Government Forced to Release Documents on Spying Programme

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_TonyK8483, Dec 7, 2010.

  1. B_TonyK8483

    B_TonyK8483 New Member

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    Governmet Forced to Release Docs on Spying Programme
    URL: Govt Forced to Release Docs on Spying Programme | CommonDreams.org
    by William Fisher

    This doesn't really surprise me, but what does surprise me is that so few people seem to be bothered at all. If it didn't affect so many people, I would think it was kind of funny how such presumably intelligent people could care so little about their own basic freedoms and safety.
     
  2. D_Fiona_Farvel

    D_Fiona_Farvel Account Disabled

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    "the first mechanism of escape from freedom is the tendency to give up independence of one's own individual self to fuse one's self with somebody or something outside of oneself in order to acquire the strength which the individual self is lacking"
    Fromm, 1941

    There's a veneer of benefit to FISA, so people lay down for the promise of safety. I suppose there are worse things to submit to, but this is pure human condition, little, if anything, to do with intelligence.
     
  3. B_TonyK8483

    B_TonyK8483 New Member

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    ExotiKittie,

    Great quote!

    Of course when you give up essential liberty for temporary safety, there's a serious possibility you will lose both.

    Well, the amended FISA Act in 2008 has far more to do with legitimizing the NSA's illegal warrantless wiretapping activities, and providing retroactive immunity to the telecommunications giants which cooperated with them

    All encompassing warrantless wiretapping is not about protecting our nation, it's about control. This is not something a country that values individual liberties does; this is something that the former Soviet Union would do if they could.
     
  4. maxcok

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    Why don't you ask the Mods to merge this with your other thread on the same subject?

    Might get more traction.
     
  5. The Dragon

    The Dragon New Member

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    Run for the hills and don the tinfoil hats..


     
    #5 The Dragon, Dec 9, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2010
  6. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Stock prices for Reynolds must be at an all time high in America. :wink:
     
  7. D_Fiona_Farvel

    D_Fiona_Farvel Account Disabled

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    The old chestnut. :biggrin1: Yeah, OK, I am also a fan of Franklin. But the reason he produced that statement was because people were willing to give up what liberal theorists of the period devised and offered as essential human rights in the national framework for "safety".

    Security versus freedom - ever the hot topic.

    Like the Soviet Union, the United States has engaged in warrantless wiretapping and surveillance of citizens since at least the "Red Scare" and the push for unionization - later brought back into the spotlight during Watergate and post-9/11 activities. FISA or not, the activity is routine and I have yet to see people rioting in the streets, or hey, writing letters, to end it.

    There has always been something circumscribed about the American experience, and if viewing the national community through a gendered lens... or ethnically, politically, by race, color, religion, sexuality, or poverty, we aren't that free.

    If thinking about American's belief in "individual liberties" via Chomsky's work, one could state that we have been subject to propaganda and believe something exists that really doesn't, or only for a select few. Taking that further, if many have only experienced a limited "liberty", how are they able to value it in anyway other than broad, nebulous terms? Further, would the loss of something they never experienced matter?

    To some, certainly it does, but the masses? :shrug: I think you are overestimating America's passion for liberty.
     
  8. dandelion

    Verified Gold Member

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    I couldnt say whether freedom within the US is a myth, but its foriegn policy is based upon a myth of spreading freedom to the rest of the world. As slogans go its quite a good one. Its up there with 'work makes free', which the US also generally believes. Its not a million miles from the ethos of the british empire, which aimed to bring civilisation to the savages.
     
  9. Bbucko

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    I doubt "the masses" understand what even constitutes real freedom. I'm certainly old enough to remember when International Communism was used as a gauge by which we were told to understand (and express gratitude for) our liberties. Part of the Cold War involved an equivalence between consumerism and freedom.

    I find it fascinating that the same, direct comparison was made in the post-9/11 shock we all felt; we were told to go buy something to help defeat the Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists who hated us, we were told, for our "freedom".

    In my own experience, real freedom involves a lack of possessions, all of which require maintenance, protection and constant upgrading. Materialism does not equal freedom, it's another form of slavery, both to the goods themselves and their purveyors.
     
  10. B_KendraLesnick831

    B_KendraLesnick831 New Member

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    Tony K,

    Actually a lot more people care about the government spying than you would think.
     
  11. slurper_la

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  12. vibrationzzz

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    All that spying on one another and no-one can tell us where MH370 with nearly 300 people went down. Absolutley fucking amazing.

    What a load of fucking absolute bull fucking shit. Let it be known that everyone country knows what every other country thinks, but, yet, they do not know where a huge modern aircraft crashed into the ocean.


    FUCK OFF
     
    #12 vibrationzzz, Sep 6, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2014
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