Great Article on Men and Marriage

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by javyn, May 12, 2009.

  1. javyn

    javyn New Member

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    Since most of the arguments I get into here are regarding men and marriage, and why fewer and fewer men are willing to get married, I thought yall would appreciate this little article. Very well worded, and right on the money. I especially liked the part where it refutes the typical female perspective that men are just unwilling to grow up. It's far deeper than that, as this so eloquently states.

     
    #1 javyn, May 12, 2009
    Last edited: May 12, 2009
  2. B_Hung Jon

    B_Hung Jon New Member

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    I have mixed feelings about this article. While I understand the premise, I think men as human beings are more complicated than "if I can get good sex", then I want to get married. To me the biggest issue women talk about concerning men is that we aren't aware of our own feelings, which causes us to never really get emotionally involved with a marriage partner or even begin to understand her. If we don't know how to love and care for a woman, how do we ever expect her to somehow enjoy the relationship. While guys may be able to analyze a relationship, that's not the most important aspect of it. Relationships hopefully bring us the same things that they bring women: emotional and physical fulfillment, sharing common interests as good friends, sharing the responsibility and commitment of having children, having an understanding and caring mate to help and support us. To me these are the aspects of a satisfying relationship and are worth more than all the columns of positive and negative analysis.
     
  3. NEWREBA

    NEWREBA New Member

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    You're a sexy and smart boy Jon:tongue:
     
  4. Ed69

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    "The men who are resisting being married are cutting themselves off from all this—and women should ask themselves why this is the case, without resorting to the “men are just refusing to grow up” bull. They’re not refusing to grow up: this is the reaction to the constant belittlement and the infantilizing treatment they’ve been exposed to all their lives. "

    This is why I walked away from 4 women and my mother and I have limited contact.I've had 18 wonderfull years with my wife,because we respect one another as human beings.
    The rest of the article I'm not real sure about.I do know I don't keep a running tally of the good,bad and ugly.
     
  5. cbrmale

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    After 23 years of happy marriage, I agree with the premise of the article. In the generation before mine, the only way to get sex and companionship was through marriage. In my generation this changed, but we tended to get married through habit, although I was different. I didn't find a woman who I was interested in sharing my life with, per the article, for quite a while. And when I did in the strangest of circumstances, we got married. Until then I had casual affairs, relationships, sex and all I wanted. My now wife was a liberated woman when I met her, but she was also from a different culture, and she has never tried to rule me, hound me, nag me or deny me sex. She's my best friend.

    I agree with the premise of feminism, and a liberated woman is a much better life-partner than the housewives of my mother's generation. But what modern women do need to understand is that the power of equality comes with the responsibility to use that power wisely. And my observation is that too often it isn't being used wisely. Men may not analyse why they don't want to marry the woman they are with, or why they break up and look for someone else, but in hindsight I worked out what my problem was when I was younger, and it was pretty much as summed up in the article.
     
  6. B_Bonky

    B_Bonky New Member

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    The essay goes from pretty good to a standard whining exercise about how shitty it is for men these days. Whatever. If you want to get married, do so. If you don't, don't. I don't.

    But don't expect shit to change any time soon just because you're sitting around whining about it.

    Marriage eventually ends up sucking for a very large percentage of people who enter into it. Always has, always will. In fact, I read recently that divorce is the largest wealth-destroyer known to man. And on average it destroys the wealth of women moreso than men. Not much more, but statistically so.

    I'm not the marrying type, so maybe my opinion is skewed. I'm cashing in on all the liberated women that are out there ;) If I really really wanted to get married but felt it too risky, then my opinion might be different. But there are always prenups. If done right, they will be upheld in court.

    "this is the reaction to the constant belittlement and the infantilizing treatment they’ve been exposed to all their lives." Says more about the author than men in general.... sounds like a pansy to me.
     
  7. greatdickismydrug

    greatdickismydrug New Member

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  8. B_certainrestriction

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    I really hate all this "accept gay people, their lifestyle, and their interaction with you sexually, or else" mentality. They say "why cant people just leave us be, and give us our rights" but factually, there is a MASSIVE gay population that looks to stand where a straight man stands to see if they can pull a straight person. Then their only defense is that "well if he wanted me he wasnt straight anyhow"

    You can go in chat room after chat room, message board after message board and you will see gay males playing like women to get pics from the straight. ANYONE that denies that reality is full of crap and on an agenda.

    If the gay populous merely wants to be left alone and NOT influence others... why is there lesbi gay clubs in high schools? why did the gay people try to make a highschool JUST for gay people, and when rejected...they said they will try again? Gay supporters claim that it is just for "support"... but do you know how many groups get harassed in HIGH SCHOOL? Maybe there should be a fat people highschool, or an Ugly person highschool...

    The fact that lesbi gay clubs in highschool are started by gay males who are NON board members who go from school to school to set them up shows a clear agenda. Such clubs never even go through the normal means to set them up, they do so without the votes of the board, nor parental involvement.
    Their defense? "are you afraid your son is gay?" and then they try to deviate the conversation to THAT instead of their intent in the first place.... WHICH SHOULD BE... why the hell are they making a social sex club (which is what that is) in a high school, where teens are BY SCIENCE..easy to influence...hence legal limits on sex with them till 18.


    The gay people have a clear issue with attempting to stand where they know the room is straight...

    Like the miss america thing... that guy asking the question is a known gay activist...CLEARLY looking to be in that position JUST to ask such a question like he did... to influence the listeners of what HE THOUGHT WAS GONNA BE a pro gay marriage issue....

    The woman didnt bring up religion, and said she was NOT pro gay marriage, and the audience CHEERED her. The gay man who asked the question is on Youtube calling her BITCH and all this...and saying how that was the first time a contestant got boo'ed...which she clearly did not.. and he said she brought up religion, which she did not.....

    IF THAT isnt clear and obvious evidence of the agenda, what is? THAT man after his gay tirade on youtube should have NEVER been a judge in the first place... THAT makes me feel like their next thing is to see if they can fill the judge ranks so as to allow a MALE that has had surgery to look female, as a contestant.. right now the rules say you cannot do that, but the gays will SOON MAKE THAT PITCH...Mark my words.


    And regarding gay marriage, this is not about Hate for gays, or whatever..this is about their CLEAR intent to not only have you, the straight person, ACCEPT their behavior, but they want you to actually ENDORSE it...AND PROMOTE it.

    The truth? The logic gays use for 2 males to marry, can be used to say 2 swinger couples should marry...Or a man and 5 women, or a woman and 5 men. Or a american and an illegal who paid him to marry for citizenship.

    GAYS will counter, "well we still want One on One"...but you cannot have your cake and eat it too..the concept of One person to one person is NOT secular but religious. Because the USA is christian based (which is the law of Jesus, One to one) we marry as we do..BUT THE FLAW IS... he didnt say One person to one person, he said One Man and One Woman...

    So Any who respnd, dont try that crap either.

    Much of their behavior is based on the false assumption that they are Born gay. NO SCIENCE HAS EVER PROVEN THAT AT ALL..AND NO I AM NOT A SCIENTISTS AND NEITHER DO I HAVE TO BE TO SAY THAT (so dont try that response either)....

    In order for a theory to be proven fact, the person conducting must list his findings and how he got them, And it has to be proven from another non bias source who can find the equal result....NO STUDY HAS EVER BEEN DUPLICATED TO FIND MATCHING RESULTS OF ANY GAY STUDY EVER DONE......so the pro gay media has said, "study proves men are born gay" after the first man finds what he finds...the bad part...many studies are done by gay people themselves!!! ONE even tried to show porn to TEENAGERS in college and they monitored their penis (monitors on the penis for ANY blood flow showing arousal) and they flashed Straight and gay porn, and their conclusion?

    TEEN STRAIGHT MALES ARE TURNED ON BY GAY PORN.....And THATS what the media printed...HOW FREAKIN SCIENTIFIC WAS THAT SHIT?!?!

    I have studied Many of the gay studies "proving" biological homosexuality for a paper I did. And it was clearl as day, the intent of this group.

    In 1970s the gays protested like Lobyists to the APA(American Psych Association) to have them STOP calling gay behavior an abnormality...WHY ws that so key? because if they could uproot that, then they could walk freely in other areas to Push their business card in straight areas.... Like a sex addict or something. Like a child molester trying to use logic to place himself by youths.

    in the 70s, a influential member of the APA was himself gay. And LO AND BEHOLD...the apa caved in and voted by narrow margin that gays were normal, resulting after a PROTEST raid of their meeting by gay activists.. it was not SCIENCE AT ALL... there were no previous studies to uproot the previous logic... only stuff like "the therapy to change us only hurts the person" which ALSO was not factual when looked closely. But regardless... It DEFINITELY wasnt science. But a lot of "science" certainly followed didnt it?


    Lastly, regarding Homosexual behavior and molestation (NO STUDY HAS EVER BEEN DONE REGARDING THAT...I wonder why?)

    THIS is a topic that gay males REALLY REALLY hate bringing up.. I wonder why?

    If you ask a group of males who are "bottoms" and exclusively gay... certain questions... the answers will suprise most, not me.

    In my paper, i interviewed 25 gay males (a small number? the publicized studies boast an average of only 1000 or so...and then use their findings to imply them on millions)

    Here are a couple of the questions...

    How old were you the VERY FIRST TIME YOU HAD ANY HOMOSEXUAL CONTACT... including Kissing, touching, Video or Magazine, in what you would call sexual in nature?

    ALL of them said ages before 10 years old.

    Question: Did the first homosexual act start with actions on YOUR part or the other parrty..this would include the conversation requesting the act.

    ALL 25...The OTHER PERSON CAME TO THEM

    Question: How old was the other person that you had you FIRST homosexual encounter or conversation leading to homosexual behavior?

    ALL 25 of them... The person was at least 3 years older...A HUGE difference in youthful years and development.


    Yet MOST of them saw where I was headed and quickly added "But I WANTED IT to happen though"

    Yeah.........Ok.
     
  9. hung

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    The topic originator presented an interesting article for all of us to read.

    Now for my spin.

    When a couple determines that they need to marry a whole new aspect of their lives engulfs them. There is a whole industry devoted to "Having the Perfect Wedding."

    Books have been written, magazines published and Wedding Consultants know all the tried and true methods for a perfect wedding day. The dream must become reality. In far too many cases unavailable "funds" are expended at the expense of a decent future.

    Couples become engaged and are ready to marry, but in steps a plethora of organizations, people and even Mothers to say that you need to get the perfect venue for the wedding and they the reception. This often requires waiting a year, and in some cases even more.

    Now the wedding day is history, the couple has experienced the perfect wedding event, the perfect reception and the perfect honeymoon.

    Then life become real once again. Mr. Groom and Mrs. Bride are not perfect. Each may have some flaws that have not yet been exposed or identified. Then the difficult aspect of real life enters into the situation. In the quest for the perfect everything, the couple now finally realizes that life as a couple will never be perfect, although they have been misled to belief that it will be so.

    So what happens next. I think we all know the answer.

    The quest for perfection has driven us all over the edge and we have expectations that are not normal. Not normal a hundred years ago, not normal now and not even normal in our futures.

    Deal with it!!!!!!
     
    #9 hung, May 13, 2009
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  10. javyn

    javyn New Member

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    Whining? The article doesn't whine at all, but tries to offer an explanation. To me, rather than whining, it is showing how men are pushing back and empowering themselves by simply refusing to play the marriage game. Definitely not a cause for whining, but eye opening shedding light on trend that has well been established with young, single men.
     
  11. Steve26

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    This "article" strikes me as one person's opinion masquerading as The Truth. I've been married since 2002, happily for the most part, and while parts of this piece ring true for me, on balance I don't buy it.

    I'd say there are at least as many opinions on marriage as there are marriages. It's disingenuous, to say the least, to try to paint them all with such a broad brush.

    This sentence jumped out at me in particular: "For every blissful couple in the ads, there are literally millions for whom a relationship is not a joy, but a wearisome chore."

    Does anyone seriously believe that for every happy couple there are "literally millions" of miserable ones? This would mean there might be, at most, 100 truly happy couples in the U.S. Were that the case, marriage would have died out long ago.

    Steve
     
  12. javyn

    javyn New Member

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    It is just one opinion, worth no more or less than your own. Still, just because you are happy in your marriage doesn't mean it's like that for everyone, and statistically speaking, the trend of young men refusing to get married has been well established for a while now. That is fact.

    The opinion in that article attempts to explain that fact. That's all. An opinion I find quite valid. I for one, would never, ever, risk ruining my life financially and socially by getting married. The fact that women are constantly pushing men to get married sooner rather than later should raise red flags in itself.

    I like this article because it shows that men still do have power in relationships, we have the ultimate power. The power to analyze our relationships logically rather than emotionally, and the power to ultimately walk away based on a cold, hard calculation. Something women generally do not do in this instance.

    And that ability we have as men REALLY seems to rub women (and many men themselves) the wrong way. I guess they find it threatening, which they should. Men seem to be slowly waking up to the fact women use sex against us to get what they want, and more and more of us are starting think with the big head rather than the small head. Those of you who took that article to mean that all men base their decisions on is sex obviously didn't understand what you were reading.

    edit: Also, I know that article tends to paint very broad strokes. I know quite well that not all women, probably not even most women, are as vindictive in a divorce as that claims...but guess what...that is the common perception men have these days regarding marriage, and women, and society at large have done little if anything to combat that perception, in actuality it seems they do their best to perpetuate it by pointing the finger at men in general calling us whiny, stupid, brutish, etc. So....the perception is well established, right or wrong, so deal with it I say.
     
    #12 javyn, May 13, 2009
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  13. B_Bonky

    B_Bonky New Member

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    The best definition I could find online for "whine" was: "to complain or protest in a childish manner or about trivial things."

    Let's look at parts of the original essay.

    This is a good start, not a whine. It's factual and straightforward.

    Uh oh, the writer is now starting to address women directly ("you"). Methinks he's going to go on a rant....

    Good up until the part about "confounding women." I think that women confound men just as much by ending relationships suddenly. I don't one sex is all that powerful vis-a-vis the other.

    ..Trying to define who can participate in the discussion. Good rhetorical move, but shows that he feels there are weaknesses in his argument.

    Complete whine in my book. Total illogical argument that greatly exaggerates any "problems" men might face. Yeah right, men are left with nothing at all in society. There's absolutely no flirting at school! Riiight. All flirts by men are punished as sexual harrassment! Riiight. Come on, silly.

    More exaggeration. It's not "forever," and the only reason the state "enthusiastically" supports it is so the state itself doesn't have to bring up a bunch of illegitimate kids. And I doubt that "most" women accuse their ex-husbands of violence.

    Any time you have "men are [x]" and "women are [y]" it's overbroad.

    While I agree with much of this statement, the "absolute certainty" part annoys me. Overstatement.

    Doesn't help WHAT matters exactly? Helps MY matters :D I bang sexually liberated women left and right.

    Ok.

    mm, I don't know a whole lot of men who marry just for sex, quite honestly. Anybody who's dated more than a couple chicks knows that sex takes a major dive once you start hanging out with a girl a whole lot.

    "Hooks" indeed. Very childish. "Fulfilling themselves" in quotes, a subtle way of saying that the author looks down upon women doing so, at least through career or extra-marital ways.

    What does eharmony have to do with anything? For every one person in a toothpaste ad with great teeth, there are millions with cavities. Does that mean toothpaste is bad? No. This is just an illogical argument.

    "Hath wrought" indeed. Well we know the side that the author is on, don't we?

    Reiterates his rhetorical exclusion..

    Yet another "men like/do [x]." Overbroad.

    Opinion and anecdotal evidence.

    Weird flip.. ie "marriage would be great if it weren't for the damn women."

    Straw man -- not all women think this way.

    This seems like a VERY personal statement, and perhaps a clue to the whole piece. The author is stating that ALL MEN are constantly belittled and "infantilized" throughout their lives. My response: Whaddaya mean "we" white man? Sounds like he's been treated like a child his whole life, and had thus written a very childish essay on,.. well.. himself.

    I'm not saying it's not a fairly well written essay, and the author uses some mid-level rhetorical moves to advance his argument, but it's still a whine. :rolleyes:
     
  14. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    all I can say is WOW.......what a load of crap! My first gay experience was initiated by ME, I was not recruited, molested, forced etc......for the record, studies HAVE been done regarding pedophilia and it is Mosty men molesting girls.......What exactly do YOU think the Gay Agenda is?????There is so much Malarkey in this post I can't be bothered to refute it. It's almost as if you have never known a gay person personally. Reading your post made me feel sad for YOU. BTW, the USA is NOT a Christian nation.
     
  15. D_Humper E Bogart

    D_Humper E Bogart New Member

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    Pretty obsessed with killing Muslims in God's name though.

    Anyhow, although I will agree the article isn't the best written, I do agree with it. Shoot me in the face before I get married! I'm darkly pragmatic and I can't afford in my stage of my life to be shackled down and psychologically, financially and perhaps sexually enslaved. People who find soulmates, well good for them, but I am not going to waste my time looking when the most important person in my life (myself) already exists.
     
  16. B_Bonky

    B_Bonky New Member

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    don't feed the trolls guys
     
  17. cbrmale

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    This is true in the majority, but like all statistics do not take the majority for all. For a significant minority of couples, romantic love grows and swells over the decades, not the months or years. I know this because it has happened to me in my marriage, but I also know of others in the same situation as us.

    If all the ingredients are there in terms of romance, companionship and sex, then love lasts. For people like myself, the chase was worth it, although I was VERY selective about the woman I was prepared to marry
     
  18. D_Humper E Bogart

    D_Humper E Bogart New Member

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    I hope you aren't referring to ME!

    (Check my postcount, and date of first signing on). :p
     
  19. B_Bonky

    B_Bonky New Member

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    no, the other guy
     
  20. D_Humper E Bogart

    D_Humper E Bogart New Member

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    Hey, sorry to be so mean, mister "guy with bouncing pig avatar." ;-)

    You have sussed the entire forum in your sig it seems!
     
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