Grammar Issues

[Kevin4sex]

Absolutely great and fabulous thread.

The thing that most gets me and my friends pissed off is the improper use of pronouns. Announcing one's ignorance or affecting ignorance has never ever been cool!
What I don't understand about the anti grammar nazis is they totally don't seem to understand the grammar nazi is only doing them a favor, they will be much better perceived and as a result treated better if they understand they are being given
constructive criticism.

 

[schwulboy1989]

What are the most common English Grammar issues you see on websites such as these?

Also, if you have any questions about English Grammar, feel free to ask here or send me a message Yes, and thanks for the offer. When should one use "toward" and when "towards". And is your offer good for the future or just for now?

-A Grammar Enthusiast

Either form is completely appropriate. The determining factor is where one lives. British English generally dictates that "towards" is appropriate, and American English employs "toward." Both forms are, however, interchangeable

My offer is always good. I will always do my best to answer any questions posed

 

[schwulboy1989]

Hey, schwulboy, you must find it frustrating to care about grammar and see how a lot of people write ... ESPECIALLY online, in email ... and let's not even get into texting!

I pay a lot of attention to what I write IRL, especially about work or home stuff or something else that's of great importance to me. However, I've noticed that I make a lot more mistakes online, just to get the thoughts out ... which shows sloppy thinking on my part.

It does bother me, to some extent, to see what technology has done to the English language. While it frustrates me to see how bastardized English is becoming, I am also aware that people from different backgrounds may not have had the same education that I received, nor the same enthusiasm for wanting to keep a language pure. I also recognize that because English is such a widespread language, it is going to change over time. But if we abandon the rules altogether, what are we left with?

I also don't wish to come across as a "Grammar Nazi." I fully recognize that I overuse/misuse the ellipsis (...), and also admit that colons ), semicolons (, and hyphens (-) bring me the most difficulty. I am not infallible, nor do I claim to be. I actually find that I am only a stickler for fully-proper grammar when I am in an argument, when I am writing a paper, or when I am trying to be serious. When I am more relaxed, I tend to not let common mistakes bother me

I'm also notorious for forgetting to capitalize "I" (I blame my German tutelage).

I actually wish to emphasize proof-reading more than anything

 

[vince]

Monster. Grammar, spelling, and punctuation are devices that make the written word understandable. I understand that not everyone has the same advantages as far as upbringing and education. But anyone who is aware that their grammar is not good, ought to make the effort to improve. My grammar is far from perfect, but I make the effort to use the best I can and I proof read everything I write.

You're a builder, correct? Think of grammar as analogous to the annotations and dimensions on a set of plans; they help you understand the drawings. If I gave you the plans for a house with no dimensions or notes, you'd be like, WTF? You could still build it, but it wouldn't be so easy; because you'd have to decipher all the information yourself. You probably get pissed at the architect when he's lazy or makes a lot of mistakes, right? I know I do. Well, writing is no different. It's all about communication.

I just think that people should try to improve their skills and knowledge no matter what it is they are doing. Saying "screw correct grammar" is stupid. Very few people are asking for perfection, just do the best you can and make an effort.

It's is unfair and not nice to be a Grammar Nazi and to pick apart another person's writing when debating an issue or an idea. It's kind of a cheap way to score debate points.

But on the other hand, not giving a crap about language is equally cheap and can give the reader the impression that you are not serious and don't really give a fuck about what they think of your argument.

 

[D_Rod Staffinbone]

just a comment about incomplete sentences and using all lower case.
i do both. it is a conscious decision. i've been doing it with my friends in email for many many years. it's a style and a tradition that predates lpsg. i know it drives some people crazy.

 

[D_Chaumbrelayne_Copprehead]

It does bother me, to some extent, to see what technology has done to the English language. While it frustrates me to see how bastardized English is becoming, I am also aware that people from different backgrounds may not have had the same education that I received, nor the same enthusiasm for wanting to keep a language pure. I also recognize that because English is such a widespread language, it is going to change over time. But if we abandon the rules altogether, what are we left with?

You bring up an interesting point. With so many people communicating on the internet ... many of them using English although it's not their native tongue ... that's bound to change things over time. As I can tell you already know from how you worded your post, the language does change over time, to fit people's needs for its usage. However, as I'm sure you've figured out, there's always that dynamic tension between the need for rules (so we all understand each other) and the need for growth and development (so the language goes on being ultra-practical for the best possible communication).

I also don't wish to come across as a "Grammar Nazi." I fully recognize that I overuse/misuse the ellipsis (...), and also admit that colons ), semicolons (, and hyphens (-) bring me the most difficulty. I am not infallible, nor do I claim to be. I actually find that I am only a stickler for fully-proper grammar when I am in an argument, when I am writing a paper, or when I am trying to be serious. When I am more relaxed, I tend to not let common mistakes bother me

Man, if I couldn't use ellipses ... I don't think I could communicate online! I don't use them nearly as much in formal communication. However, they are a great reflection of how I think ... and I think that applies to a lot of people.

 

[Pecker Check]

We seem to have two threads going. It’s one thing to prescribe usage and another to describe it. I do believe communication can improve when speakers take the trouble to learn basic “rules” of grammar. In my posting, though, I was not saying that anyone who can’t parse a sentence is “stupid.” I meant to say that I’m caught in a time warp attributable to staying awake in a fifth-grade English class. Today’s school teacher who says “whoever knows the answer, raise their hand” may very well know exactly what “they” are doing. I just may never be comfortable joining “them.” For one reason or another, equally well educated speakers of English may not use the language identically.

 

[BIGBULL29]

I don't think that you and Nick can possibly mean what you are saying. Mass nouns are nouns that (1) are always grammatically singular, never plural, and (2) never take an indefinite article ("a" or "an"). They are contrasted with so-called count nouns, which are nouns that either have a plural form or take an indefinite article. The nouns "water" and "air" are complicated cases, because they have both a mass-noun form (e.g., "This glass if full of water," "The air is clean") and a count-noun form (e.g., "He leadeth me beside the still waters," "She assumed an air of innocence"). But that complication does not alter the fact that it is utterly fantastic to suppose that "people" is, or ever has been, a mass noun in English.

We do not say "Much people" (as we would if "people" were a mass noun) but rather "Many people"; and by "we," I mean to include you and Nick, because I don't believe that either of you would ever use "people" in that fashion. We do not say "People is" but "People are." And so on.

Edited to add: Maybe you two are thinking of an analogy with a term like "clothes." This is a word that is grammatically plural and never singular, but we don't say "five clothes," etc.

I understand your point, Calboner (and agree with you, as well).

According to one of the defintions of people is "persons considered as numerous individuals". So, it is very logical.

Prescriptive grammarians do not consider this as an incorrect anyways(and descriptive ones never would LOL, no matter the logic).

I understand Nick's point if the world "people" were only able to be used in a purely collective sense.

people definition | Dictionary.com

 

[BIGBULL29]

The anti-intellectualism is running high in this thread and it's turning me off -- big time!!!

From a practical standpoint, the world without grammar and punctuation would cause incredible miscommunication problems, leading to disaster.

 

[D_Jared Padalicki]

Can someone translate this whole thing in Dutch?

 

[bek2335]

This is such a great thread! I came across this article earlier and thought some of you here might find it interesting:

Do You Have a Cow About He/She/It? - MSN Encarta

 

[D_Rod Staffinbone]

The anti-intellectualism is running high in this thread and it's turning me off -- big time!!!

From a practical standpoint, the world without grammar and punctuation would cause incredible miscommunication problems, leading to disaster.

so proper grammar got the world to the wonderful state of affairs that exists today? or did that happen because myself and a couple of friends, who are m.i.t. graduates (i'm not), decided to use only lower case in all correspondence back in the late 1980's as a time saving device? i believe that things were already on a downward spiral before grammar took a dive. lack of responsibility and greed are major contributors to several of the world's current disasters, in my opinion.

 

[bek2335]

Monster. Grammar, spelling, and punctuation are devices that make the written word understandable. I understand that not everyone has the same advantages as far as upbringing and education. But anyone who is aware that their grammar is not good, ought to make the effort to improve. My grammar is far from perfect, but I make the effort to use the best I can and I proof read everything I write.

You're a builder, correct? Think of grammar as analogous to the annotations and dimensions on a set of plans; they help you understand the drawings. If I gave you the plans for a house with no dimensions or notes, you'd be like, WTF? You could still build it, but it wouldn't be so easy; because you'd have to decipher all the information yourself. You probably get pissed at the architect when he's lazy or makes a lot of mistakes, right? I know I do. Well, writing is no different. It's all about communication.

I just think that people should try to improve their skills and knowledge no matter what it is they are doing. Saying "screw correct grammar" is stupid. Very few people are asking for perfection, just do the best you can and make an effort.

It's is unfair and not nice to be a Grammar Nazi and to pick apart another person's writing when debating an issue or an idea. It's kind of a cheap way to score debate points.

But on the other hand, not giving a crap about language is equally cheap and can give the reader the impression that you are not serious and don't really give a fuck about what they think of your argument.

Excellent post, Vince.

 

[Amber1]

I often write in text slang (depending on my mood) which probably pisses quite a few people off!!

But frankly I'm young and everyone I know does it so I don't care...

I'm sure I make plenty of grammar cockups, but the things is I'm not too bothered about that either.

I would never tell someone else how to write their posts...so i don't think someone should do it to me!!

if I wanted to be lectured i'd go back 2 skool!!

I'm all for tolerance!!

 

[bek2335]

It was never my intention, nor likely the intention of many of those who agree with me, to tell anyone else how to write his or her posts. I just want to make the point that I believe good grammar and correct spelling are valuable and admirable.

 

[D_Rod Staffinbone]

It was never my intention, nor likely the intention of many of those who agree with me, to tell anyone else how to write his or her posts. I just want to make the point that I believe good grammar and correct spelling are valuable and admirable.

i agree.

one common error these days that bothers me, is to use, for example, "joe and me ___", when used as the subject, not "joe and i____" (which is correct). i've heard newscasters get this wrong recently.

there are numerous grammatical errors in this post, i know.
thanks guys. it's good to start being aware again. as in lack of exercise, we can get sloppy. use it or lose it. sorry if i was on the defensive.

 

[BIGBULL29]

so proper grammar got the world to the wonderful state of affairs that exists today? or did that happen because myself and a couple of friends, who are m.i.t. graduates (i'm not), decided to use only lower case in all correspondence back in the late 1980's as a time saving device? i believe that things were already on a downward spiral before grammar took a dive. lack of responsibility and greed are major contributors to several of the world's current disasters, in my opinion.

You really missed my point, and perhaps it's my fault.

Incorrect grammar and punctuation lead to miscommunication and could have major consequences.

Imagine if laws were written without using standard grammar and punctuation. Wow! (I'm not just talking about lower-case letters, my friend). Also, imagine how differently people would read the Bible without grammatical and punctutation system.

It's not just about liking correct grammar and punctutation for correct grammar and punctuation's sake (although I do).

 

[IntoxicatingToxin]

I've seen all manner of grammatical errors on the internet. Can't even begin to name them all here.

On a funny note, however, I use such good grammar that people tease me for it. :frown: I play World of Warcraft, and have multiple characters on one server... and I've actually had people figure out who I am when I'm on my alts because I use full stops ALL THE TIME. :tongue:

 

[schwulboy1989]

i sometimes use ellipses as if they are commas or in between connected phrases...because commas can be confusing, and an ellipsis gives a clearer idea of a pause...also, because my sentence structure becomes confusing and I find that putting an ellipsis between certain phrases helps to break my writing into more manageable bites...

i tend to start a new paragraph when i move on to a new idea.

clearly, i'm also guilty of not capitalizing i.

i'm also curious 2 hear about wut u think about ppl using shorthand...does it actually make anything faster, for the reader or writer?

 

[Incocknito]

Here's a question:

Are decisions taken or made?

News readers keep saying 'so and so took the decision; the decision was taken by'.

I thought decisions were made?