Granting Abdulmutallab U.S. citizen rights will cost lives

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_starinvestor, Jan 4, 2010.

  1. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Is there any particular reason that we should give an Al Queda operative the same rights as a U.S. citizen?

    This lunatic just tried to blow up 300 innocent people on an airplane.

    Why shouldn't we waterboard Abdulmutallab? The ticking time bomb scenario is here

    So he brings in a high dollar attorney and exercises his newfound 'right to remain silent.' This murderous loon was singing like a bird before our new liberal policy hand-delivered Perry Mason to his defense and he turned into a clam.

    And right at the critical brink in which he probably would have devulged pertinent information which could aid in preventing the future attacks that he alluded to upon capture.

    It just seems ridiculous.
     
  2. vince

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    You know very well that foreign nationals are subject to US law while on US soil. That includes the right to legal representation. It may seem ridiculous if you want to short-circuit your thinking process and jump to a conclusion, but if you consider the alternatives to due process for all for a minute, you'd realize that these are laws and rights best left the way they are. As a foreigner living or traveling outside of Canada, I sure would not want to be subject to a different set of laws and rights than the locals.
     
  3. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Are we saying this because the Nation learned something after doing the same actions with the Shoe Bomber back during the Bush Administration, or are we just saying this because some people are just desperate to make "libs" look bad?
     
  4. dj30905

    dj30905 New Member

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    Probably a little of both. Besides, the whole "liberal" and "conservative" pissing match gets old. Half of 'em don't even know what a liberal or conservative is, but they enjoy throwing those "insults":rolleyes:
     
  5. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    If only the OP knew this? But I digress, of course...
     
  6. dj30905

    dj30905 New Member

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    No point in tryin'. I've all but given up. It's already stated that even as a foreigner, he's subject to our laws and rights. I know it might not be fair in a way to us, but it's also fair to him. I know he may be a nasty little worm who deserves none of it, but it's still a right that should be for everyone.
    Besides, I'm a "libservative". I'm all for change as necessary, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
     
    #6 dj30905, Jan 5, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  7. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    You always did, and you still do, put me in mind of Hemingway.
     
  8. Phil Ayesho

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    um-'
    because that is the damn LAW in the Untied States.

    We PROSECUTE criminals.
    And then we lock them up for life in the most secure prison facilities in the world, where they get treated exactly like any rapist or murderer.


    The Supreme Court has made it clear, albeit pretty damn late, that neither the president, nor congress has the authority to deny due process to anyone taken captive under any circumstance.


    The military commissions have only been retained for the express purpose of getting around the fact that BUSH treated prisoners unconstitutionally, and created situations in which we literally can not prosecute folk, because there is either zero actual evidence of a crime, or because all the evidence obtained is inadmissible due to torture... which, BTW was ALSO ruled as illegal.


    I find it amazingly hypocritical, and transcendently stupid that the same folks arguing that we can not trust our government to, say, administer or regulate healthcare, are the same folks arguing that we CAN trust them to violate SOME peoples' civil rights without getting carried away and violating OUR civil rights.

    If you guys want to sell mistrust of government... there is nothing any government can be trusted with LESS than the power of thumbscrew.

    If you don't LIKE being a citizen of the United Sates...if you can't support the Constitution that all patriots owe allegiance to, then get the hell out and move to some country where the government doesn't have to obey its own laws...


    Oh, and BTW... you can't GRANT someone civil rights. Our law says we have to treat EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE by OUR legal standards. That Civil Rights are HUMAN RIGHTS to which ALL people are entitled.

    It was kind of the entire rationale behind our revolution, numbskull.
     
    #8 Phil Ayesho, Jan 5, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  9. ubered

    ubered New Member

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    Absolutely!!

    Amazing how at the first hint of terrorism people are willing to sell out on the due legal process and democratic governance they supposedly stand for...
     
  10. HazelGod

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    Amen.

    Pearls before swine, I fear...but well said, nonetheless.
     
  11. houtx48

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    I doubt star gives a rats ass one way or the other.
     
  12. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    Terrorism presents issues that "ordinary" crime does not

    Accordingly, some very well-respected legal scholars may and will argue that a different set of standards should apply, and thus, no, this fellow should not be treated with normal due process
     
  13. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    LOL

    which is not to say that I necessarily agree with it, but the arguments are there, as is the long, historical line of jurisprudence, going back centuries before the Bush Administration

    admittedly, I would have a greater problem with it being applied against an American animal rights activist, than I would with its application against an Islamic terrorist
     
  14. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    'Foriegn nationals' and 'known member of Al Queda who indisputably tried to fry 300 innocent people' can be placed into two different camps without much trouble.

    The latter:
    1. Is not a citizen
    2. Is a killer
    3. Is a terrorist
    4. Didn't even check baggage/ only intention was mass murder
    5. Does not deserve 'due process' or anything of the sort. Deserves to be dipped in lava until he gives more details about the next attacks.

    One other thing to keep in mind - that guy gets that bomb detonated and kills those people, and Obama is laying around in a beach chair in Waikiki watching locals in thongs....would be more fallout than reading childrens books to young pupils during a terrorist attack; no?
     
  15. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    The revolution? Because terrorists should be given due process? Please re-read some history books.

    I'm all for a U.S. citizen getting due process. I'm all for Vince getting due process if he skips across the border and robs a Barnes & Nobles. However, due process/allowing someone the right such that he must be proven guilty etc etc.

    Are you confused Phil, whether or not Abdulmuttalab was innocent or guilty? Maybe it was a senior citizen that coughed up an explosive and it lended right next to Abdul's pecker and caught on fire?

    No need to tie up the courts and risk another attack in this scenario. If the leaders of gov't are too weak to allow for small exceptions in extreme circumstances involving terror and murder, then I am anxious to get some new people in there.
     
  16. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    So trying the "shoe bomber" and convicting him in Criminal Court was a mistake by the previous administration?
     
  17. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    yes
     
  18. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Let's remember this the next time we have another person like Theodore Kaczynski (The Unabomber), Timothy McVeigh (Oklahoma City Bombing), Eric Robert Rudolph (Olympic Bomber), Luigi Galleani (Wall Street Bomber), Bruce Edwards Ivins (Anthrax Scare), James W. Von Brunn (Holocaust Memorial Shooting), James & John McNamara (Los Angeles Times Bombing) attacking on our soil, OK? :rolleyes:

    The only difference between domestic terrorists and the ones from overseas is their nationality and/or religious background, and that's not enough to make "special arrangements" even if you are scared of Islam, the Middle East and terrorists. Besides, just like the Shoe Bomber, Abdulmutallab is a complete idiot. If he really wanted to destroy the plane, he could have done it in the bathroom where he stayed for 20 minutes. Did he have to go back to his seat with obvious cover, and announce to everyone that he was trying to destroy the plane? Smart move, Einstein...

    None of these so-called masterminds of terror have a battle concept that goes beyond a typical street gang. Because of their money, they get into areas that most regular people do not. Any of this stuff is preventable if people just pay attention. We just tend to be really lapsed when there hasn't been an attempt, but go to insane paranoia once some Dudley Do-Right tries and fails.
     
  19. Onslow

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    Does it now?
    Well Richard Reid was convicted which should give you some level of the happies.

    Regarding the US courts and trials etc. keep in mind that Timmy McVeigh and Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were all tried, convicted in US courts and slaughtered on US soil so there may still be a chair or some chemical filled needles for Abdulmutallab~~in othere words justice.
     
  20. B_New End

    B_New End New Member

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    Look out everyone!! If we don;t waterboard the underwear bomber, the shelves in the men's section at Fred Meyer are going to attack you in the dressing room!
     
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