no good w'out U.S. intervention...but then their countries did not have vast oil fields and areas for strategically placed air bases that Halliburton could get its sticky fingers into unslapped
     
  13. Phil Ayesho

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    Based upon WHAT? Your near total ignorance of Iraqi history, culture and the current state of affairs?

    Question...What do you know about being an Iraqi?
    Answer... what you have been told by the administration.


    Most Iraqi, who, BTW have LIVED there their whole lives, say they preferred Saddam. They didn't say that the first week after he fell....
    They are starting to say it now because what has replaced Saddam is unimaginably worse.


    And yes...
    that is all down to one man...

    And if it gets any better?
    it will be because Bush has finally left office.

    ( keep in mind that Bush actively and vehemently RESISTED increased troop levels for 4 years... a Lot of good generals lost their careers trying to convince him otherwise.)
     
  14. xLx

    xLx New Member

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    whether or not you trust these things to accurately reflect public opinion (let's face it, who does?), what's nice to see is that most of the responses reveal some improvement over the last six to twelve months. especially the questions about peoples' expectations for the future of the country - there seems to be faith in the ability of those in charge to hold Iraq together, and little support for breaking it up (except among the Kurds, but they've always been a bit antisocial apparently).

    there are a few odd ones though. Part of question 9 asks people how they rate their own family's economic situation - over twice as many people rated it 'very good' now as did in August of last year. then again, 10% thought unemployment was Iraq's biggest problem. from what i can tell the problems most people are complaining about are fairly humdrum things (well, i suppose access to clean water is important for health reasons, but you see what i mean) rather than security-related and political problems. it seems to be mainly poor provision of electricity and water that are riling people. Q12b estimates 82% are either 'somewhat confident' or 'very confident' the security situation will 'continue to improve'.

    there's also growing faith in the army and the government, although not much improvement in peoples' estimations of the police. US occupation forces come out badly, with 20% of those who thought security was getting worse holding them to blame. what really is good news, i suppose, is a fall in support for local militias.

    ok enough for now, but it makes quite interesting reading i think. we might accuse them of cooking the results, but it's been performed by independent private agencies at the bequest of major national news agencies - the BBC, Japan's NHK and Germany's ARD - which all have fairly good reputations for unbiased reporting. if it does come out sounding a bit TOO optimistic, i would guess that's because it's aggregated over the whole of Iraq, whilst the major incidents we hear about every week take place in a few urban hotspots.

    PS the survey was done based on interviews (in Arabic or Kurdish) conducted over the course of a week in February. they interviewed 2228 people, which sounds like a smallish sample to me, but i suppose they know what they're doing.


    here's their precise methodology for anyone bored enough:

    Methodology:
    [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]461 sampling points were distributed proportionate to population size in each of Iraq’s 18 provinces, then in all 102 districts within the provinces, then by simple random sampling among Iraq’s nearly 11,000 villages or neighbourhoods, with urban/rural stratification at each stage. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Maps or grids were used to select random starting points within each sampling point, with household selection by random route/random interval and within-household selection by the "next-birthday" method. An average of five interviews were conducted per sampling point. . [/FONT]
    [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Interviews were conducted by 116 trained Iraqi interviewers with 31 supervisors. Fifty-seven percent of interviews were supervised or reviewed by supervisors [/FONT][FONT=Tahoma,Tahoma]– [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]34 percent by direct [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]observation, 7 percent by revisits and 16 percent by phone. All questionnaires were subject to further quality-control checks. Seven of the 461 sampling points were inaccessible for security reasons and were substituted with randomly selected replacements (hmmmm)[/FONT]
    [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]In addition to the national sample, oversamples were drawn in Anbar province, Sadr City, Basra city, Kirkuk city and Mosul to allow for more reliable analysis in those areas. Population data came from 2005 estimates by the Iraq Ministry of Planning. The sample was weighted by sex, age, education, urban/rural status and population of province. [/FONT]​
    [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The survey had a contact rate of 92 percent and a cooperation rate of 65 percent for a net response rate of 60 percent. Including an estimated design effect of 1.52, the results have a margin of sampling error of 2.5 percentage points at the 95 percent confidence level. [/FONT]
     
  15. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    we need to pull our troops out, so that our troops can live their lives
     
  16. Elmer Gantry

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    As what? Florists?

    I think they are living the lives they chose.
     
  17. Elmer Gantry

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