Granting Abdulmutallab U.S. citizen rights will cost lives

Qua

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i think you missed the context of the post. My point is that so many things have been altered/amended, that there shouldn't be a 'constitutional' battlecry on the issue of enhanced interrogation.

well, I was more just pointing out the irony of conservatives' tendancy to pick and choose which large expansions of power are acceptable, which is exactly what liberals do. I was in no way raising a "'constitutional' battlecry," just pointing out an irony in neo-con ideology. Especially because this one aims to destroy due process and the ban on cruel and unusual punishment, a more glaring contradiction of constitutional principle than socialized medicine. Oh, and I tried to point out, constitutional principle (rather than pragmatic provisions) is fucking relevant until the cows come home--I don't buy the "there were no terrorists trying to kill hundreds" argument...there were.

I'm tired of them taking my conservatism from me, dangit!
 
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slurper_la

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If that red writing in your last post was your response; you must live in the trunk of somebody's car. You are incorrect on almost every word of the response.

you moronic jackass, crawl out from under that slime covered rock under which you live and learn something realistic about the world we live in - that which Bush & Co created

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez5XMByYtGo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaK2pnMh42k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHluAmdp87Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07yGKv_YqzE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plxgxqjlg5Q
 

ZOS23xy

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Hmm. So, in order to be a man in al Qaida, you have to stuff a bomb in your underwear and blow your penis up, hoping to kill Americans. This enough is funny. It should be a point of shame.

However, the man is in custody. He might never see freedom again. If in a jail, he might get revenge stabbed.

The man has been talking as if guilty. He has been giving information.

And star investor....I'm still here....
 

B_starinvestor

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What is your point, slurpy? You want to use Rachel Maddow's slanted left-wing masturbation-fest as some sort of frame of reference? Are you trying to get me to counter with clips from Hannity's cheerleading orgy's for the right wing?

you, Hout, Sargon, et al - you can't even order dinner without mixing Bush/Cheney into your garbled rhetoric.
 

B_Nick4444

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The only difference between domestic terrorists and the ones from overseas is their nationality and/or religious background, and that's not enough to make "special arrangements" even if you are scared of Islam, the Middle East and terrorists.

actually the issue is not that simple

even the Euros recognize the difference between mere criminality, and "terrorism", which goes to the issue of national security (securing "terrorist" status for animal rights activists I found unreasonable and abhorrent)

for example, see Artcle 15 of the ECHR (The European Convention on Human Rights):


Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms as amended by Protocol No. 11 (ECHR)

Article15

Derogation in time of emergency

1. In time of war or other public emergency threatening the life of the nation any High Contracting Party may take measures derogating from its obligations under this Convention to the extent strictly required by the exigencies of the situation, provided that such measures are not inconsistent with its other obligations under
international law.

2. No derogation from Article 2, except in respect of deaths resulting from lawful acts of war, or from Articles 3, 4 (paragraph 1) and 7 shall be made under this provision.

3. Any High Contracting Party availing itself of this right of derogation shall keep the Secretary General of the Council of Europe fully informed of the measures which it has taken and the reasons therefor. It shall also inform the Secretary General of the Council of Europe when such measures have ceased to operate and the provisions of the Convention are again being fully executed.
 

B_VinylBoy

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actually the issue is not that simple

even the Euros recognize the difference between mere criminality, and "terrorism", which goes to the issue of national security (securing "terrorist" status for animal rights activists I found unreasonable and abhorrent)

for example, see Artcle 15 of the ECHR (The European Convention on Human Rights):


Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms as amended by Protocol No. 11 (ECHR)

Article15

Derogation in time of emergency

1. In time of war or other public emergency threatening the life of the nation any High Contracting Party may take measures derogating from its obligations under this Convention to the extent strictly required by the exigencies of the situation, provided that such measures are not inconsistent with its other obligations under
international law.

2. No derogation from Article 2, except in respect of deaths resulting from lawful acts of war, or from Articles 3, 4 (paragraph 1) and 7 shall be made under this provision.

3. Any High Contracting Party availing itself of this right of derogation shall keep the Secretary General of the Council of Europe fully informed of the measures which it has taken and the reasons therefor. It shall also inform the Secretary General of the Council of Europe when such measures have ceased to operate and the provisions of the Convention are again being fully executed.

OK then... let's see if you actually understand anything you copied/pasted.
Using the information you just posted, please explain the differences between Timothy McVeigh, Richard Reid, Theodore Kaczynski and Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab? Which one are just "criminals"? Which ones are "terrorists"? And why?
 

B_Nick4444

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[FONT=Goudy,Times New Roman,Times,serif]There is no single, universally accepted definition of terrorism. Terrorism is defined in the [/FONT][FONT=Goudy-Italic,Times New Roman,Times,serif]Code of Federal Regulations [/FONT][FONT=Goudy,Times New Roman,Times,serif]as “...the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.” (28 C.F.R. Section 0.85)

Terrorism 2000/2001

cf.:

[/FONT]The word ‘terrorism’ describes, instead, an overriding motivation, a way of acting, rather than the objective circumstances of acting. Terrorism is nothing but common crimes although committed with an overriding motivation of imposing extreme fear on the nation as such. The author presents the conceptual grounds of the phenomenon of terrorism as it has evolved through history, before enquiring into the meaning of ‘terrorist crimes’: the overriding motivation associated with the concept of terrorism constitutes the degree of cognate dangerousness of terrorist crimes.

Is Terrorism a Crime or an Aggravating Factor in Sentencing? -- Saif-Alden Wattad 4 (5): 1017 -- Journal of International Criminal Justice

let me ask you: as someone who is supportive of creating "hate crimes" legislation, that is as someone who finds the cognitive and emotional rationale of violence based on "hate" relevant to the definition of a crime, why would you find the distinction irrelevant in this situation?

(also, by looking at the FBI definition, can animal rights activists, who were all so very careful to avoid injury to life and limb, be properly assigned the "terrorist" designation?)

question also -- a foreigner who is otherwise on US soil or jurisdiction, for reasons other than committing acts of terrorism, I have no problem with granting the rights and protections afforded Americans -- but what if his entry into the country was solely to commit acts of terrorism -- the civil standards, or should he be deemed an enemy combatant?

the American Revolutionary Army, circa 1776 -- terrorists? why, or why not?
 

B_VinylBoy

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let me ask you:

SIGH... completely ignoring my question just to try and divert the issue again? :rolleyes:

as someone who is supportive of creating "hate crimes" legislation, that is as someone who finds the cognitive and emotional rationale of violence based on "hate" relevant to the definition of a crime, why would you find the distinction irrelevant in this situation?

Seriously, you're trying to draw some kind of irrational parallel between the need for hate crime legislation and whether or not you feel a non-US Citizen should be tried as a criminal in our court system if he commits an act of terrorism? Despite the two issues being completely unrelated, there is one correlation that I can draw. In both instances, the accused is tried in a court of law and is either found guilty or not guilty of a crime, which is what we're supposed to be doing as a nation to begin with. Period. Whereas in your world, Abdulmutallab would already have electrodes on his testicles and his back on a water board only because of what you feel. No trial. No actual criminal conviction. Even though he didn't kill anyone. That's not how this Nation works.

It doesn't matter what I feel or what I would like to see happen to someone who tried to light a bomb in a plane or brutally beat and kill two guys for holding hands or kissing in public. That's one of the main reasons why we have a judicial process... so there is a civil and just way to deal with people who break laws. Just because there's no "universally accepted definition" to terrorism doesn't mean that we essentially throw the rule book out the window when someone commits a crime that can classify as such. Besides... let's not even act as if you would care if there was a global definition for terrorism anyhow.

a foreigner who is otherwise on US soil or jurisdiction, for reasons other than committing acts of terrorism, I have no problem with granting the rights and protections afforded Americans -- but what if his entry into the country was solely to commit acts of terrorism -- the civil standards, or should he be deemed an enemy combatant?

CASE... IN... POINT.
Now you're frantically grasping at straws by pigeonhole the issue even further. This one gets "fair treatment", but this one gets "enhanced interrogation techniques"? Seriously, just admit that you want America to torture people that scare you just so you can feel more secure at night. It's sad to watch you try to validate your paranoia.

Now, for a second time. Timothy McVeigh, Richard Reid, Theodore Kaczynski and Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. Who do you feel should have received "civil treatment" and who should have been subjected to "torture"?
 

B_Nick4444

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Now, for a second time. Timothy McVeigh, Richard Reid, Theodore Kaczynski and Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. Who do you feel should have received "civil treatment" and who should have been subjected to "torture"?


there was no mention of, or acquiescence to "torture" in my original or subsequent post ....

the only thing I addressed was the standards of due process and procedure -- there are serious issues as to whether terrorists should be subject to normal criminal jurisprudence, or whether the legal procedures and standards to be employed in cases of terrorism should be different
 

B_VinylBoy

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there was no mention of, or acquiescence to "torture" in my original or subsequent post ....

the only thing I addressed was the standards of due process and procedure -- there are serious issues as to whether terrorists should be subject to normal criminal jurisprudence, or whether the legal procedures and standards to be employed in cases of terrorism should be different

You didn't have to mention it because we can read right through you. You're not that clever. That is, unless, you can suggest what our governmennt was supposed to do with Abdulmutallab if trying him in a normal criminal trial, in the same manner as Richard Reid, is wrong? But I'm sure you'll dodge this question too... :rolleyes:
 

ZOS23xy

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OK then... let's see if you actually understand anything you copied/pasted.
Using the information you just posted, please explain the differences between Timothy McVeigh, Richard Reid, Theodore Kaczynski and Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab? Which one are just "criminals"? Which ones are "terrorists"? And why?

They're criminals and terrorists. Violating laws and killing people or functioning to kill people is a crime. Richard Reid got no sympathy anywhere. Mr Abdulamutallab will get none either.

Differences. Two are Americans.
 

B_VinylBoy

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They're criminals and terrorists. Violating laws and killing people or functioning to kill people is a crime. Richard Reid got no sympathy anywhere. Mr Abdulamutallab will get none either.

Differences. Two are Americans.

And because Abdulamutallab is not an American some people feel as if we can do whatever we want to him, which is why there's all this noise being made about not trying him in regular court as a criminal. Saying that it's a "threat" to our security, knowing that Reid was tried on our soil after his failed terrorist attempt by the previous administration with no opposition, is nothing more than a hypocritical cop-out. The other choice would be to suggest that Bush was wrong for doing the same thing Obama is doing with this current case, but when the goal is to make the current administration look bad very few of these partisan individuals would be willing to be that honest.

You and I know this... unfortunately, some people in their need to look forbearing with embellished scribe don't think the rest of us can see where this all leads to.
 
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B_Nick4444

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still don't get what you're trying to point out, bro

the names you enumerate are clearly those of individuals who would meet the definition of "terrorist" as outlined by the FBI

given that, there is a clear jurisprudential line of thinking puts "terrorism" outside the pale of criminal law, into its own category

at the time our Bill of Rights was penned, there were no such issues before the Founding Fathers

centuries later, the secular, godless, humanist (human-worshiping?) Euros write into Article 15 the very distinction

I don't see how you can deny that set of historical and objective facts

It is much the same as the dilemma confronted by the Allies at the conclusion of WWII -- what to do with the defeated trouble-making fascists? clearly, execution was in order, but the American psyche would have found it difficult to accept without some sort of judicial proceedings -- hence, the fabrication of the laws, jurisdiction, and fora that did not exist before -- a perfect, philosophically and ethically sound method of accomplishing those executions

likewise, the need for a differential treatment of terrorists from criminals

but, if you are trying to point out that one or more of the enumerated individuals received a treatment different from is being urged by some for this latest perpetrator, what of it?

the larger issues still arise
 

B_VinylBoy

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still don't get what you're trying to point out, bro

Then you obviously haven't been paying attention.

the names you enumerate are clearly those of individuals who would meet the definition of "terrorist" as outlined by the FBI

given that, there is a clear jurisprudential line of thinking puts "terrorism" outside the pale of criminal law, into its own category

Yet, McVeigh, Reid and Kaczynski (all terrorists as you declared) were tried AS CRIMINALS in a court of law like everyone else who commits a crime. Did you somehow ignore this fact? McVeigh & Kaczynski's acts of terrorism were successful in injuring AND killing innocent people. Abdulmutallab didn't kill anyone, even if his initial intent was to do so. Yet he's the one that needs to be denied the same criminal rights as the other three? By all means, talk more moralistic nonsense about the past as you try to explain why it was perfectly fine for three other known terrorists to go through our court system but this particular one isn't?

And let me give you a hint... saying that "we're currently at war" isn't a substantial excuse. We were also at war when Reid was caught in 2002.

at the time our Bill of Rights was penned, there were no such issues before the Founding Fathers

Attention all Conservatives!!! The "Founding Fathers" would like for you to stop poking at their dead corpses and move the hell on. :rolleyes:

I'm sick of these ridiculous arguments about preserving what a group of men thought back in the 1700s as if they, themselves, knew it all and didn't think what they created in the Constitution would not need to be reassessed and adjusted as the Nation moved forward. Why else would they write provisions that would allow any measure listed in the Constitution to be changed by issuing an amendment? It's a pathetic excuse, one that you've hid behind way too many times. You use this excuse as much as a religious zealot uses the King James Bible to deflect issues surrounding social inequality... just like a pro-lifer hiding behind the picture of a baby to avoid talking about sensitive issues regarding abortion. If the Constitution was a shield, it would have been destroyed to bits decades ago... or at least after the birthers were done exploiting it. :rolleyes:

centuries later, the secular, godless, humanist (human-worshiping?) Euros write into Article 15 the very distinction

I don't see how you can deny that set of historical and objective facts

I don't deny history. I just don't yearn to live like it's 1788, nor do I want our country to regress to such an antiquated way of life that doesn't take into consideration any kind of progressive growth towards diversity and social justice.

It is much the same as the dilemma confronted by the Allies at the conclusion of WWII -- what to do with the defeated trouble-making fascists?

So wait... when liberals were comparing the current War in Iraq to Vietnam you wanted to call them crazy. But now, you want to draw parallels with a wannabe terrorist with explosives in his panties, who got cold feet about bombing a plane, to the plights our Nation experienced during World War II? Can you make another inane and completely over exaggerated statement?

clearly, execution was in order,

So sayeth Judge NickySixxy... :rolleyes:

but the American psyche would have found it difficult to accept without some sort of judicial proceedings -- hence, the fabrication of the laws, jurisdiction, and fora that did not exist before -- a perfect, philosophically and ethically sound method of accomplishing those executions

Out of all of the unbelievable lines of equivocated bullshit you've let spew out of your brain, this one takes the cake. First off, more people in America are actually FOR the Death Penalty. It's been that way since the mid 60s and not a single thing has changed. So much for portraying people in this country as "too delicate" to handle volatile matters. http://sentencing.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451574769e20120a5e48900970b-pi

And we still use the same judicial procedure that was created back in the 1700s. The only difference now is that we have a more elaborate system in place that helps to prevent people from rushing to rash judgements just to satisfy their sadistic need to beat up on the boogeyman.

No wonder people like labeling you 666. :rolleyes:

likewise, the need for a differential treatment of terrorists from criminals

There isn't a need for it. Your own insecurities about our Nation, our Government and how it conducts things tell you that you do. Grow a backbone, or at least a set of balls.

but, if you are trying to point out that one or more of the enumerated individuals received a treatment different from is being urged by some for this latest perpetrator, what of it?

Because deep down, it's fueled by an enormous sense of paranoia, bigotry and institutionalized racism. That screams such extreme levels of bullshit that I simply will not tolerate from any person who claims to be an adult. How old are you again? Does your calendar say 2010 or do you still have a picture of Lester Maddox on your bedroom wall? You can cite as many historical references you want to validate your psychosis, but it doesn't change a thing.

the larger issues still arise[/B]

Yes it does. Yet, you're to scared to address it... and it has nothing to do with the fact that I'm a "lib" either.
 
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D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III

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Then you obviously haven't been paying attention.



Yet, McVeigh, Reid and Kaczynski (all terrorists as you declared) were tried AS CRIMINALS in a court of law like everyone else who commits a crime. Did you somehow ignore this fact? McVeigh & Kaczynski's acts of terrorism were successful in injuring AND killing innocent people. Abdulmutallab didn't kill anyone, even if his initial intent was to do so. Yet he's the one that needs to be denied the same criminal rights as the other three? By all means, talk more moralistic nonsense about the past as you try to explain why it was perfectly fine for three other known terrorists to go through our court system but this particular one isn't?

And let me give you a hint... saying that "we're currently at war" isn't a substantial excuse. We were also at war when Reid was caught in 2002.



Attention all Conservatives!!! The "Founding Fathers" would like for you to stop poking at their dead corpses and move the hell on. :rolleyes:

I'm sick of these ridiculous arguments about preserving what a group of men thought back in the 1700s as if they, themselves, knew it all and didn't think what they created in the Constitution would not need to be reassessed and adjusted as the Nation moved forward. Why else would they write provisions that would allow any measure listed in the Constitution to be changed by issuing an amendment? It's a pathetic excuse, one that you've hid behind way too many times. You use this excuse as much as a religious zealot uses the King James Bible to deflect issues surrounding social inequality... just like a pro-lifer hiding behind the picture of a baby to avoid talking about sensitive issues regarding abortion. If the Constitution was a shield, it would have been destroyed to bits decades ago... or at least after the birthers were done exploiting it. :rolleyes:



I don't deny history. I just don't yearn to live like it's 1788, nor do I want our country to regress to such an antiquated way of life that doesn't take into consideration any kind of progressive growth towards diversity and social justice.



So wait... when liberals were comparing the current War in Iraq to Vietnam you wanted to call them crazy. But now, you want to draw parallels with a wannabe terrorist with explosives in his panties, who got cold feet about bombing a plane, to the plights our Nation experienced during World War II? Can you make another inane and completely over exaggerated statement?



So sayeth Judge NickySixxy... :rolleyes:



Out of all of the unbelievable lines of equivocated bullshit you've let spew out of your brain, this one takes the cake. First off, more people in America are actually FOR the Death Penalty. It's been that way since the mid 60s and not a single thing has changed. So much for portraying people in this country as "too delicate" to handle volatile matters. http://sentencing.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451574769e20120a5e48900970b-pi

And we still use the same judicial procedure that was created back in the 1700s. The only difference now is that we have a more elaborate system in place that helps to prevent people from rushing to rash judgements just to satisfy their sadistic need to beat up on the boogeyman.

No wonder people like labeling you 666. :rolleyes:



There isn't a need for it. Your own insecurities about our Nation, our Government and how it conducts things tell you that you do. Grow a backbone, or at least a set of balls.



Because deep down, it's fueled by an enormous sense of paranoia, bigotry and institutionalized racism. That screams such extreme levels of bullshit that I simply will not tolerate from any person who claims to be an adult. How old are you again? Does your calendar say 2010 or do you still have a picture of Lester Maddox on your bedroom wall? You can cite as many historical references you want to validate your psychosis, but it doesn't change a thing.



Yes it does. Yet, you're to scared to address it... and it has nothing to do with the fact that I'm a "lib" either.


the unforunate thing is if we were stil using the same judical sysyem fromthe 1700's there would be a lot less crime and money tied up in litigation, prisons etc. The good ol days, you have a problem with someone you settle it yourselves.

getting back the topic these are war criminals and should be handled as such. I know everuyones view of war is distorted because weve pussie footed around with iraq and afghanasstan. I love to hear you when WWII was going on. if you won't listen you have to feel.
 

DadsAreUs

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Is there any particular reason that we should give an Al Queda operative the same rights as a U.S. citizen?

This lunatic just tried to blow up 300 innocent people on an airplane.

Why shouldn't we waterboard Abdulmutallab? The ticking time bomb scenario is here

So he brings in a high dollar attorney and exercises his newfound 'right to remain silent.' This murderous loon was singing like a bird before our new liberal policy hand-delivered Perry Mason to his defense and he turned into a clam.

And right at the critical brink in which he probably would have devulged pertinent information which could aid in preventing the future attacks that he alluded to upon capture.

It just seems ridiculous.

Question: Did trying Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, in the exact same arena cost any lives?

The word is that significant amounts of actionable intelligence are being extracted from this suspect. And the attack was witnessed by hundreds and videotaped. If either/neither of these things were not true the government would probably be taking a different approach. Even among those held in Gitmo, some are being tried in US criminal courts, others in tribunals. The decision of which approach to take is made on a case by case basis, weighing many factors. In a high profile, slam dunk case like this one, it makes sense to try him in a criminal court. It is a world wide advertisement for our open system of government and there really is no significant downside. Also, as Stephen Colbert said, he already blew his nuts off. What would we attach the electrodes to?

In the case of KSM, similar issues were weighed and it was decided the case was sufficiently strong to bring him to justice in the American courts. If there were any thought that a not guilty verdict were a real possibility, he would have faced a military tribunal. And frankly, i would imagine the streets of New York will be filled with modern day Jack Rubys just waiting to see if he gets off.
 

B_starinvestor

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Question: Did trying Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, in the exact same arena cost any lives?

The word is that significant amounts of actionable intelligence are being extracted from this suspect. And the attack was witnessed by hundreds and videotaped. If either/neither of these things were not true the government would probably be taking a different approach. Even among those held in Gitmo, some are being tried in US criminal courts, others in tribunals. The decision of which approach to take is made on a case by case basis, weighing many factors. In a high profile, slam dunk case like this one, it makes sense to try him in a criminal court. It is a world wide advertisement for our open system of government and there really is no significant downside. Also, as Stephen Colbert said, he already blew his nuts off. What would we attach the electrodes to?

In the case of KSM, similar issues were weighed and it was decided the case was sufficiently strong to bring him to justice in the American courts. If there were any thought that a not guilty verdict were a real possibility, he would have faced a military tribunal. And frankly, i would imagine the streets of New York will be filled with modern day Jack Rubys just waiting to see if he gets off.

Good post, grasso.
 

B_Nick4444

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Yet, McVeigh, Reid and Kaczynski (all terrorists as you declared) were tried AS CRIMINALS in a court of law like everyone else who commits a crime. Did you somehow ignore this fact? McVeigh & Kaczynski's acts of terrorism were successful in injuring AND killing innocent people. Abdulmutallab didn't kill anyone, even if his initial intent was to do so. Yet he's the one that needs to be denied the same criminal rights as the other three? By all means, talk more moralistic nonsense about the past as you try to explain why it was perfectly fine for three other known terrorists to go through our court system but this particular one isn't?

what may or may not have happened in a particular case or set of cases is not relevant to the larger issues

And let me give you a hint... saying that "we're currently at war" isn't a substantial excuse. We were also at war when Reid was caught in 2002.

see above

Attention all Conservatives!!! The "Founding Fathers" would like for you to stop poking at their dead corpses and move the hell on. :rolleyes:

I'm sick of these ridiculous arguments about preserving what a group of men thought back in the 1700s as if they, themselves, knew it all and didn't think what they created in the Constitution would not need to be reassessed and adjusted as the Nation moved forward. Why else would they write provisions that would allow any measure listed in the Constitution to be changed by issuing an amendment? It's a pathetic excuse, one that you've hid behind way too many times. You use this excuse as much as a religious zealot uses the King James Bible to deflect issues surrounding social inequality... just like a pro-lifer hiding behind the picture of a baby to avoid talking about sensitive issues regarding abortion. If the Constitution was a shield, it would have been destroyed to bits decades ago... or at least after the birthers were done exploiting it. :rolleyes:

then you agree! --it is entirely possible to argue that the Bill of Rights protections should not be extended to this particular class of persons?

I don't deny history. I just don't yearn to live like it's 1788, nor do I want our country to regress to such an antiquated way of life that doesn't take into consideration any kind of progressive growth towards diversity and social justice.

"progressive growth towards diversity and social justice" -- all buzzwords derived from leftist Marxist ideology; but again, you are arguing, though you may not realize it, for different sets of laws and different applications based on ascribed, categorical, group affiliations and identities to achieve this "social justice", which is contrary to the Bill of Rights, which focuses on individuals ... so to argue for "progressive social justice" is to argue against laws predicated on treatment of individuals as individuals, but rather to treat them as "categories" or objects that are properly treated as members of a set, a category ... how does this argue against what I was saying? it can actually agree with the propositions I put forth ...

So wait... when liberals were comparing the current War in Iraq to Vietnam you wanted to call them crazy. But now, you want to draw parallels with a wannabe terrorist with explosives in his panties, who got cold feet about bombing a plane, to the plights our Nation experienced during World War II? Can you make another inane and completely over exaggerated statement?

the only comparison was to the situation that resulted in the creation of laws and judicial proceedings without substantial precedence, much as terrorism presents us with dilemmas not comprehended by our existing laws, or Bill of Rights

So sayeth Judge NickySixxy... :rolleyes:



Out of all of the unbelievable lines of equivocated bullshit you've let spew out of your brain, this one takes the cake. First off, more people in America are actually FOR the Death Penalty. It's been that way since the mid 60s and not a single thing has changed. So much for portraying people in this country as "too delicate" to handle volatile matters. http://sentencing.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451574769e20120a5e48900970b-pi

yes, the American electorate would have approved of execution, but only after having seen the process of a trial

again, they would only have approved, if there had been a trial; hence, the spectacle of the Nuremberg Trials, based on laws and proceedings that had no real precedent (simple prep school history)

a new situation, a new set of laws and procedures to address it -- exactly what terrorism presents, and requires


And we still use the same judicial procedure that was created back in the 1700s. The only difference now is that we have a more elaborate system in place that helps to prevent people from rushing to rash judgements just to satisfy their sadistic need to beat up on the boogeyman.

No wonder people like labeling you 666. :rolleyes:



There isn't a need for it. Your own insecurities about our Nation, our Government and how it conducts things tell you that you do. Grow a backbone, or at least a set of balls.



Because deep down, it's fueled by an enormous sense of paranoia, bigotry and institutionalized racism. That screams such extreme levels of bullshit that I simply will not tolerate from any person who claims to be an adult. How old are you again? Does your calendar say 2010 or do you still have a picture of Lester Maddox on your bedroom wall? You can cite as many historical references you want to validate your psychosis, but it doesn't change a thing.



Yes it does. Yet, you're to scared to address it... and it has nothing to do with the fact that I'm a "lib" either.

for the rest, read MisterGrasso's post ... and THINK!
 
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