Gun control

[rbkwp]

tbh
willing to accept anyones POV as far as the ridiculous/supposed gun control of the USA goes

apart from that.. the longer ya'all keep and believe in them God fearing 'founding fathers' beliefs,and the infamous BS ammendments
ya'all pretty well Fucked
get with 2000 onwards America, keeping/believing in centuries old shit

stupid to say but
almost as if you deserve the odd nutter to slaughter your citizenry
and dont forget theres more than a few of your own citizens who have done the deed
no hint of any mental disability until the dodo idiot pretend leader muttered it
another 4 possibly 8 years for your country to go backwards even more

 

[Chrysippus]

Yes but its supposed to be a secret, and they incarcerated a journalist (kidnapped him in fact to bring him to trial but hey, Israel is allowed to get away with anything) and when he was released he was put under strict controls and contact regulations, and, from the way the various factions of religious zealots are behaving their it might not be that safe,

C'mon, Vanunu's revelations about the Izzy nuclear weapons program at Dimona were in violation of agreements he signed in order to work as a technician at the NNRC in Dimona. He is not some self-sacrificing courageous journalist. He revealed state secrets. He was lured back to Israel by a Mossad honey-trap agent (interesting how the cock gets us in trouble...). It's lucky and somewhat gracious that they tried him legally because he was a citizen. He didn't get the Biretta 22-cal gunshot in the head in an assassination like the Izzies did with Gerald Bull.

 

[TexanStar]

Set of 10 Red and Green Remington Shotgun Shell Christmas Lights - Green Wire

 

[Chrysippus]

Set of 10 Red and Green Remington Shotgun Shell Christmas Lights - Green Wire

Let’s light up up the tree and have a couple shooters!

 

[Brodie888]

Yes, guns, guns, guns. Control them, and--but wait! Airliners, trucks, cars, IEDs have been the means of mass murder and terrorism here in America as well. And not just America: European countries have stricter gun laws, but can't exactly control who drives motor vehicles (London, Nice, etc.) or gets a pilot's license and takes an A320 German Wings airliner into a mountain side, or who can purchase the ingredients to make TATP or purchase nails and ball bearings to use as lethal shrapnel. And no one should have a cell phone that can be used as a remote detonation device, for that matter.

This is really a false equivalence. You can kill someone with a spoon if you tried hard enough. We can't stop every means of killing people.

The difference being that an assault riffle is designed to kill lots of people very quickly. That is it's purpose. AND it can be regulated as shown in every other western country on the planet to reduce mortality of innocent people.

The constitution is not the Bible. It can and has been changed to adapt to the needs of the people.

 

[BIGBULL29]

This is really a false equivalence. You can kill someone with a spoon if you tried hard enough. We can't stop every means of killing people.

The difference being that an assault riffle is designed to kill lots of people very quickly. That is it's purpose. AND it can be regulated as shown in every other western country on the planet to reduce mortality of innocent people.

The constitution is not the Bible. It can and has been changed to adapt to the needs of the people.

The Constitution must always be viewed as a "living document"; otherwise, it's trying to apply 17-18th century living to the 21st.

All amendments come with some degree of restriction. That's common sense (what ever happened to that?).

The 2nd Amendment obstinance on the Right is rooted in a fierce culture war. The hate for the other side is what fuels the lack of common sense. Passions before common sense - and that will kill us - and it is now!

Obama shouldn't have said that "some cling to guns and religion", even though it's 110% true. That was a scream in the ear of many white, blue-collared people around America, ending with more passion surrounding the 2nd Amendment, and leaving no room - not even an inch - for common sense. The NRA/GOP politicians capitalized on it (money reasons) and voilà, we lost our way, mired knee-deep in absurdities.

And remember one more thing: Nuclear weapons don't kill, people do (that's good old-fashioned common sense, right?).

 

[Chrysippus]

The constitution is not the Bible. It can and has been changed to adapt to the needs of the people.

‘the Bible’ doesnt have a fucking thing to do with the issue at hand. Good luck to you on constitutional change:

 

[Brodie888]

‘the Bible’ doesnt have a fucking thing to do with the issue at hand. Good luck to you on constitutional change:

You totally missed the point.

Fortunately stricter gun regulation doesn't require a constitutional amendment anyway.

 

[sizehungry]

It's not anti gun, it's pro control.

Do you need to have the difference explained?

I do not need clarification from anybody , and that includes you . We have excellent gun control legislation in this country , but there are those who leap aboard the " bandwagon " with little knowledge , and even less objectivity . We also have the media , almost hysterically wringing the last drop of sensationalism out of these tragedies , and what do they do ? . In astounding display of cynical insensitivity , they screen a " shoot em up , kill em all, movie . The laws in Australia should be , at least studied , and perhaps implemented , by other countries who have lax firearms laws . The other matter that should be addressed , are penalties , relating to crimes of violence in general , and firearm crime in particular , that is to say ," punish the offender " reflecting the nature of his/her crime , rather than those who adhere to the laws of the land . I obey the law in everything i do , and i am heartily sick of being " pilloried " by some hysterical anti gun fanatic who just wants to get some " air time " . They do exist , and i have both seen , and heard them . So before you start salivating over another attack , i decided of my own Free will , not to purchase the firearms that i was interested in , not because some halfwit , self styled, "social engineer" decreed it so . Good day to you Sir .

 

[ozwestcoastboy]

 

[b.c.]

Does anyone miss Bullies opinion on this subject? Or the Trauma Queen? Bit of a one way street now...*sigh*

Uhhh, in a word, NO.

I don't care what you bet on. I don't care how confident you are. I don't believe in a total gun ban or in confiscation. I am a lefty but I don't want a total gun ban. I don't want to repeal the second amendment. Take your dare and shove it, because your post doesn't add anything to a discussion of 'active shooting situations'.

There will be more mass murders and more single murders where a gun is the means of the murder(s), not the cause. There is no 'new reality' that you speak of. Your resort to metaphor--'put our heads in the sand', 'continue to be sitting ducks' isn't colorful, insightful, or particularly effective--it's just babble. Saying the 'NRA is as powerful as a dance club' is, well, just plain goofy.

Exactly. Those kinds of arguments that mischaracterize our positions on gun control are made because THEY can't explain their opposition to better gun control nor successfully argue why wanting them DOESN'T make sense.

So they present extreme distortions and assumptions about what we're after for the purpose of frightening people into thinking someone wants to take away all their guns. Pure poppycock.

I own guns. A shotgun, a .22 rifle, and a Beretta, and sure as hell don't want them taken away. We just want better controls on who can get their hands on assault styled weapons. One thing SHOULD be indisputable: that the "system" as it is now had DEFINITELY failed the victims of this crime, in that a person with Kelley's record was able to legally purchase this kind of weapon.

 

[phonehome]

BC

Actually I think to much is being made of that.

Lets just suppose that it had "worked perfectly" all that means is that he could not buy those guns from an FFL who would be required to do a background check which of course he would fail, so knowing that he would have never went that route.

He would have went to a gun show, which Texas has as many if not more than most states, walked in and without exchanging as much a first name, plunked down the right amount of cash and walked out with that AR and those 3 pistols.

 

[b.c.]

BC

Actually I think to much is being made of that.

Lets just suppose that it had "worked perfectly" all that means is that he could not buy those guns from an FFL who would be required to do a background check which of course he would fail, so knowing that he would have never went that route.

He would have went to a gun show, which Texas has as many if not more than most states, walked in and without exchanging as much a first name, plunked down the right amount of cash and walked out with that AR and those 3 pistols.

This is true, which is why many of us who favor better gun control laws would see an end to the sale of assault weapons and to gun shows as well.

And even that might not necessarily guarantee that people like Kelley wouldn't be able to find a way. But at least it'd be better than what we've got now.

 

[phonehome]

Actually I would not be for a ban on sales of assault style weapons but they would be regulated along the lines of full auto weapons under the NFA

Same for "high capacity mags" yes you could buy them but you could not just walk in buy how ever many and that be that. Their would be a record of them and you would have to account for them.

Just like that AR you bought you can not just sell them to "nobody"

Once background checks are extended to gun shows and other "private sales" and their were valid technology based reasons why they were excluded back in the 90's which no longer exist today then gun shows will by in large cease to exist.

Anyone who was around back then knows that prior to "instant back ground checks" when it was just the BATF form which surprise surprise people LIED on gun shows for all practical purposes did not even exist, certainly nothing like how we know them today.

To me that is all the proof you need, to know what guns shows are "really for"

 

[Chrysippus]

You totally missed the point.
Fortunately stricter gun regulation doesn't require a constitutional amendment anyway.

No, it doesn't, but who do you know in Washington that has the guts and lobby-independence to do anything about it? The fact that nothing is done may indicate a 'yeah, well, so what?' attitude in the American populace.

I am sick to death of what I heard following the church shootings:

1.) Now is not the time/it's too soon to discuss how to deal with the issue.

2.) It's a mental health issue. Oh? anyone rational enough to plan out and practice mass murder in advance is not incompetent by virtue of mental illness.
Yes, let's make it about whack-job crazies and then do nothing about the supposed psychopathology. In this society, anyone who, with malice and forethought, commits murder has to be 'sick' to do it--forget human viciousness and malice. Bullshit bullshit bullshit. Someone please prove to me that Kelley's prior domestic violence contributed to this. Someone please prove to me that the Vegas shooter was mentally ill.

3.) Extreme vetting. Oh, fucking please.

3.) Our thoughts and prayers... Ugh! A greeting-card stock response from the impotent who utter it.

I actually heard David Muir on last nights ABC news call the two citizens who pursued the shooter, one of whom wounded Kelley, 'good Samaritans'. Somehow, that description doesn't even come close to who the good Samaritan originally was and what he did to be recognized as 'good'. And of course, they're heroes... Participation trophies, anyone?

It's absolutely fucking ridiculous to mention, as @Brodie888 did above, that murder could be as easily accomplished with a spoon: Kelley didn't and couldn't commit twenty-six murders with a fucking spoon in less than ten minutes or so; that argument is, well, just plain stupid.

There is something inherently wrong about the 'how did it make you feel, what were you thinking...' questioning that the media always does following such an event. And the audiences who supposedly are interested in it, are IMHO, feeding a need for vicitm-suffering porn.

The sentimentality of 'tragedy-strikes-the-American-homeland small town, and people come together afterwards'. This isn't proof of the good in human beings, it's humans do to to pick up and go on.

And I am thankful that Trump didn't offer to send in the Feds like he did with regard to Chicago? Chicago? Why aren't we still talking about gun murder in Chicago? Oh well... On to the next lurid sensational mass murder committed with weapons of mass destruction.

 

[chrisrobin]

This is really a false equivalence. You can kill someone with a spoon if you tried hard enough. We can't stop every means of killing people.

The difference being that an assault riffle is designed to kill lots of people very quickly. That is it's purpose. AND it can be regulated as shown in every other western country on the planet to reduce mortality of innocent people.

The constitution is not the Bible. It can and has been changed to adapt to the needs of the people.

You are correct and the constitution could be changed but it would cost politicians a lot of votes and a great deal of money - and in the USA where million's cannot read, health cover isn't considered to be essential life is cheap.
Where there's a will there's a way, but the only WILL in this case is the one left by those who get shot.

No, it doesn't, but who do you know in Washington that has the guts and lobby-independence to do anything about it? The fact that nothing is done may indicate a 'yeah, well, so what?' attitude in the American populace.

I am sick to death of what I heard following the church shootings:

1.) Now is not the time/it's too soon to discuss how to deal with the issue.

2.) It's a mental health issue. Oh? anyone rational enough to plan out and practice mass murder in advance is not incompetent by virtue of mental illness.
Yes, let's make it about whack-job crazies and then do nothing about the supposed psychopathology. In this society, anyone who, with malice and forethought, commits murder has to be 'sick' to do it--forget human viciousness and malice. Bullshit bullshit bullshit. Someone please prove to me that Kelley's prior domestic violence contributed to this. Someone please prove to me that the Vegas shooter was mentally ill.

3.) Extreme vetting. Oh, fucking please.

3.) Our thoughts and prayers... Ugh! A greeting-card stock response from the impotent who utter it.

I actually heard David Muir on last nights ABC news call the two citizens who pursued the shooter, one of whom wounded Kelley, 'good Samaritans'. Somehow, that description doesn't even come close to who the good Samaritan originally was and what he did to be recognized as 'good'. And of course, they're heroes... Participation trophies, anyone?

It's absolutely fucking ridiculous to mention, as @Brodie888 did above, that murder could be as easily accomplished with a spoon: Kelley didn't and couldn't commit twenty-six murders with a fucking spoon in less than ten minutes or so; that argument is, well, just plain stupid.

There is something inherently wrong about the 'how did it make you feel, what were you thinking...' questioning that the media always does following such an event. And the audiences who supposedly are interested in it, are IMHO, feeding a need for vicitm-suffering porn.

The sentimentality of 'tragedy-strikes-the-American-homeland small town, and people come together afterwards'. This isn't proof of the good in human beings, it's humans do to to pick up and go on.

And I am thankful that Trump didn't offer to send in the Feds like he did with regard to Chicago? Chicago? Why aren't we still talking about gun murder in Chicago? Oh well... On to the next lurid sensational mass murder committed with weapons of mass destruction.

It was Trump who came up with the worst case scenario by claiming that had the Texas shooter not been pursued and shot by a gun toting guy the shooter could have gone on to kill many many more - what's witch this guy with his pure supposition just to protect his own views on gun control.
Would he say that had one of his family been in involved?

 

[rbkwp]

not only but also
its your media reporting,not Ru
speak for civilized nations huh Trump
not attributing his actions to you nor
expect you to cure all,but an attempt at it may help
esp when in a position to do so

looking after the American citizen first huh

A video captured the Texas church attack. An official said it shows the gunman methodically shooting victims in the head.
Wednesday, November 8, 2017 11:32 AM EST
The gunman who committed the massacre in a rural Texas church fired continuously for several minutes, methodically shooting his victims – including small children – in the head, execution-style, a law enforcement official briefed on the investigation said on Wednesday.
A video camera captured the bloodbath inside the church, which left 26 people dead and 20 wounded — the worst mass shooting in Texas history — and state and federal investigators have reviewed that gruesome footage.
Read More »

 

[phonehome]

Yes DJT was totally talking out of his ass when he was on his "good guy with a gun" rant stating many things as if they were an absolute verified FACT when they are not even close to that.

He was engaged when he was EXITING the church which means all the killing he was going to do at that location he was finished with. Considering the number of rounds he fired, some reports say 450 or so he was probably out of ammo, now some may say that maybe he had more ammo in his vehicle but to date we have no reports that that was the case and if he had, especially 556 he may have been more likely to shoot it out with that "good guy with the gun" especially seeing how we do not know what kind of rifle he had or how many rounds of ammo he had left.

It is also speculation in the extreme to state as if were some known and verified FACT that he would have in this small town been on his way to some second target where he would have been able kill "many many more" if there would have been a location with even that many assembled potential targets.

Last but not least is the assertion that what ever regulations that would have prevented the shooter from getting his AR and multiple 30 round mags as easily as he did would have prevented that "good guy with the gun" from having his and hence not being able to have his when the need arose is again as the say in legal circles "facts not in evidence" as already stated we do not know what kind of rifle he had, was it an AR or AK which would have also potentially been "banned" or a Reminton Bolt or Winchester lever which would ahve still been perfectly legal assuming it was one with a "detachable box magazine" did he have a "high capactity magazine" which may been "banned" or was it your typical 3 or 4 rounds or in the case of a Ruger 10/22 10 rounds all of which would ahve still been "legal".

 

[sizehungry]

I have owned a shit load of high capacity auto loaders back in the days when one could go in and buy them without question . After the " Port Arthur " massacre , I handed all of mine in , during the amnesty/buyback scheme . The number of weapons handed in by law abiding citizens , was both astounding , and heavily reported via the media . Where this program failed , was in the fact that a lot of weapons , particularly those in the hands of criminals , just went " underground . If I was inclined to do so , ( which I am not ) , i could ,within a couple of hours , purchase a black market pistol , auto loader , etc , etc . .As I stated , i have no intention of doing this ( if you can't do the time , don't do the crime ) , but i do know how . So how do you police knowledge ? Simple , you cannot , not effectively anyway . What we can do however , is educate , educate , educate . Educate against bullying , marginalization , racism , persecution , violence ,etc , etc . If we were to start a commonsense program with our young , perhaps we could " short circuit " some of the " foundation beds " of simmering , resentments , that we find so often in those who commit these outrages . As for penalties for violent crimes , " Never to be released " , or perhaps ( highly emotive ) even the death penalty , and long ,hard time for assault , I certainly favor . I don't know , but i feel that intensive education regarding what we say and do to others , and the inherent danger of ignoring it , could , perhaps , be one small step toward a better future for the current , and subsequent generations .

 

[chrisrobin]

One simple fact.
If there were no guns there would be no gun crime.