Guitar players?

[Hotrocker]

Hotrocker, I appreciate how time and time again you try to come up with a reason that my setup sounds bad, but you're just wrong. You sound like all the kids in my high school that used to get into pissy arguments with me because they knew I owned better stuff and used it better.

I guess you can private message me, and ask for some recordings. This is my job brother. I do this for a living. Music Mans? Jacksons? Those are jokes in my world. The EVH models are out of production because they're pieces of shit and no one wanted to buy them. Who of any consequences uses Jacksons?

Randy Rhoads? The fucker's dead, and his tone is actually CALLED one of the worst tones in the history of guitar. If you think I'm blowing smoke, just type that in on the net. It's like you don't know what bad tone is. I mean, you obviously don't. Why would you be saying stupid shit like this if you did?

Argue it up from here on out, but everytime I've come back to see your response, it's devoid of information, reason, and accuracy.

I want to make a deal though. PM me. Let's get on a guitar forum. If we make a thread and everyone agrees with you about your tone preferences, I will start another thread here saying how much of an asshole I was, and I'll insult my guitar overtly.

Vice versa if they call you a moron, which is what I'm counting on anyway. When I showed my friend your responses to my posts, he just laughed. Real musicians aren't going to let people who have been playing for 2 or 3 years explain how to reach good tone with a 50 watt solid-state combo amp and a flat-neck Ibanez. They don't know how.

And drop your amplifier argument. I honestly don't know what the hell you're talking about when you try to talk about amps. You're not making any sense telling me all this mindless gibberish about recording with "2x12", as if the number of speakers you have matters when sticking a microphone on it.

On another note, your EVH history is also false.

The Frankenstrat was a Charvel body AND neck when first created. The 3 pickups were ripped out and he put a humbucker in the bridge. Of course it's going to sound different from a Stratocaster. Charvel makes these original models (NOT THE FRANKEN-REISSUE) for $1,300 retail. And he didn't finish the Franken for $150. The body alone had cost him $200. The neck was rumored to be a piece of leftover from his friend's custom shop, and was either given to him with a Charvel decal, or he put it on there himself with their approval.

And, Grand Master hotrocker, you also forgot to mention than when EVH was pushing his amps past their power voltage during shows, he regularly blew them up and melted his capacitors. That is when he, and Carlos Santana, came up with the idea for the rectified circuit board. EVH also turned his amplifiers up to 10, which drained his tubes considerably but added to their burst. Your little hero Steven Vai will normally only throw his amp on 2 or 3 and mic it out the PA. Not every shredder does or has to do what EVH did, and it's mostly because the guy was an idiot with electronics. He'd be the first to tell you that. He once ruined a Gibson ES-335 because he tried to scallop the fretboard and didn't know what he was doing. He also used to try to install Bigsby systems on his Les Pauls and would destroy the bow of the beck constantly. Yes, EVH did play Les Pauls, before I hear any retarded rebuttals to that. He never knew what he was doing. It was all trial and error. The amp mod was a mistake, partly because it didn't work correctly, partly because it was obvious what extra power would do when it couldn't be handled.

Scallop an ES-335? Come on, now.

He biased his amps later in life. The tone you want, was EL84 power tubes in his original "modified" Marshalls, with British ECC83 preamp tubes. (known as 12ax7 in US.) This is standard today. There IS no reaching EVH's tone anymore because we've all got it. His claim to fame is the rectifier, basically. These amps are all over the place, and I can't begin to guess why you think it's so hard to sound like him. He doesn't even play his old guitars anymore. He often uses Peavey Wolfgangs live, even still, when I saw him in concert 2 years ago. His new amplifier, the 5150 III is absolutely unrelated to any circuitry setup he's had before (note: 6V6 tubes are the new craze for him), and the result is just another mediocre-sounding rock tone from the 2000's.

So once again, whatever you're smoking that makes you think you can just go get all this shit that was in production in 1975-1978 when he was building it, pass me that shit. This is the same old boring shit I see in Guitar World. You guys need to go look up some new players. Either that or that dude that posted stuff about Kotzen and Howe needs to come back in this thread and drown you out.

Then again, what do I know right? This is only my occupation, and everything I say about it is "babble."

Yeah, you're just being a dick now... and you're ranting. Even if you're right about all of that, what have you proven? You're just arguing your head off on a big dick site to a person you know nothing about regarding guitar theory and tone. Somebody give this man a t- shirt because clearly, he's a winner! I'm talking about tone being in someone's fingers as well as the guitar and you start talking about how all of your gear is technically and tonally superior to all of our modest setups. Well congratulations to you, ass.

Most of your rebuttals were biased as hell, sir. Where you excel in guitar tone super- mastery and theory masterclass, you lack in tact and intelligent conversation.

Plain and simply, you don't need a $5000 guitar and equally- priced gear setup to get a good tone. You're full of shit if you say otherwise. And also, you said "EVH also turned his amplifiers up to 10, which drained his tubes considerably but added to their burst. Your little hero Steven Vai will normally only throw his amp on 2 or 3 and mic it out the PA." Look what I had already said earlier before you started bitching about that: "And as for recording, what good is a half- stack or a full stack if you cant get its tone without cranking it a good bit up? You can get a better tone out of a modeling tube amp like a Mark IV or a Blue Angel (both Mesas) on a lower power setting than you would with a stack. Mic both your speakers with condenser mics on the smaller amp and thats all you'd need." You said the same thing I had said, pal.

ampblaster, thank you for the input... but you need to take it down a notch with your attitude problem. You always need to be right, don't you?

 

[Skull Mason]

Frankenstrat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not sure why you are arguing that he paid at least 200 dollars for the "body alone", he paid less, but either way it was a piece of shit he threw together. I'm pretty sure it was $150 though. Wasn't anything near a multiple thousand dollar guitar, and he got great tone with it, from his fingers. I don't think there ever WAS a charvel sticker on it, so I don't know where you are getting that from.

There IS no reaching EVH's tone anymore because we've all got it. His claim to fame is the rectifier, basically. I do this for a living. Music Mans? Jacksons? Those are jokes in my world. The EVH models are out of production because they're pieces of shit and no one wanted to buy them

This is where you lose me, and some credibility as well. We've all got what? I haven't seen one man with that EVH tone. You throw around all this technical jargon like a dude trying to show off how daft and cunning he is at a cocktail party by rattling off names of people he thinks he knows, when no one really gives a shit. Care to elaborate on the above statement or should I just take that as is? I know dudes who have spent their lives trying to get that sound, and I have never heard any recording that matches it.

And the Music Mans are jokes? They are out of production because no one would buy them anymore? EVH left Ernie Ball for Peavey, so they couldn't sell them as the EVH Music Man, so it became the Ernie Ball Axis, SAME EXACT GUITAR. I think they just added a tone knob. So really they never went out of production, maybe I am missing something, because you would surely know this.

I am really just having trouble trying to figure out what your argument really is, I get lost between all the hip technical jargon, its like your reading out of an encyclopedia of music theory tech but not actually listening to it and I don't see where it is going? What stands out are these snide little comments about you possessing all this sick equipment that cost you 1,000s of bucks, and all your friends in high school got into arguments with you because you "had better stuff and knew how to use it better". I don't think I have ever heard a real, accomplished, musician who was secure with himself and his talents say shit like this. Tell me, did you earn money and pay for all that stuff yourself in high school, or did mommy buy it for you?

I'm not trying to be a dick. But it would be great if you could post just a couple general statements as to what you are trying to get across, without all the technical/elitist crap. For example, are you saying that everyone needs to have a 5,000 les paul, and if they don't, their tone sucks and they aren't as good as you? And just because its your "occupation", doesn't make you any more right or wrong than anyone else.

 

[66057]

I'm done here. If you go back and look at all the stuff you've said about guitar players and their equipment, more than half of it is either mistaken information or flat out lying to make you sound legitimate.

And hotrocker, you retard, I was EXPLICITLY talking about that amplifier comment. Go back and read what you've posted. You actually said that it doesn't matter if you use a 50watt solid state combo amp over a tube head couple with a 4x12" cab. I called bullshit on you, because you made a completely irrelevant comment about the number of speakers mattering. You said a "2x12" is the best for recording." That is what I said made no sense. It would be the amplifier, TYPE and SIZE of speakers, and microphone setup. You're like my fuckin' friend John. The douchebag used to argue with me for hours, saying his Hondo Les Paul copy out of a 65 watt Crate combo amp sounded just as good as my Paul through my rig setup. A "rig" is more than just a guitar and amplifier, Hotrocker. And you know what? I actually couldn't just say, "no it doesn't sound better." As soon as he plugs that shit in and lets it twang, I'm laughing my ass off. You are a John. You are just another guitar player who thinks Steve Vai is God, and that you're going to be the best shredder in the world, even though you don't know anything about equipment or playing. People like you love to make me look like an asshole, but I don't have to give a shit, because at the end of the day I'm recording for people, playing shows, and doing guitar tech.

But I'm just being a dick and an asshole to want to call you wrong.

What the fuck? How am I supposed to listen to all of your comments? They don't even make any sense. They're always misguided opinions or absolutely ridiculous claims. This is why I'm "getting pissy." You're calling me an asshole because I KNOW that only 12 year olds will own a setup that you call "awesome tone."

And Skull Mason, I've never given you shit on this site. You've got a problem with my "technical elitist crap?" Why don't you guys go put a little more effort into understanding why instruments sound the way they do, then maybe you can come back and here and call me full of shit. Stop whining. My guitar was $750 because I'm a smart buyer and know the right people. Just because you can't get/afford one is your problem. I've owned the guitar for 4 years and paid for it just like I paid for my amp, cab, rack, and effects. I own it, you don't so go cry. Mommy didn't buy it for me, but mommy sure as hell ain't getting the quarter-million payoff I'm expecting in 2030 for it. You both sound like a couple of jealous amateurs. But hey, you COULD sound as good as me if you went out and got some cool gear. Notice how you're the only one I've called a complete idiot so far, hotrocker. That's not an accident. YOU'RE the one who gave me shit about MY equipment, saying it had no difference on tone than your JEM and 50wat piece of shit. So both of you get the fuck off of my back. I didn't say anything until a couple of geniuses with cheap starter equipment started piping in about my LesPaul. You were pissy that it was a rare, good-sounding guitar, and you didn't want it to be better than your prized Ibanez JEM, boo-hoo. Does NOT mean you are correct because you don't own one. This is the classic cop-out for guitar players with bad gear and bad tone. "It sounds good to me."

Anything you rebutted about EVH is moot. All info came straight out of direct interviews, so suck a dick boys.

 

[psidom]

i love Rock'n'Roll. :kabong:

 

[Skull Mason]

Anything you rebutted about EVH is moot. All info came straight out of direct interviews, so suck a dick boys.

That is exactly where I got my info from as well. I've been aware of this information since I was 12. Everything I said can be cited, none of what you said can be. You don't have to read an interview to know that the AXIS is the same guitar as the EVH, and is still in production. And that the EVH models go for thousands on ebay or elsewhere. As smart as you think you sound sometimes you actually are wrong. Quarter million payoff in 2030, how old are you, seriously?

You shouldn't call me a jealous amateur dude. That is what is wrong with your attitude. I am the guitar player for one of the greatest DJs of all time, Mark James the 45 King. Ever hear "hard knock life" by jay-z, or "Stan" by eminem. That is who I play guitar for. So I am no amateur, and I get paid for what I do. While you are recording for people on pro tools in a basement, playing live shows in a pub, and being an assistant guitar tech I am playing for one of the most accomplished Djs in history and hanging out at Kid Capris house. I didn't want to mention it because I don't want to sound like a dick, but it is my occupation and I get paid for it to.

Even he says it- with all his experience and recording with musicians over the last 25 years- that the gear doesn't matter, a good player will make anything sound good, and a bad player will make anything sound like shit.

 

[66057]

*Sigh*

MusicMan® Instruments - Axis®

The AXIS and EVH models have different necks and fretboards Skull Mason. Then again, I assumed you knew this.

 

[D_golden parachute]

I have a guitar

I got frustrated a few years ago when I wasn't instantly playing like Jimi Hendrix

I think this summer I'm gunna pick it up and play lots

 

[Skull Mason]

*Sigh*

MusicMan® Instruments - Axis®

The AXIS and EVH models have different necks and fretboards Skull Mason. Then again, I assumed you knew this.

Go to the ernie ball forums and ask them what the difference is. They changed the neck scale slightly to prevent high e slippage. Same pick-ups, same woods, same unfinished neck. Peavey did the same thing with the wolfgangs when he left them, called the HP special. They have a guitar that is the exact same, maybe changed a spec, and call it something else. That doesn't change the fact that you believed they discontinued it because it was a shitty guitar and no one was buying it, which is dead wrong.

 

[B_AZBiGuy]

Anyone here play? Yep.
How long? About 15 years.
What do you like to play? Originals. Then funk, and metal.
Any stage experience? Yep. Used to play about a show a week, for awhile.
Studio experience? 3 CDs. (2 with my current band...[edit -- actually, I won't link to the website. Sorry. don't want to risk it.])

I'm a gear freak too, let me know what kind of equipment you've got.
I play bass, mostly -- a Schecter Diamond series 4 string running through a 500w Peavey TMAX with 2 10s and a 18, and a Line 6 POD Pro. Also got an old-ass Ibanez and a sweet 1976 Fender Jazz bass.

I have a few guitars, but mostly play with my Ovation acoustic.

But all that doesn't mean shit if you can't write a decent riff....

Avg... your cock equipment ain't so bad either...

 

[66057]

Go to the ernie ball forums and ask them what the difference is. They changed the neck scale slightly to prevent high e slippage. Same pick-ups, same woods, same unfinished neck. Peavey did the same thing with the wolfgangs when he left them, called the HP special. They have a guitar that is the exact same, maybe changed a spec, and call it something else. That doesn't change the fact that you believed they discontinued it because it was a shitty guitar and no one was buying it, which is dead wrong.

No, YOU'RE wrong. The EVH musicman is a completely different model than the Axis, AND it's discontinued. The Fender Standard Strat looks exactly like the Highway 61 Strat. This does NOT mean they are the same guitar. Jesus.

 

[Skull Mason]

The EVH Guitar Registry - Music Man Axis Super Sport Review

"The Axis by Ernie Ball Music Man (EBMM) is the same guitar as the original EBMM Van Halen (EVH) model with a few position changes of the volume know and pickup selector. The Axis was introduced when EVH decided to move to Peavey for his signature guitar model."

Can you understand that you are wrong, or is that impossible for you? How old are you, seriously?

 

[dannymawg]

Lessee... early 70s Slingerland 5 ply poplar/maple in Diamond Black wrap - two 13x13 racks, 16x16 floor, 24x14 kick

Two Slingerland eight-lug snares - one 14x8 maple in chrome wrap, one 14x4.5 chrome steel, one 70s Ludwig aluminum snare 14x6 (my secret weapon)

Sabian HHX crashes and ride, older Zildjian A hats

Coated Ambassadors for batter heads, clear Diplomats for bottoms

DW hardware

A stash of ProMark Ed Shaugnessy signature sticks in oak they don't make anymore-




OH... you guys are talking about guitars. The way you guys are going at it sounds like a redneck Chevy/Ford argument or something. "NO! my five-point-oh is faster!" lol :biggrin1:

Ampblaster, it's all good that you take pride in your stuff, but take a chill pill man. We get the idea now. Thanks for sharing.

Guitar tone is so fucking subjective that I'm really surprised there's any basis for an argument here.

 

[Hotrocker]

No, YOU'RE wrong. The EVH musicman is a completely different model than the Axis, AND it's discontinued. The Fender Standard Strat looks exactly like the Highway 61 Strat. This does NOT mean they are the same guitar. Jesus.

"No, YOU'RE wrong!" Lol, you big baby. Stop bitching about absolutely biased and ridiculous things like guitar tone. Almost everyone thinks their tone is great... thats whats beautiful about music (it all sounds different). g

Lessee... early 70s Slingerland 5 ply poplar/maple in Diamond Black wrap - two 13x13 racks, 16x16 floor, 24x14 kick

Two Slingerland eight-lug snares - one 14x8 maple in chrome wrap, one 14x4.5 chrome steel, one 70s Ludwig aluminum snare 14x6 (my secret weapon)

Sabian HHX crashes and ride, older Zildjian A hats

Coated Ambassadors for batter heads, clear Diplomats for bottoms

DW hardware

A stash of ProMark Ed Shaugnessy signature sticks in oak they don't make anymore-




OH... you guys are talking about guitars. The way you guys are going at it sounds like a redneck Chevy/Ford argument or something. "NO! my five-point-oh is faster!" lol :biggrin1:

Ampblaster, it's all good that you take pride in your stuff, but take a chill pill man. We get the idea now. Thanks for sharing.

Guitar tone is so fucking subjective that I'm really surprised there's any basis for an argument here.

Well said. And nice setup.

 

[66057]

Almost everyone thinks their tone is great... thats whats beautiful about music (it all sounds different).

That's your problem, retard.

 

[Hotrocker]

That's your problem, retard.

I'll just take the higher path...

at least you're not acting like a baby...

 

[faceking]

I transcribed a shit load of songs back in the USENET days... under a number of emails/identities (which I can prove), which hilariously, I still see on a number a spam/portal/crap websites... most were 80% correct, but I've yet see to most/any corrected....

and here I thought I was talking to about 12 or 14 ppl who really cared, and actually read alt.guitar.tab ....

Think 1993 version of the internet.

 

[faceking]

I transcribed a shit load of songs back in the USENET days... under a number of emails/identities (which I can prove), which hilariously, I still see on a number a spam/portal/crap websites... most were 80% correct, but I've yet see to most/any corrected....

and here I thought I was talking to about 12 or 14 ppl who really cared, and actually read alt.guitar.tab ....

Think 1993 version of the internet.

Oh, 1956 Fender... a few other more recent 70s/80s Fendahs.... 62 Les Paul.... '75 Contreras 1A Classical...and a buncha 'bangers' that I love like a bunch a rough n rowdy faithful hounds....

 

[66057]

I'm gonna have to come kill you and steal your equipment faceking.

But no offense, I hope we can still be friends.

 

[Hotrocker]

Gosh this site just brims over with eye candy...

http://www.jemsite.com/

http://www.jemsite.com/gallery.htm

http://www.jemsite.com/jcustom/index.htm

 

[Mickactual]

Well - I play bass. Does that count?
I also play a bt of geetar (and keys). I actually learned guitar before bass, but one day it dawned on me that my fingers (or maybe my brain) cannot grasp the concept of chords. I can't seem to do that holding down more than one string at a time thing. Thus I became a bass player.
To this day, when I play guitar, I can only play lead - not rhythm. Every once in a while I try to absorb someone's licks to convince myself I actually can play guitar. Right now, I'm trying to master Elliott Randall's lead on Steely Dan's "Reelin' In The Years".
As a bass player, I'm of the counter-melody bass playing style...ala Paul McCartney, Chris Squire, John Entwistle. I've always been enthralled by the tones of Rickenbacker basses - yet oddly, I've never owned one.
:shrug: