Grammar and Spelling

[TomCat84]

That's also incorrect!

It is improper to place a comma before "and" but the issue with the original example is that it is a improperly constructed sentence.

I have to disagree.

"I have apples, oranges, blackberries and strawberries." is improper

"I have apples, oranges, blackberries, and strawberries." is correct

Perhaps the comma would have been inappropriate in the case of the 24 hr fitness sign- I admit it looks awkward, but putting a comma before "and" is definitely not improper.

 

[HazelGod]

See - that's a grammatical rule you instictively know.

Actually, the rule for the comma has nothing to do with the conjunction and everything to do with what it's doing. If you're joining two independent clauses, you need the comma to mark that separation. For dependent clauses, you don't.

Bob ate shit and died of dysentery.

Bob ate shit, and Mary laughed at his funeral.

 

[TomCat84]

Actually there's another, where the little-understood semicolon comes into play:

"Please do not drop the weights; put them back when you are done."

The semicolon is used to join two connected, independent clauses...in this case, the two having a shared predicate.

True fact. :biggrin1:​

I think it's more a case of using the agreeing plural verb form are when using data.

I considered the semi colon, but semi colons have always been the bane of my existence, so I tend to avoid their usage.

 

[TomCat84]

Obviously the intent of the first sentence is clear, even though its literal meaning is not what the writer intended. literally, it means this:

"Please do not drop the weights. Do not put them back when you are done."

It is very difficult to write perfectly and none of us succeed totally.

Of course it's difficult to write perfectly, but big companies like 24 Hour Fitness should not get a free pass. They shpould make 200% sure that nothing is misspelled or grammatically incorrect.

 

[TomCat84]

Here:
Rules for Comma Usage

 

[Calboner]

That's also incorrect!

It is improper to place a comma before "and"

You have made up this rule out of nothing. Here is rule 1 from a site written by people who teach English composition at Purdue University (the first hit that I got from a Google search for "comma use"):

1. Use commas to separate independent clauses when they are joined by any of these seven coordinating conjunctions: and, but, for, or, nor, so, yet.

Besides this rule, I could support my claim by citing innumerable passages by indisputably competent authors.

The use of a comma in the sentence under discussion falls under rule 11 of the previously quoted page:

11. Use commas wherever necessary to prevent possible confusion or misreading.

Now you say (note your own grammatical error in the first sentence):

the issue with the original example is that it is a improperly constructed sentence.

There are two choices:

a) insert the modifier "please" - "Please do not drop the weights and please put them back when you are done"

b) Make 2 distinct statements on the sign -

Please do not drop the weights!
Please return weights to the rack when done!
​

​

These are both possible solutions, but they are verbose in comparison with TomCat's version, which is perfectly correct.

Edited to add:

Actually there's another, where the little-understood semicolon comes into play:

"Please do not drop the weights; put them back when you are done."

The semicolon is used to join two connected, independent clauses...in this case, the two having a shared predicate.

Yes, but the intent of the original formulation was to have the "please" govern both clauses.

 

[HazelGod]

"I have apples, oranges, blackberries and strawberries." is improper

"I have apples, oranges, blackberries, and strawberries." is correct

Either form is correct in modern US English. While the Chicago manual says to use it, the AP style guide says it's perfectly acceptable to omit the serial comma.

I only use it if not doing so would create any undesired ambiguity in my sentence.



I can't believe I got sucked into this goddamned discussion...again.

 

[PUSSYLUV]

Really, with pussy and dicks all over and we have to expect to watch our gramma(sic)

 

[Calboner]

Either form is correct in modern US English. While the Chicago manual says to use it, the AP style guide says it's perfectly acceptable to omit the serial comma.

It's pretty much a difference between newspaper and magazine style (no serial comma) and book style (serial comma). Being bookish, I favor book style. :tongue:

 

[798686]

We were taught to omit the last comma as it's unecessary. Sometimes makes it sound a bit odd, tho.

 

[BIGBULL29]

But grammar isn't a set of arbitrary rules you have to learn by rote. It's a means of expressing yourself clearly.

I was hopeless at learning the rules of grammar in school but I enjoyed reading books and absorbed a lot of the rules anyway. I passed the English exam largely by instinct.

See - that's a grammatical rule you instictively know.

I agree.

The world is just becoming so anti-intellectual that people think that correct grammar and punctuation are just old-fashioned, being strictly for those university professors, etc.

Without correct punctuation and grammar, miscommunication is likely. That's the practicality of it. It's not just "form" for form's sake.

 

[TomCat84]

Either form is correct in modern US English. While the Chicago manual says to use it, the AP style guide says it's perfectly acceptable to omit the serial comma.

I only use it if not doing so would create any undesired ambiguity in my sentence.



I can't believe I got sucked into this goddamned discussion...again.

Maybe it was because my old English teachers would beat me silly for ommitting....because I've used a comma before "and" in those situations for as long as I can remember.

Edit: spelling/grammar mistakes.......OH THE IRONY!

 

[FRE]

Actually there's another, where the little-understood semicolon comes into play:

"Please do not drop the weights; put them back when you are done."

The semicolon is used to join two connected, independent clauses...in this case, the two having a shared predicate.

True fact. :biggrin1:
​

I think it's more a case of using the agreeing plural verb form are when using data.

It seems that semicolons are used more often now than they were in the past. It makes sense to me. Sometimes, instead of having two separate but closely related sentences, it works well to have one sentence instead but with the two parts separated by a semicolon. That makes it clear to the reader that the two thoughts are closely related thereby making it easier to read.

In earlier times, sentences and paragraphs tended to be extremely long which made reading more difficult. Presumably writing is done to communicate in which case it makes sense to write in such a way as to make it easy for the reader to understand; that is the intent of many grammatical rules.

 

[Countryguy63]

Russin' Fussin' Meddlin'...:wink:

Yur cute when your annoyed :tongue:

 

[curious_angel]

As absorbing as this thread is, I have to get back to my current favourite, "hotdog we have a weiner".

weiner or wiener? Hotdog or hotdog? Hotdog, we have a weiner?

 

[Calboner]

As absorbing as this thread is, I have to get back to my current favourite, "hotdog we have a weiner".

weiner or wiener? Hotdog or hotdog? Hotdog, we have a weiner?

"Hot dog" (two words). "Wiener." "Weiner" would rhyme with "diner." The word comes from "Wien," which is German for "Vienna," not from "Wein," which means "wine."

 

[D_Relentless Original]

There, their or they're, seems to always be spelt wrong in a lot of posts.maybe even in this one.

 

[Lex]

A misplaced apostrophe I can forgive. But misuse "less" and "fewer" and imma go OFF!!

Use less when talking of things that are measured.

Use fewer when speaking of items that can be counted.

Yes, those WalMart signs saying "10 Items or Less" are WRONG.

 

[Countryguy63]

As absorbing as this thread is, I have to get back to my current favourite, "hotdog we have a weiner".

weiner or wiener? Hotdog or hotdog? Hotdog, we have a weiner?

"I before E except after C, or pronounced like A in neighbor and weigh" How sad is it that my spelling rules are based on a kids rhyme?? :redface:

"hotdog" starts the exclamation, so I would assume capitalized??

 

[Countryguy63]

A misplaced apostrophe I can forgive. But misuse "less" and "fewer" and imma go OFF!!

Use less when talking of things that are measured.

Use fewer when speaking of items that can be counted.

Yes, those WalMart signs saying "10 Items or Less" are WRONG.

I could care less!! :tongue: