Govt. fucking "adult" websites?

DC_DEEP

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I know I'll have to leave the site if this law passes. The licensing board in California can revoke my registration for doing things that they deem as "unprofessional" and "likely" to affect my ability to do my profession.
And you know, simcha, part of what annoys me so much is that, on this site, I spend most of my time in non-sex discussions. I do not use the site to provide, receive, or trade pornography, and I do not use the site to "hook up." It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with my professional life.

It's obvious to anyone with anything resembling a brain that 2257 really has nothing to do with "preventing child porn or capturing child pornographers." It has everything to do with government finding ever-more clever ways to increase surveillance of average, law-abiding citizens.
 

Osiris

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And you know, simcha, part of what annoys me so much is that, on this site, I spend most of my time in non-sex discussions. I do not use the site to provide, receive, or trade pornography, and I do not use the site to "hook up." It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with my professional life.

It's obvious to anyone with anything resembling a brain that 2257 really has nothing to do with "preventing child porn or capturing child pornographers." It has everything to do with government finding ever-more clever ways to increase surveillance of average, law-abiding citizens.

I think that is 90% of us and even those who meet up oftem times are not sexual in nature to begin with.
 
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And you know, simcha, part of what annoys me so much is that, on this site, I spend most of my time in non-sex discussions. I do not use the site to provide, receive, or trade pornography, and I do not use the site to "hook up." It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with my professional life.

It's obvious to anyone with anything resembling a brain that 2257 really has nothing to do with "preventing child porn or capturing child pornographers." It has everything to do with government finding ever-more clever ways to increase surveillance of average, law-abiding citizens.

Hear ye! Well-said!
 
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Yes, I fully accept my Government and trust it more then half of the people I know. They're there to keep checks on the voting populous, not to try and imprison us for looking up on dirty websites. It'll be for the greater good in my opinion. Also ngjt, I would prefer it if you did not call me a twat.

A tidbit for you, Google sends unwholesome searches such as bomb making and child pornography searches to the FBI.

I have no clue if you are a British subject or an American citizen living abroad.

As Americans we have the right to be secure in our own person and property, particularly so in the home. To have our communications monitored, our lives watched entirely by Big Brother without any reasonable cause is antithetical to the American concept of liberty. Our justice system presumes an accused is innocent until proven guilty and because of that, our government needs to suspect a crime is occuring or will occur for government surveillance of a private citizen to be legal.

This law subverts this by assuming that I, or anyone else who does so, is commiting a crime unless we can prove otherwise. That's assumption of guilt, not innocence and, in my view, is unconstitutional.

The great flaw in this bill is that it depends entirely upon the goodwill of the government and nothing upon the people the government is supposed to represent. There is no balance to the check of government because it gives no redress to an individual who acts within the law yet declines to provide identification.

Our system of freedom of speech was founded by men who had to remain anonymous to publish anti-government literature. The very first amendment to our constitution is quite simple:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

We do believe that in certain exceptional circumstances, such as child pornography or inciting panic by shouting, "Fire!," in a crowded theater when there is no fire, or advocating the overthrow of the federal government by violent means, certain minimal, reasonable restrictions are warranted, but nothing else is. I know in the EU many countries prohibit hate speech or certain political parties but here we do not. No matter what one says, however odious it may be, your right to say it or print it is not for the government to censor. Further, there is no requirement that anything an American publishes must be done so with identification because that would be a restriction on first amendment rights creating the effect of stifling unpopular dissent.

"But what do nude photographs have to do with that," you ask? You can ask that, but the government cannot. So long as no reasonable suspicion of a crime has occured, the government has no right to demand anything of you because you are acting within your rights as a citizen. Yes this puts the government at a disadvantage, but that's how our system of government was designed to work. At all times, the people are to have advantage over government:

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.​

Those are the words of one of the architects of our government, Thomas Jefferson. He, and other Americans throughout history, have understood that the price of liberty comes at the cost of never being entirely safe from anyone or anything. This sentiment was echoed by another architect of our government, Benjamin Franklin:

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.​

Attitudes in the UK may be very different from ours and if you are British, I can understand that. Our sovereignity is embodied by and devolves exclusively from the will of the people, yours is embodied in a pleasant woman who keeps corgis and wears metal hats with rock crystals embedded in them. While we share many common ideas about government, our foundations are very different. What we must thank you for is the wisdom of your own political philosopher, Edmund Burke, who had no small influence on our founding fathers:

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.​

When government acts to compromise a right as precious and essential to liberty as our freedom of speech, we must act to check government and keep it from infringing upon our rights at any and all times, nudie pictures or no, for as Edmund Burke also wisely stated:

Better be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident security.​
 

whatireallywant

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That's called discrimination and it is illegal in the job market in the US.

Well...it supposedly is NOW... but who knows what may happen in the future?

In my opinion, my employers have no business knowing what web sites I look at during non-business hours. They don't own me! :mad:
 

whatireallywant

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:cool: I thought your first post in this thread was meant to be sarcastic.

This law is ridiculous. Like so many others, it hides its ulterior motives behind a facade of protecting people. Like the new road taxes here in Virginia hide behind "stopping people from driving like crazy." This one hides behind that omnipresent spectre child pornography. It's next to impossible to find child pornography on the internet. Go on, look for it. It's not out there. All this is doing is allowing evangelicals to further target anybody who doesn't fear sex as much as they do, and gives the government an excuse to get its grubby fingers further up the skirt of the internet... something they've been struggling to do any way they can for over a decade now.

That's what it sounds like to me, too. Yet more attempts from the religious zealots to pry into everyone else's lives.
 

bstexas

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frizzle: It all depends on the situation or employer, but yes an employer does have a right to not hire you if he or she thinks the site will effect your personal life and therefore effect the job. Which is perfectly fine.

How can you sound so GLIB about this? As stated by others, you don't get it. This is just a ruse for the US government to get more information from the citizens who do not conform to the evangelical right's mores. There are ways for the government to fight child pornography than forcing all members of adult social sites to post private information which could easily be hacked, abused and used against them not only for employment but for other situations as well. Wait till the British do this and see how many of your brothers will be up in arms.
 

HazelGod

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We do believe that in certain exceptional circumstances, such as child pornography or inciting panic by shouting, "Fire!," in a crowded theater when there is no fire, or advocating the overthrow of the federal government by violent means, certain minimal, reasonable restrictions are warranted, but nothing else is.

Was that item included for levity? I assure you that given the tumultuous history of the birth of our republic and text of the very next amenment in the bill of rights, that option was never intended to be taken entirely off the table by the men who put ink to parchment.

Wait till the British do this and see how many of your brothers will be up in arms.

You're kidding, right? You are aware that the Britons, Londoners in particular, are the most publicly surveilled population on the face of the earth. They're already further along the shearing line than we are. As for being up in arms...her majesty's subjects aren't afforded that right as we are.
 

B_New End

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Yes, I fully accept my Government and trust it more then half of the people I know.

The government is made up of the exact same types of people. Some you can trust, and some you can't.

I am kind of torn on this bill, however.

For one, women and men have to show a picture id in a photograph, proving they are over 18, before doing nudes.

It would be inconvenient here on the internet, but at the same time, I must sya, I find the law requiring a photo id photo, to be a reasonable law.

I completely disagree with the warrantless searches, however.
 
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Was that item included for levity? I assure you that given the tumultuous history of the birth of our republic and text of the very next amenment in the bill of rights, that option was never intended to be taken entirely off the table by the men who put ink to parchment.

No, included as a matter of law.

United States Code Title 18, Part I, Chapter 115, Subsection 2385:

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or etc., etc....

... Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

I'm quite sure they didn't as well, however there it is. I do not know if the law has been challenged before SCOTUS, but it would make for a great arguments.
 

Not_Punny

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...All this is doing is allowing evangelicals to further target anybody who doesn't fear sex as much as they do, and gives the government an excuse to get its grubby fingers further up the skirt of the internet... something they've been struggling to do any way they can for over a decade now...

It is my personal opinion that every religious fanatic is a hypocrite. Too bad the U.S. government is so damned religious!!!

- - - - - - - - -

And as for the Internet... well, the Internet is erasing borders. And isn't that a terrible, awful thing?

You can't declare war on a country that's plugged into the Internet, now can you? Think about it.

And as for you members who live in the U.K. and other countries -- LPSG would have to collect YOUR identities too. Either that, or LPSG would have to forbid you access.

So even if you trust your own government, do you trust ours?

- - -

I'm not usually a conspiracy person, but I feel that we're riding on a non-stop freight train to One World Government and zero individualism.

Ahhh, gonna go numb myself with a beer. It's 5:00 o'clock somewhere....
 
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The government is made up of the exact same types of people. Some you can trust, and some you can't.

I am kind of torn on this bill, however.

For one, women and men have to show a picture id in a photograph, proving they are over 18, before doing nudes.

It would be inconvenient here on the internet, but at the same time, I must sya, I find the law requiring a photo id photo, to be a reasonable law.

I completely disagree with the warrantless searches, however.

What about having to prove you're not a felon is reasonable?

Further, who is to determine what is pornographic? Pornography is held to the standards of the community in which it exists yet one man's pornography is another man's art. Justice Potter Stewart made a famous remark about this very issue:

I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.

Nudity is not generally held to be pornographic in our society. Showing an erect or flaccid penis, showing breasts or vaginas, any of these things are not, of themselves, pornographic by the standards of SCOTUS rulings. Pornography has to, "arouse prurient interest." Not even photographs of naked children are necessarily pornographic. Requiring an ID to post a naked photograph of yourself or someone else actually stigmatizes nudity by making it pornographic in the eys of the government.

Would you have images such as the famous one contained here of Phan Th? Kim Ph&#250;c be censored on the ground that it could be pornographic? That the child wasn't old enough to sign a release?

Would a web site need to receive releases from everyone photographed by artist Spencer Tunick just to display one of his photographs?

Would you get hauled off to jail for posting shots of your naked kid playing in the bathtub if you put it on the web?

Here's a great shot of the beautiful Hedy Lamarr in the 1933 film, Ecstasy. She's dead and everyone having to do with the film is dead. Who's around to sign a release to show that still from the movie?

This kind of bill censors not just what we think is pornography. Arts such as photography and cinema, photojournalism, and political speech will all be curtailed unreasonably by this bill.

It infuriates me no end that the very culture that the Islamic fundamentalists deride as sexually immoral is developing the very same phobia of nudity that Islamic fundamentalists espouse. From locker rooms to swimming pools to dorm rooms, to the Department of Justice building where statues of Justice, showing naked breasts, were covered with drapery, and even to our own homes where members of the same sex scurry around terrified that, "someone will see them," nudity in any form is becoming prurient.
 

Principessa

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I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one bothered by Frizzles comments in this thread. However, I think we need to step back and gain some perspective when dealing with him. He removed his age from his profile; but I seem to recall he is only 19. Also he lives in the UK, not the United States. So his world and political views are bound to be different from ours. While many of the UK members have a near encyclopedic knowledge of America, our history, and our government; Frizzle clearly does not. Thus many of his opinions are quite frankly crap. :tongue:
 

Osiris

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I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one bothered by Frizzles comments in this thread. However, I think we need to step back and gain some perspective when dealing with him. He removed his age from his profile; but I seem to recall he is only 19. Also he lives in the UK, not the United States. So his world and political views are bound to be different from ours. While many of the UK members have a near encyclopedic knowledge of America, our history, and our government; Frizzle clearly does not. Thus many of his opinions are quite frankly crap. :tongue:

You are so right about perspective babe. This is why rather than condemn, you share and explain. I would hope that Frizzle has learned from us as we could probably learn from his perspective.
 

B_New End

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What about having to prove you're not a felon is reasonable?

Nope, not reasonable.

Further, who is to determine what is pornographic?

Hey, if we had a bunch of 13 year old posting pictures of themselves with dildos up their ass and jizz on their face, I'd say it's pretty porngraphic.

Do you see anything wrong with the photo ID law? Where a photographer takes a picture of the model with a photo ID, and keeps it on file? I like that law.

It would be very inconvenient on the internet, and would violate privacy, but again... I dunno.
 

Osiris

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The Federal Government's electronic security is crap. Do I want my info out there on the net for someone to get? My wife made the point, if you have a stalker who has access to this database (and trust me, there will be), he now has your home address, SS#, etc.

This would be a disaster of titanic proportions.