Gun control

[Chrysippus]

Do you 1.)know how to 2.)have a political discussion without ad hominem attacks?

Re Bduh00:
1.) No, he doesn’t.
2.). He never has.

 

[950483]

Industriallies will be posting a rebuke of your shortly for your ad hominem attacks.

Google 'ad hominem attack'.

 

[Max_Polo]

Can you show me the post in which @Industrialsize advocated the repeal/elimination of the second amendment?

https://www.lpsg.com/threads/gun-control.328871/page-333#post-6729054

Maybe he posted the Op Ed but disagrees with it and to label him is unfair.

So, @Industrialsize - do you favor repeal of the Second Amendment or not?

 

[Tight_N_Juicy]

Whataboutism at its finest.

You repeat yourself a lot

 

[phonehome]

Explain the "obvious constitutional reasons"

If you are going to say the 2nd amendment just exactly in the text of the amendment, the actual words dopes it say that or even hint at that.

Do you have every bit as much of a constitutional right to buy Sine-Aid , another totally legal product ?

For going on 20 years now the DEA has had a searchable database for that, that in addition to being "search capable" all on it's own raises "red flags" if you are buying 100 boxes a week and if you are you can count on getting a knock on your door from LE, now if you can show you still have those 100 boxes or otherwise account for it then all is well but if you do not and all signs point to you making meth with it like you appear flush with cash even though according to the IRS you have not earned a single dollar in the last 5 years well then that is not so fine

 

[Max_Polo]

gun ownership does seem to be linked to paranoia, self-interest, fear, and various other kinds of cowardly and negative shit.

Where does this statement come from? Your own personal opinion I assume?

 

[Max_Polo]

You repeat yourself a lot

Learned from the master. I think it's copy/paste, but not sure.

 

[950483]

Where does this statement come from? Your own personal opinion I assume?

Observation rather than opinion, I would say. *shrugs* just read the threads on this site even. Would you like to disclose your reasons for owning a gun?

 

[Max_Polo]

Observation rather than opinion, I would say. *shrugs* just read the threads on this site even. Would you like to disclose your reasons for owning a gun?

Have explained multiple times, feel free to take a look at that. Don't think you'll find paranoia, cowardice or fear.

 

[950483]

Have explained multiple times, feel free to take a look at that. Don't think you'll find paranoia, cowardice or fear.

Save me some time by explaining it again please. I need to walk my dogs in a minute.

 

[Industrialsize]

Not entirely correct. And, without context sounds outrageous, even to me. A little research reveals though that the FOPA was passed in response to prior ATF abuses of law-abiding citizens. Not a huge Wikipedia fan, but here's some reasonabel information there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act

And despite FOPA There Are Some Limited Government Gun Databases

In addition to the local authorities who may disregard the local law we also know that the ATF keeps at least 5 databases ofspecific firearms and their owners to include:

•Multiple Sale Reports. Over 460,000 (as of 2003) Multiple Sales reports (ATF F 3310.4 – a registration record with specific firearms and owner name and address – increasing by about 140,000 per year). Reported as 4.2 million records in 2010.
•Suspect Guns. All guns suspected of being used for criminal purposes but not recovered by law enforcement. This database includes (ATF's own examples), individuals purchasing large quantities of firearms, and dealers with improper record keeping. May include guns observed by law enforcement in an estate, or at a gun show, or elsewhere. Reported as 34,807 in 2010.
•Traced Guns. Over 4 million detail records from all traces since inception. This is a registration record which includes the personal information of the first retail purchaser, along with the identity of the selling dealer.
•Out of Business Records. Data is manually collected from paper Out-of-Business records (or input from computer records) and entered into the trace system by ATF. These are registration records which include name and address, make, model, serial and caliber of the firearm(s), as well as data from the 4473 form – in digital or image format. In March, 2010, ATF reported receiving several hundred million records since 1968.
•Theft Guns. Firearms reported as stolen to ATF. Contained 330,000 records in 2010. Contains only thefts from licensed dealers and interstate carriers (optional). Does not have an interface to the FBI's National Crime Information Center (NCIC) theft data base, where the majority of stolen, lost and missing firearms are reported.

not entirely correct:
The Low-Tech Way Guns Get Traced
May 20, 20135:11 PM ET

The trace begins after police seize a gun at a crime scene and then reach out to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives National Tracing Center in Martinsburg, W.Va. — the one place in the country that can investigate where the gun came from.

Here, in a warren of cubicles, ATF contractors are busy on the phones pursuing trace after trace. On a recent visit, they had 700 calls to make. Last year, ATF processed more than 344,000 crime gun trace requests.
Here's how it works:

Local law enforcement sends ATF the particulars on the gun they've seized: the manufacturer, model, caliber, serial number. ATF then starts running that information back through the distribution chain, contacting the gun manufacturer — say, Glock or Smith & Wesson — and the manufacturer checks its records and identifies the wholesaler it sold the firearm to.

Then, ATF contacts the wholesaler and goes down the record chain until it finds the retail gun dealer. It's that dealer who should be able to say who bought that firearm.


It's up to the federally licensed gun dealer to keep the record of each gun purchase. It's a three-page form called a 4473 that the buyer and dealer have to fill out before a sale.
http://www.npr.org/2013/05/20/185530763/the-low-tech-way-guns-get-traced

 

[Incandescence]

Yes, that's what I want, that is what I said in my post, - evidence of this, because gun ownership does seem to be linked to paranoia, self-interest, fear, and various other kinds of cowardly and negative shit.

Aren’t all people paranoid, self-interested, afraid, and various other kinds of cowardly and negative shit? Methinks this kind of argument, that tries to substantalize (always, always so as to contain and control) psychological processes is the root of the problem to begin with because it illegitimately separates what is indivisible. To put this in other terms, it’s not that homosexuals comprise a very small part of the population (a minoritizing view) so much as the whole population is a little gay... or when someone speaks of “unconscious thoughts,” apparently forgetting that the unconscious is the condition and a process of thinking, not a container for some naughty ideas. This whole approach of profiling and psychologizing people just completely misses the broader, more profound, more important questions of what it is that tips the scales in any case and not another.

“Gun control” stands as the stupidest mask, the bloodiest symptom of this country’s ongoing refusal to understand social unrest.

 

[Max_Polo]

Save me some time by explaining it again please. I need to walk my dogs in a minute.

Well, we've had this conversation before but maybe these will help clarify...

https://www.lpsg.com/threads/pray-for-vegas.483298/page-4#post-6729435

https://www.lpsg.com/threads/pray-for-vegas.483298/page-4#post-6729508

https://www.lpsg.com/threads/russia-and-trump.460241/page-128#post-6725105

https://www.lpsg.com/threads/gun-control.328871/page-346#post-6734103

 

[Chrysippus]

Gun control” stands as the stupidest mask, the bloodiest symptom of this country’s ongoing refusal to understand social unrest.

How better to understand social unrest than to let agencies like the CDC study it: afraid of what they might find?

 

[Max_Polo]

How better to understand social unrest than to let agencies like the CDC study it: afraid of what they might find?

CDC have their hands full with influenza, malaria and other diseases. Squeezing jello will provide more useful information than throwing more money at studying "social unrest."

 

[950483]

Have explained multiple times, feel free to take a look at that. Don't think you'll find paranoia, cowardice or fear.

Just answer a straightforward question. I asked why you do own a gun.

 

[Max_Polo]

Just answer a straightforward question. I asked why you do own a gun.

You must not have liked the prior several times I've answered your question but will do again:

https://www.lpsg.com/threads/gun-control.328871/page-347#post-6734205

 

[950483]

You must not have liked the prior several times I've answered your question but will do again:

https://www.lpsg.com/threads/gun-control.328871/page-347#post-6734205

Lol. You are not willing or able to just answer that simple question without being all complicated, mysterious and defensive about it then?
I was merely giving you the opportunity to explain why you choose to own a gun. In the other threads you have referred me to your responses were more geared towards defending certain points or aspects.

 

[Tight_N_Juicy]

Just answer a straightforward question. I asked why you do own a gun.

I know you weren't talking to me lovely lady, but as someone who is more in the center on this issue: I am a gun owner for the sake of home/personal protection (not my things, my personal well being) and because I enjoy shooting for sport and many people in my circle hunt seasonally. We also have Matanza's, and using a gun is the quickest, easiest way to put down a large animal for slaughter. We like fresh meat, raised at home.

I do support my right to own a weapon, but I support it with a *shared support for regulations which keep the population from falling victim to avoidable gun deaths.

I don't feel insecure without a firearm. I watched Friday when it came out, and that lesson stuck with me lol.

 

[Max_Polo]

Lol. You are not willing or able to just answer that simple question without being all complicated, mysterious and defensive about it then?
I was merely giving you the opportunity to explain why you choose to own a gun. In the other threads you have referred me to your responses were more geared towards defending certain points or aspects.

I own firearms because I want to. That better?

I hunt infrequently, but enjoy when I do. Don't need to shoot anything I'm not going to eat, but love venison.

I enjoy shooting recreationally and value the opportunity to teach my children how to safely and responsibly handle firearms.

I value the ability to protect my home and family.

If I am not home, my guns are locked away where they cannot be stolen without Herculean effort. If someone steals my television while I'm gone, so be it. It's a problem for Chubb, not me. I'll be pissed, but I'll get a new TV and I would not shoot someone to stop them from stealing a TV.

If, on the other hand, someone enters my home while occupied, either my wife or I would not hesitate to use deadly force to protect ourselves and our family. Wouldn't think twice about it. Simple as that.​