Gun control

[sbat]

I live on a farm.

Ah, so farmers can have guns. Good deal.

 

[h0neymustard]

This question is fair and still stands.

The harder drugs are illegal in the United States. Where do they come in from?

 

[StormfrontFL]

The harder drugs are illegal in the United States. Where do they come in from?

Distraction....deflection....red herring....LAME
Answer Cal's question

 

[Drifterwood]

The harder drugs are illegal in the United States. Where do they come in from?

CIA deals?

What would happen in your madhouse if you didn't have them?

 

[Drifterwood]

Ah, so farmers can have guns. Good deal.

We always have. We are the Squires. We used to be relevant, but things have moved on.

 

[Calboner]

Here's a question for you: If regulations on gun sales affect only law-abiding gun purchasers, where do people who commit crimes with guns get their guns from?

The harder drugs are illegal in the United States. Where do they come in from?

Distraction....deflection....red herring....LAME
Answer Cal's question

It's so funny when one of Honeymustard's posts, in quoted form, appears above Stormfront's signature:

How can troll posts be recognised?

Missing The Point - Trolls rarely answer a direct question - they cannot, if asked to justify their twaddle - so they develop a fine line in missing the point.​

 

[h0neymustard]

Distraction....deflection....red herring....LAME
Answer Cal's question

I guess you're not smart enough to figure out that drugs (and guns) will come in through illegal means.

Or the government will provide them to you, just like Holder's Fast and Furious operation.

 

[h0neymustard]

University stands by tips for women to make themselves less ‘attractive’ victims, provides ‘context’ | Twitchy

Ridiculous. Some tips included "tell the rapist you've got an STD or are menstruating." Just remember, liberals believe this:

 

[Calboner]

I guess you're not smart enough to figure out that drugs (and guns) will come in through illegal means.

Or the government will provide them to you, just like Holder's Fast and Furious operation.

Setting aside the red herring in the second paragraph, what are the "illegal means" by which guns will "come in"? Are you making the assertion that guns used in crimes are mostly obtained from other countries? If so, what evidence do you have to support that claim?

 

[h0neymustard]

Not a red herring, because guns used in Mexican drug cartels have been traced back to the guns in the Fast and Furious operation. Run by Holder and the government.

Also back to the gun show wiki link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_shows_in_the_United_States#Research_and_studies

The remaining 99.2% of inmates reported obtaining firearms from other sources, including "From a friend/family member" (36.8%), "Off the street/from a drug dealer" (20.9%), "From a fence/black market source" (9.6%), "From a pawnshop," "From a flea market," "From the victim," or "In a burglary." 9% of inmates replied "Don't Know/Other" to the question of where they acquired a firearm and 4.4% refused to answer.

 

[798686]

Joll, let's say that Britain does allow guns to be sold again. Following the system we have here in America, with the rigorous background checks that we here in the States go through, guns are sold to law-abiding subjects. Do you think crime would go up if guns were sold to the law-abiding subjects?

Yes, I do - or more likely, it would be easier for potentially non-law abiding ones to get hold of them. You seem to assume that once law-abiding means always law-abiding, which isn't necessarily the case (given changes in mood, situation, mental state, etc). I'm guessing some of the people who have committed mass killings were assumed to be law-abiding beforehand?

It also doesn't account for accidents - so yes, of course there would be more deaths if we reintroduced guns.

Cal is correct tho - where are the background checks for the guns sold at shows?

 

[Fuzzy_]

The harder drugs are illegal in the United States. Where do they come in from?

This is an interesting attempt at an analogy because meth labs seem to be most common in the 'gun' States.

Meth lab map

Gun death-versus-ownership map

Unlike meth, guns aren't [usually] made in backyard sheds (although legal and illegal modifications may be done in such places).

In the US, guns are made by legitimate manufacturers but, just as illicit enterprises seek out legitimate markets, legitimate enterprises seek relationships with criminal enterprises to increase profit. The Iran-Contra affair is famous example where legitimate manufacturers provided guns to a legitimate government to use for illegitimate purposes.

As Zygmunt Bauman wrote, "We are reminded of what we know but prefer not to be told about: that all those weapons used to make the far-away homelands into killing fields have been supplied by our own arms factories" (source).

Not a red herring, because guns used in Mexican drug cartels have been traced back to the guns in the Fast and Furious operation. Run by Holder and the government.

Also back to the gun show wiki link.
Gun shows in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The remaining 99.2% of inmates reported obtaining firearms from other sources, including "From a friend/family member" (36.8%), "Off the street/from a drug dealer" (20.9%), "From a fence/black market source" (9.6%), "From a pawnshop," "From a flea market," "From the victim," or "In a burglary." 9% of inmates replied "Don't Know/Other" to the question of where they acquired a firearm and 4.4% refused to answer.

Where does it state that these arms didn't originally come from gun shows?

 

[Calboner]

Not a red herring, because guns used in Mexican drug cartels have been traced back to the guns in the Fast and Furious operation. Run by Holder and the government.

So you are claiming that criminals as a rule get guns from Mexican drug cartels who get them supplied to them by the US government?

Remember, my question was not "Where have some criminals (in the US) gotten their guns?" but "Where do criminals (in the US) get their guns?"--meaning, where, in general, do they get them? What are the significant sources?

Citing Fast and Furious is a red herring because, even if the most shocking claims about it are true, it can only account for a tiny proportion of guns used in crimes in the US.

 

[StormfrontFL]

I guess you're not smart enough to figure out that drugs (and guns) will come in through illegal means.

Or the government will provide them to you, just like Holder's Fast and Furious operation.

I guess you're not smart enough to figure out that this issue you want to focus on doesn't address Cal's question to you about how criminals acquire guns from legal gun owners despite your insistence that we have very thorough background checks.

It's also fascinating to know that you think Obama has a time machine. How else could criminals have been getting guns over the last few decades?

 

[sbat]

I guess you're not smart enough to figure out that this issue you want to focus on doesn't address Cal's question to you about how criminals acquire guns from legal gun owners despite your insistence that we have very thorough background checks.

It's also fascinating to know that you think Obama has a time machine. How else could criminals have been getting guns over the last few decades?

3D printing. Duh.

 

[Fuzzy_]

Thanks for bringing that up. Fuzzy has a personal interest in this issue.

Despite the 'hard' technologies of police border patrols and fences, detection of arms-smuggling submarines and airport x-ray machines, the real threat to gun control might soon be the Internet. A 3-D printer is a machine that uses a software model from a file to 'print' a material version of that model. The printing process can use a variety of materials such as plastic 'ink'. Rather than simply printing in two dimensions, it keeps adding layers of material with each pass until the 3-D replica is complete. To create a plastic gun, one can simply download a file from the Internet that contains the model (blueprint) for a gun, and use a 3-D printer to reproduce the gun. Although the printers are expensive, the files can be obtained freely. This software on the files may be open source, which means that its use is not restricted by licenses or international copyright law. It has been supposed that anybody with access to a 3-D printer can download a file and print a real gun.

Transnational policing has focused on institutional arrangements institutionalized informal practices, and questions of citizens' rights. With the advent of high-tech crime, which is an inherently international phenomenon, U.S. policing has been forced to globalize. Reducing international cybercrime has opened new opportunities expanding jurisdictional claims and cooperation between international law enforcement agencies. The U.S. has been a leader in instituting multilateral-level cooperative agreements, including computer crimes. As the 'war on drugs' has shifted to the 'war on terror', to the 'war on domestic terror', so has the increased reliance on technology and diplomacy to control the flow of international arms across U.S. borders -- but controlling the Internet is much more trickier than controlling physical contraband with 'hard' technologies.

The U.S. is a leader in Internet law enforcement, including collaboration with other nation-states to reduce cybercrime at the multilateral level to design and implement cooperative agreements on many international law enforcement issues. This has increased the legitimacy of the U.S.' crime control policies and the criminal laws of other nations are conforming more to these Internet policies. Among these was the U.S.' proposal for increased control of illicit firearms in the 2000 UN Convention Against Transnational Organized Crime, which signatories were to abide by.

From a practical perspective, one can't print ammunition and these guns apparently aren't that strong. The real key to transnational gun control might be to focus on ammunition control, registration of 3-d printers and conventional cyber policing. U.S. libertarians see the open-source, 3-D printing of guns as a method of circumventing government policy to protect individual constitutional rights, including the First and Second Amendments, and they are largely responsible for the push in improving this emerging technology.

 

[sbat]

Thanks for bringing that up. Fuzzy has a personal interest in this issue.

Despite the 'hard' technologies of police border patrols and fences, detection of arms-smuggling submarines and airport x-ray machines, the real threat to gun control might soon be the Internet. A 3-D printer is a machine that uses a software model from a file to 'print' a material version of that model. The printing process can use a variety of materials such as plastic 'ink'. Rather than simply printing in two dimensions, it keeps adding layers of material with each pass until the 3-D replica is complete. To create a plastic gun, one can simply download a file from the Internet that contains the model (blueprint) for a gun, and use a 3-D printer to reproduce the gun. Although the printers are expensive, the files can be obtained freely. This software on the files may be open source, which means that its use is not restricted by licenses or international copyright law. It has been supposed that anybody with access to a 3-D printer can download a file and print a real gun.

Transnational policing has focused on institutional arrangements institutionalized informal practices, and questions of citizens' rights. With the advent of high-tech crime, which is an inherently international phenomenon, U.S. policing has been forced to globalize. Reducing international cybercrime has opened new opportunities expanding jurisdictional claims and cooperation between international law enforcement agencies. The U.S. has been a leader in instituting multilateral-level cooperative agreements, including computer crimes. As the 'war on drugs' has shifted to the 'war on terror', to the 'war on domestic terror', so has the increased reliance on technology and diplomacy to control the flow of international arms across U.S. borders -- but controlling the Internet is much more trickier than controlling physical contraband with 'hard' technologies.

The U.S. is a leader in Internet law enforcement, including collaboration with other nation-states to reduce cybercrime at the multilateral level to design and implement cooperative agreements on many international law enforcement issues. This has increased the legitimacy of the U.S.' crime control policies and the criminal laws of other nations are conforming more to these Internet policies. Among these was the U.S.' proposal for increased control of illicit firearms in the 2000 UN Convention Against Transnational Organized Crime, which signatories were to abide by.

From a practical perspective, one can't print ammunition and these guns apparently aren't that strong. The real key to transnational gun control might be to focus on ammunition control, registration of 3-d printers and conventional cyber policing. U.S. libertarians see the open-source, 3-D printing of guns as a method of circumventing government policy to protect individual constitutional rights, including the First and Second Amendments, and they are largely responsible for the push in improving this emerging technology.

Good info.

But I was just being facetious. :biggrin1:

 

[edonline]

University stands by tips for women to make themselves less ‘attractive’ victims, provides ‘context’ | Twitchy

Ridiculous. Some tips included "tell the rapist you've got an STD or are menstruating." Just remember, liberals believe this:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index....n=dlattach;topic=453725.0;attach=498652;image

Try again.

Brady Campaign Ad

Claim: An advertisement by the Brady Campaign contrasts rape with gun murders.

FALSE

snopes.com: Brady Campaign Ad

 

[Calboner]

Try again.

Brady Campaign Ad

Claim: An advertisement by the Brady Campaign contrasts rape with gun murders.

FALSE

snopes.com: Brady Campaign Ad

I didn't even bother to click on Honey's link. Thanks for going to the trouble of verifying that it was up to his usual standard of reliability.

 

[h0neymustard]

Try again.

Brady Campaign Ad

Claim: An advertisement by the Brady Campaign contrasts rape with gun murders.

FALSE

snopes.com: Brady Campaign Ad

Oh, I know it's a PS. But the message is the same.