Gun control

Discussion in 'Politics' started by balsary, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. Eric_8

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2010
    Messages:
    3,573
    Likes Received:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Diego
    Don't get me wrong Sbat, I fully understand the point you're trying to make. I just don't buy it as an argument for why guns should be taken away from law abiding citizens.
     
  2. StormfrontFL

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    5,429
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,100
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Miami
    So why argue that people have the right to carry in Disney World? It is not a public area. It is a private enterprise. I'm not saying that you argued for this but several on your side of the issue did.
     
  3. sbat

    sbat New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Then we are in agreement about the need to take guns away from law abiding citizens. I just think there needs to be a licensing process more strenous than that of driving a car. Since it takes less effort to kill a person with a gun than a car. Especially if you're going to legalize conceal and carry.
     
  4. sbat

    sbat New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Terrible idea to carry in Disney World. Although, wait times for rides might dramatically decrease...
     
  5. Eric_8

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2010
    Messages:
    3,573
    Likes Received:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Diego
    No disagreement there. Though, I'd like to see that held up until Dems are willing to require ID to vote.

    To me, both concepts are different side of the same common sense coin. However, one is supposedly unconstitutional and other racist lol.
     
  6. redneckgymrat

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,504
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    Disney is a privately owned park, and thus private property. We each enter their parks, by their permission, and must follow their rules.

    If they choose to allow carry within their parks, that is their right. If they do not choose to allow carry within their parks, that is also their right. Their sandbox, their rules.

    If their policy allows me to carry within their parks, then the choice of *whether* or not to to arm myself becomes mine.

    Again, it's an issue of rights. I've been quite consistent in my position.
     
  7. StormfrontFL

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    5,429
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,100
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Miami
    As stated in my post you weren't the one arguing that you have the right to be armed in a theme park. A few others on the pro gun side were the ones stating that they feel their rights are being restricted because they aren't allowed to have guns on them when in Disney.
    Someone also went on about having guns with them when at work. Do you agree that if you work in a place where the boss doesn't allow smoking inside that you wouldn't smoke? What if the boss also didn't allow guns inside?
     
  8. Eric_8

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2010
    Messages:
    3,573
    Likes Received:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Diego
    Assuming it's a private entity, I'd have to imagine the response would be quite similar to the Disney scenario.
     
  9. Bardox

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,144
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    347
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    U.S.
    Just a side note. A person may have the right to "keep and bare arms" as a US citizen, but there is no "right" (citizen or not) to enter a theme park or any business really. They, however, do have the right to tell people to fuck off if they don't want someone on their land. Every business (public or private) has the right to refuse service as long as it isn't for race, gender, religion, nationality, sexual orientation, and/or disablity. "You want to carry a gun? Fine, but ya ain't gonna do it in here."
     
  10. Calboner

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    9,018
    Albums:
    5
    Likes Received:
    2,222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    Baring one's arms was not the issue.

    Nor are bear arms the issue.
     
  11. StormfrontFL

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    5,429
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,100
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Miami
    Exactly and most reasonable people understand this. There are, however, some on here who believe that they should be allowed to carry guns anywhere and everywhere.
     
  12. redneckgymrat

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,504
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas


    In the strictest sense, their rights *are* being restricted...but in a way that is consistent with personal property rights. "Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose."

    If a gun owner wants to carry his gun into a theme park, then we have to do our homework, search for a theme park that allows it, or petition them to allow it. I'm unaware of any that do, but being privately owned parks, those policies could change.


    Most places that do not allow smoking, do not allow smoking inside, or on the property. You are free to leave the building and congregate around the loading dock, or walk across the street, and you are usually allowed to have your smokes with you, or at least in your car in the parking lot.

    They do not stop the addicts from smoking. They merely say that within "my" building, you may not feed your addiction.

    Most gun owners who prefer to be armed in their car have similar allowances made...leaving the gun in the car, for instance. Despite being privately owned property, public spaces like parking lots tend to be handled as a "gray area" most of the time.
     
  13. StormfrontFL

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    5,429
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,100
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Miami

    There's no argument here. You, unlike a few on your side of the gun debate, are rational. The more outrageous pro gun advocates on here believe that their rights would supersede that of the owners of private establishments. You stated that guns are allowed in your church so if I visited your church I would put aside my feelings and accept that guns are all around me. If you visited my church and learned that we prefer that guns be left outside I assume you would abide by that restriction. The less rational on here would ignore the wishes of the congregation all the while screaming "Second Amendment. Done."
     
  14. redneckgymrat

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,504
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    There are a number on both sides who could be called rational, and more than a few who come across as completely irrational.

    Passion breeds emotional responses. and the emotional is inherently irrational.

    You seem extremely rational, and usually do. Thank you for recognizing the same, in me.

    Hopefully I've been a good representative of the pro-gun argument.

    Guns *might* be all around you. Or might not. That's the beauty of a right...you may choose to exercise it, or not, as you see fit. It's not something you're mandated to do.

    But I wasn't talking about my church. To my knowledge, my church has no policy for or against, so by default, with no stated policy one way or the other, guns would likely be allowed.

    There are a number of Cowboy Churches (Baptists with a western theme) in the area, though, that integrate shooting sports into after-church activities, like church picnics, Cowboy Action Shooting events, etc. They have a policy, clearly stated, that guns are not just allowed, but welcomed.

    If there's a sign or a clearly stated policy that guns are not allowed, then of course any responsible gun owner would disarm.

    Without such a sign, it's a toss-up. In California, I presume that social norms would lead one to disarm in a church, even without a sign. In Texas, the social pressure to do so would be considerably less, since we're more accepting of guns.
     
    #2154 redneckgymrat, Feb 17, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  15. sbat

    sbat New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Dude, political compromise is way easier than it's made to seem. I don't get the racist arguement in requiring ID to vote. You think you'd want people who have a basic level of intelligence or shit-togetherness to make decisions that affect our collective well-being...if education is biased towards white and wealthy, shouldn't we correct that by improving education for the rest rather than watering down our process for determining who runs the country?
     
  16. Drifterwood

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    15,417
    Likes Received:
    250
    Location:
    Europe and Asia
    A question for the gun toters - would you be happy if you visited Europe for a while and weren't allowed to have or carry weapons?
     
  17. Fuzzy_

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3,976
    Likes Received:
    426
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Wuziland
  18. Eric_8

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2010
    Messages:
    3,573
    Likes Received:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Diego
    No, because my guns are obviously extensions of my penis, so I would feel rather dickless (credit to BigBull) without them.

    Joking of course. Yes, I know that I could personally function without a firearm...can't speak for all the idiot Americans in the group though.
     
  19. redneckgymrat

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,504
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    Happy? No. Accepting? Yes. Your sandbox, your rules, no matter how stupid I believe them to be.

    Though, I would take great solace in the knowledge that I get to leave your state at the end of my visit. The best part of any vacation is when you arrive home, again.
     
  20. Joll

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    14,309
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    663
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cymru
    Can't believe this thread's still rumbling on!

    I think Oscar Pistorius may now rethink his attitude on the merit of having guns round the house...
     
Draft saved Draft deleted