Grenfell tower

[798686]

You would be wrong.

How so?

Show me, prove to me that you're more than a protest voter.

 

[798686]

Show me, prove to me that the BBC exhibited hysteria.

I've already pointed you in the direction of a relevant interview.

View it.

 

[rbkwp]

nothing to do with the topic but liktly to stimulate thought/amalysis/negativity

assocuation,and thinking outside the square that we are not supposed/encouraged to enterrtain according to some
we havent overly progressed sincethe Roman days,when STUPID HUMAN errors are made like Grenfell, in 2017

Why modern mortar crumbles, but Roman concrete lasts millennia

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/07/why-modern-mortar-crumbles-roman-concrete-lasts-millennia

 

[Chrysippus]

How so?
Show me, prove to me that you're more than a protest voter.

Not worth my time, bad assertion on your part to begin with.

 

[798686]

Not worth my time, bad assertion on your part to begin with.

Ohh, I see.

Well, likewise with your demand for proof of BBC hysteria.

 

[dandelion]

as you well know the so called dementia tax was scrapped

It hasnt been scrapped at all. They have said they will consult on it. Which is exactly what they said before the election. They plan to consult and then still bring it in. If brexit goes ahead, they will have to because of the recession it is likely to cause.

Grenfell Tower has become a cause celebre to the likes of you and the Corbynistras,

By that, you mean the majority of the nation under 45, because those ARE the corbynistas you are describing? Interestingly also a pretty even mix across all social classes in that age group.

The government has now accepted that Kensington council Behaved badly after the fire. The wider question is a moral one of whether anyone should have been living in such sub standard housing. And if you visit Kensington, then the standard of housing enjoyed by others is very obviously better indeed.

 

[Chrysippus]

Ohh, I see.

Well, likewise with your demand for proof of BBC hysteria.

which you couldn't produce...

 

[798686]

which you couldn't produce...

Lmao, oh dude - you're such a let-down.

 

[Chrysippus]

Lmao, oh dude - you're such a let-down.

and you are a fraud.

 

[southeastone]

The wider question is a moral one of whether anyone should have been living in such sub standard housing. And if you visit Kensington, then the standard of housing enjoyed by others is very obviously better indeed.

By "sub standard" do you mean only so much as the cladding or are you saying the "poor " live in these "slums" while the rich live in the £2000 a month luxury flats in the same block?

 

[798686]

and you are a fraud.

I am?

Awwww.

 

[798686]

By "sub standard" do you mean only so much as the cladding or are you saying the "poor " live in these "slums" while the rich live in the £2000 a month luxury flats in the same block?

Weirdly enough, I read the Grenfell flats actually went for 2k per month.

Whether they were on Housing Benefit, or sublet or rented in full - they weren't exactly cheap.

I don't think anyone knew the extent of their fire unworthiness, and I'm not sure it's a simple case of 'putting the poor in dangerous housing'.

More a case of severe lack of rigour in terms of specifying the upgrades - to the point of negligence it would seem.

 

[southeastone]

Weirdly enough, I read the Grenfell flats actually went for 2k per month.

Whether they were on Housing Benefit, or sublet or rented in full - they weren't exactly cheap.

I don't think anyone knew the extent of their fire unworthiness, and I'm not sure it's a simple case of 'putting the poor in dangerous housing'.

More a case of severe lack of rigour in terms of specifying the upgrades - to the point of negligence it would seem.

Indeed and that's why the hijacking of the tragedy for political gain is so disgusting, these "slums" were actually really nice flats in a really nice area which had just had millions spent to make them even nicer.

http://www.standard.co.uk/Front/lon...ll-tower-flats-before-the-blaze-a3565416.html

 

[dandelion]

Indeed and that's why the hijacking of the tragedy for political gain is so disgusting, these "slums" were actually really nice flats in a really nice area which had just had millions spent to make them even nicer.

This is an intersting spin on the story, but at the very start I recall a news story saying the price of these flats was far below the price of an equivalent flat in the general housing around.

Here is an opinion poll on views about Grenfell. https://www.theguardian.com/politic...b0cddfab35e767#block-595b76dae4b0cddfab35e767

There result was that 26% thought it was wrong to blame politicians for what happened.

of those who felt blame should go to politicians, 28% thought that blame should go to the current government because of its austerity policies, and 33% thought blame should be shared by successive governments.

Interesting there is a wide consensus that politicians ARE to blame for what happened. 61% think the current government is wholly or partly to blame, which is a far more convincing result than the Brexit referendum. So is the government going to resign because it is the will of the people?

 

[chrisrobin]

It hasnt been scrapped at all. They have said they will consult on it. Which is exactly what they said before the election. They plan to consult and then still bring it in. If brexit goes ahead, they will have to because of the recession it is likely to cause.

By that, you mean the majority of the nation under 45, because those ARE the corbynistas you are describing? Interestingly also a pretty even mix across all social classes in that age group.

The government has now accepted that Kensington council Behaved badly after the fire. The wider question is a moral one of whether anyone should have been living in such sub standard housing. And if you visit Kensington, then the standard of housing enjoyed by others is very obviously better indeed.

A) how do you now which age group I belong to, your sweeping assertion is more dogma from the mouths of Momentum.

B) Blocks of flats are not built as slums but as a good way of providing accommodation , hopefully to those who will appreciate this. s, This block when built was well looked after for years, it was the incomers who relegated this block to the slum status. You cant expect those from other countries to have the same standards as from their backgrounds they had no idea of what pride in your surroundings stood for. I didn't matter that the council tried to keep up standards but as soon as they finished the place went downhill again.
Possibly some common knowledge might have backfired on the council, I don't know, but interestingly enough

Immigration checks on Grenfell fire victims will now be carried out, leaving survivors who need help at risk of deportation if they come forward., ministers confirmed anyone wanting help must register with Home Office officials and be subject to normal immigration rules after 12 months.

And quite rightly to as there are obviously there were many illegal immigrants - and these should be treated exactly as the law states. I expect the bleeding hearts brigade to leap in the air, scream U turn - a statement made in the heat of the moment before the full scale of the illegal immigrants living in Grenfell Towers became known. If they are truly running from an oppressive regime and have a legitimate reason for being allowed to remain that will follow, otherwise, fire or no fire, they should be deported.
One of the reason we are leaving the EU is so that we have the power to decide who comes and who goes.
Oh yes.

 

[dandelion]

One of the reason we are leaving the EU is so that we have the power to decide who comes and who goes.
Oh yes.

Well maybe we havnt even given article 50 notice yet. Seems there is a flaw in the legislation.

But we already have powers to deport illegal immigrants and leaving the EU makes no difference to that. We also have powers to deport criminals and always have. We even have powers to deport people who come her and fail to find work within a reasonable period. We have just never chosen to use these powers.

Regardless, the people think government is to blame for the Grenfell fire and it is very difficult to argue it is not.

 

[chrisrobin]

Well maybe we havnt even given article 50 notice yet. Seems there is a flaw in the legislation.

But we already have powers to deport illegal immigrants and leaving the EU makes no difference to that. We also have powers to deport criminals and always have Our jails have many in them we cannot return to their own EU countries
We even have powers to deport people who come her and fail to find work within a reasonable period.
Not if they are from the EU
We have just never chosen to use these powers.

Regardless, the people think government is to blame for the Grenfell fire and it is very difficult to argue it is not.

In so many ways you could well be right, If the Socialist governments hadn't been so lax about border controls in the first place, if the world hadn't listened to the wonderful Angela open borders Merkel (Austria planning to block its borders with Italy - Balkan Sates still with border controls within the EU) hoards arriving daily into Italy.
If
if
if
Frankly why not blame all governments for deaths from airplanes trains and cars, not to mention electricity gas and oil, and shipping, all these things promoted by world wide governments, surely governments world wide should take the blame for everything and individuals encouraged not to take decisions that could be taken by nanny states.
I suppose on the same score you would attach blame to your leader who will not stamp down on the anti sematic feelings that run through the top echelons of his party, and surely he can be blamed, on your reasoning, for any anti sematic behaviour.

 

[Chrysippus]

I suppose on the same score you would attach blame to your leader who will not stamp down on the anti sematic feelings that run through the top echelons of his party, and surely he can be blamed, on your reasoning, for any anti sematic behaviour.

WTF are you talking about?

 

[798686]

WTF are you talking about?

Most people's brains have this function where you can detect the actual word despite any minor spelling mistakes.

You don't have this ability, I'm guessing?

 

[dandelion]

Here is an opinion poll on views about Grenfell. https://www.theguardian.com/politic...b0cddfab35e767#block-595b76dae4b0cddfab35e767

There result was that 26% thought it was wrong to blame politicians for what happened.

of those who felt blame should go to politicians, 28% thought that blame should go to the current government because of its austerity policies, and 33% thought blame should be shared by successive governments.

Interesting there is a wide consensus that politicians ARE to blame for what happened. 61% think the current government is wholly or partly to blame, which is a far more convincing result than the Brexit referendum. So is the government going to resign because it is the will of the people?