Gop stripping funds from planned parenthood.

[Chrysippus]

If that is not a moral or ethical issue no such thing exist

There you go again, if abortion is 'not a moral or ethical issue no such thing(s) exist'.
Well, murder, rape, persecution,genocide, and child abuse, children dying every day because of starvation and abuse exist, irrespective of the fact of abortion, so you're an exaggerator.

If Americans thought that abortion was indeed murder committed every 97 seconds, there would be public disorder, riots in the streets, pious church folk would be destroying PP clinics (and other places that offer abortions)--and believe me, legislation would have been enacted against abortion long ago: but no, Churchies who oppose abortion do so with comfort and without conviction--protestors with a mouth full of cake.

If there is a real pro-life movement and belief in the nuclear family amongst the religious in the US, there wouldn't be a foster home or an orphanage in operation.

You love to wave your anti-abortion flag, but you and the rest of the hypocrites aren't willing to die for the cause--you just want to wage a comfort-campaign. What, no martyrs or confessors these days? No one willing to die for the faith? We need more Christians to step forward and be today's Eric Rudolphs (see his website https://www.armyofgod.com/EricRudolphHomepage.html).

PS: Planned Parenthood isn't synonymous with abortion, or are you really stupid enough to think so?

 

[malakos]

It's only a moral or ethical issue if you I think a fetus is a person.

The very concept of personhood is controversial and its application to anything is uncertain because its definition has not been clearly established or agreed upon. The terms "living", "organism", and "human being" have much more concise definitions and therefore, imo, would be much more useful to having sincere conversations about the human fetus.

That aside though... do you not think that non-"persons" are subject to any ethical considerations?

 

[malakos]

If Americans thought that abortion was indeed murder committed every 97 seconds, there would be public disorder, riots in the streets, pious church folk would be destroying PP clinics (and other places that offer abortions)--and believe me, legislation would have been enacted against abortion long ago: but no, Churchies who oppose abortion do so with comfort and without conviction--protestors with a mouth full of cake.

If there is a real pro-life movement and belief in the nuclear family amongst the religious in the US, there wouldn't be a foster home or an orphanage in operation.

Admittedly there is truth to what you say here. If folks who threw around the term murder in referring to abortion sincerely believed that then they should be advocating for it being returned to some level of felony homicide. Truth is only a small fraction of them will even be willing to speak of any sort of enforcement of their proposed abortion ban.

I didn't notice levi101 mentioning "murder" though. It would appear he only went so far as to say it is a moral issue.

 

[Chrysippus]

I didn't notice levi101 mentioning "murder" though. It would appear he only went so far as to say it is a moral issue.

No, he didn't mention 'murder', but many other proponents of the pro-life movement have or have used the term infanticide, and the fact that he brings up 'every 97 seconds' is a dogwhistle outage-incitement-reference to the fact Levi101 does think it's a great moral wrong. He did use 'killing', though.

 

[622675]

There you go again, if abortion is 'not a moral or ethical issue no such thing(s) exist'.
Well, murder, rape, persecution,genocide, and child abuse, children dying every day because of starvation and abuse exist, irrespective of the fact of abortion, so you're an exaggerator.

If Americans thought that abortion was indeed murder committed every 97 seconds, there would be public disorder, riots in the streets, pious church folk would be destroying PP clinics (and other places that offer abortions)--and believe me, legislation would have been enacted against abortion long ago: but no, Churchies who oppose abortion do so with comfort and without conviction--protestors with a mouth full of cake.

If there is a real pro-life movement and belief in the nuclear family amongst the religious in the US, there wouldn't be a foster home or an orphanage in operation.

You love to wave your anti-abortion flag, but you and the rest of the hypocrites aren't willing to die for the cause--you just want to wage a comfort-campaign. What, no martyrs or confessors these days? No one willing to die for the faith? We need more Christians to step forward and be today's Eric Rudolphs (see his website https://www.armyofgod.com/EricRudolphHomepage.html).

PS: Planned Parenthood isn't synonymous with abortion, or are you really stupid enough to think so?

===========
If PP stopped performing abortions how long do you think they would exist? They are synonymous with abortion. Anything else that PP does would be better handled through the traditional medical systems.

The abortion process has its place in our culture. I do believe that abortion is the taking of a life but I am open to the prospect that there may be a valid reason for doing so at times

If the practice of abortion could be dealt with using the same degree of consideration as is now given to death row prisoners, we would all be in a better place intellectually an ethically.

Issues surrounding foster children have a great deal in common with the attitudes that promote no fault abortions. We have become a throw away culture at all levels.

Numbers change, but last I heard Texas has around 50K children in the foster care system at any one time. Most of these kids are in short term placement in private homes. Many of these homes have adopted children from the system.

Most providers operate from faith based and community oversight organizations. At times I work with families who do this kind of work. This is how they (raise a flag) stand against the irrational and false position of easy abortion. They are productive where others use words that are just noise.

 

[Chrysippus]

If PP stopped performing abortions how long do you think they would exist? They are synonymous with abortion. Anything else that PP does would be better handled through the traditional medical systems.

Sorry, just not true:
Only 3% of Planned Parenthood's services are abortion services. The other 97% includes testing and treatment of sexually transmitted diseases, contraception, cancer screening and prevention, and pregnancy testing and prenatal services.
https://www.thoughtco.com/planned-parenthood-services-3534167
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog.../06/AFhBPa2C_blog.html?utm_term=.36179eb08daf
http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/planned-parenthood/

 

[firsttimecaller]

The very concept of personhood is controversial and its application to anything is uncertain because its definition has not been clearly established or agreed upon. The terms "living", "organism", and "human being" have much more concise definitions and therefore, imo, would be much more useful to having sincere conversations about the human fetus.

We aren't talking about application to anything. We're talking about homo-sapiens.

One definite line of personhood that is not controversial would be the moment you pop out of your moms vagina.

However even that is as arbitrary as it is obvious, because if you could vaporize only mom 2 days before that point an autonomous baby human would be sitting there.

So, yeah...

That aside though... do you not think that non-"persons" are subject to any ethical considerations?

Yeah, but what is included in that group and to what extent are very personal/cultural. I mean, most of us will eat eggs without second thought. Same for killing mosquitoes, centipedes and mice.

We had that whole Mike Vick hoopla here over dogs. Granted, part of that was due to the manner of execution, but a lot was simply the fact he was killing them. Meanwhile there's a shitload of people across the ocean who think nothing of chopping one up and eating it for lunch.

 

[693987]

The irony of (yet another) male trying to say what Planned Parenthood is all about while not actually knowing, and also trying to say what women should and shouldn't be able to do with their own body is exceedingly high...

 

[286798]

They are synonymous with abortion. Anything else that PP does would be better handled through the traditional medical systems.

I respectfully disagree. I grew up in a college town and PP was the place you went to get on the pill for cheap so your parents didn't know. They may have been able to make referrals for abortion, but they weren't done there. It may be different in different areas, but that's my experience
FWIW, I am personally very strongly pro-life but this is largely due to my religious beliefs. My vote is pro-choice because I don't think MY beliefs should affect YOUR choices.

 

[Chrysippus]

I respectfully disagree. I grew up in a college town and PP was the place you went to get on the pill for cheap so your parents didn't know. They may have been able to make referrals for abortion, but they weren't done there. It may be different in different areas, but that's my experience
FWIW, I am personally very strongly pro-life but this is largely due to my religious beliefs. My vote is pro-choice because I don't think MY beliefs should affect YOUR choices.

Well, levi101is as ill-informed as
1.) Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn: Rep. Marsha Blackburn, Aug. 30: Planned Parenthood doesn’t need the money … 94 percent of their business … is abortion services. (Source: CNN “State of the Union” transcript.)
2.) Orrin Hatch: Sen. Orrin Hatch, Aug. 3: Abortion accounts for 94 percent of Planned Parenthood’s pregnancy services. (Source: Remarks on the Senate floor.)
3.) Congressman Bill Johnson: Rep. Bill Johnson, July 21: In 2013, abortions made up 94 percent of Planned Parenthood’s so-called pregnancy services — 94 percent. (Source: Remarks on the House floor.)

Liars all!

 

[Scarletbegonia]

Sorry, just not true:
Only 3% of Planned Parenthood's services are abortion services. The other 97% includes testing and treatment of sexually transmitted diseases, contraception, cancer screening and prevention, and pregnancy testing and prenatal services.
https://www.thoughtco.com/planned-parenthood-services-3534167
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog.../06/AFhBPa2C_blog.html?utm_term=.36179eb08daf
http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/planned-parenthood/
View attachment 717241

Including healthcare for men. It's not Planned Motherhood.

 

[Scarletbegonia]

Against abortion? Don't have or cause one.
Done.

 

[firsttimecaller]

The irony of (yet another) male ...trying to say what women should and shouldn't be able to do with their own body is exceedingly high...

The abortion issue isn't all about what a woman can do with her own body.

It's also about the separate set of rights the thing growing in your belly may or may not be endowed with at any given point in time.

 

[693987]

The abortion issue isn't all about what a woman can do with her own body.

It's also about the separate set of rights the thing growing in your belly may or may not be endowed with at any given point in time.

I didn't say the abortion issue was exclusively about what a woman can do with her own body now, did I? No, I didn't.

 

[Industrialsize]

The abortion issue isn't all about what a woman can do with her own body.

It's also about the separate set of rights the thing growing in your belly may or may not be endowed with at any given point in time.

It's called a embryo/fetus and doesn't have rights.

 

[Industrialsize]

===========
If PP stopped performing abortions how long do you think they would exist? They are synonymous with abortion. Anything else that PP does would be better handled through the traditional medical systems.

The abortion process has its place in our culture. I do believe that abortion is the taking of a life but I am open to the prospect that there may be a valid reason for doing so at times

If the practice of abortion could be dealt with using the same degree of consideration as is now given to death row prisoners, we would all be in a better place intellectually an ethically.

Issues surrounding foster children have a great deal in common with the attitudes that promote no fault abortions. We have become a throw away culture at all levels.

Numbers change, but last I heard Texas has around 50K children in the foster care system at any one time. Most of these kids are in short term placement in private homes. Many of these homes have adopted children from the system.

Most providers operate from faith based and community oversight organizations. At times I work with families who do this kind of work. This is how they (raise a flag) stand against the irrational and false position of easy abortion. They are productive where others use words that are just noise.

"Anything else that PP does would be better handled through the traditional medical systems."

Well that just isn't true. For a large percentage of PP's patient's, PP is the only medical provider available.
And what the hell is a "no fault abortion"?

 

[TexanStar]

===========
If PP stopped performing abortions how long do you think they would exist? They are synonymous with abortion. Anything else that PP does would be better handled through the traditional medical systems.

So people shouldn't use https://www.carenow.com/ and instead should go to the emergency room for more expense and slower service? Or try to schedule an appointment with a GP for a longer drive and a wait time of days until they can squeeze you in?

Even setting planned parenthood aside, you seem to know jack shit about how people, especially people on limited incomes, get their health care needs met.

I've personally used planned parenthood for STD screening once upon a time (this is actually ~40% of their services and the most common service they provide, though they do have a lot of others as well). A lot of people, myself included, don't find it comfortable to have their general health providers also address aspects of their reproductive health.

 

[firsttimecaller]

It's called a embryo/fetus and doesn't have rights.

Some people call it a person and feel that it does...

 

[622675]

Well, levi101is as ill-informed as
1.) Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn: Rep. Marsha Blackburn, Aug. 30: Planned Parenthood doesn’t need the money … 94 percent of their business … is abortion services. (Source: CNN “State of the Union” transcript.)
2.) Orrin Hatch: Sen. Orrin Hatch, Aug. 3: Abortion accounts for 94 percent of Planned Parenthood’s pregnancy services. (Source: Remarks on the Senate floor.)
3.) Congressman Bill Johnson: Rep. Bill Johnson, July 21: In 2013, abortions made up 94 percent of Planned Parenthood’s so-called pregnancy services — 94 percent. (Source: Remarks on the House floor.)

Liars all!

Consider:

 

[622675]

It's called a embryo/fetus and doesn't have rights.

The Middle Ages is often thought of as the domain of a sexual ignorance. For example Henry VIII’s fourth wife, Anne of Cleves, failed to realize the reason she wasn’t getting pregnant was because her fat husband wasn’t sleeping with her.

Perhaps you should re-evaluate your understanding of a fetus.

Based on the opportunistic and legalistic nature of your definition regarding a fetus, you would have stood with those Americans in 1805 who declared African slaves were property to be bought, sold, and bread as other stock animals.

If so, would you now agree that would have been an ignorant decision.