Gun control

TexanStar

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When people multiple people are getting run down like that on an almost weekly basis we will worry about that then.

World wide it is closer to once per year.

This logic says that because people can die from eating things other than Romain lettuce even though right now that is a not the case so lets no do anything about Romain lettuce either.when now that is the case. IE "lets just do nothing"

This incident in Canada was their deadliest massacre since 1996 (32 years ago).
 
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LittleBuzzSaw

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As mine was to yours.

Round and round we go. Debating real issues with you is fantastic. We could be talking about access to high capacity military style weapons with high penetrative power, destructive rounds, high range, and an ability to inflict mass casualties

and instead we're talking about knives and shotguns because it showed up on your google news feed i guess.
But the common Deer rifle penetrates more than 2 times as far as an AR15.

Guess what’s next on the agenda.....
 

LittleBuzzSaw

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We had multiple shootings here in LA the past few days. It's been on an uptick.
But in each (I’m reasonably certain), since there were no mass casualties, and commonplace weapons were used such as *not* AR 15’s, the national news won’t air it because it fails to meet the “narrative of the hour”.

How far off truth am I?
 

AdamHenry

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But in each (I’m reasonably certain), since there were no mass casualties, and commonplace weapons were used such as *not* AR 15’s, the national news won’t air it because it fails to meet the “narrative of the hour”.

How far off truth am I?
All handguns.
 
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Max_Polo

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But the common Deer rifle penetrates more than 2 times as far as an AR15.

Guess what’s next on the agenda.....

Seriously. Stop with the facts already. You know that's not relevant here.
 

phonehome

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When the weapon of choice becomes "the common deer rifle" then we will worry about that.

We have 10 years of experience that say that will NOT be the case.

However that common deer rifle has far more recoil than an AR-15 type rifle which has basically none so for many mass shooters it is in fact harder to shoot with any kind of accuracy IE "flinching"

However that common deer rifle even the ones with "detachable box magazines" and many do NOT have that feature but the ones that do hold 4 maybe 5 rounds there are a FEW aftermarket mags for a FEW common deer rifles the Remington semi autos mostly that hold as many as 10 rounds but they are few and far between and definitely hard to come by.

These mass shooters choose AR-15 type rifles time after time FOR A REASON beside that "they are popular" now you can acknowledge that or keep your head in the sand.

How many officers slain with edged weapons ?

How many slain with some type of firearm ?

I suspect it is not even close.

Most incidents involving the use of handguns only one or two people get killed IE they are NOT "mass shootings" hence not getting covered as such.

The Waffle House shooter had a 45 ACP which he did not use not even after his AR was empty.

Why do you supposed that was ??
 

TexanStar

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How many officers slain with edged weapons ?

How many slain with some type of firearm ?

I suspect it is not even close.

It isn't.

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/causes.html

#1 cause is firearm related (not necessarily by criminals, but a firearm was the cause).
#2 cause is vehicular accidents
#3 cause is job related illness

stabbing deaths do exist at a very small volume, but are lower than things like drowning and falls.
 
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Oooh! There’s an agenda!!! Illuminati? Masons? Jesuits? Colonizing aliens? Godless communists? Antifa? Jesus and his Rapture machine?
77im.gif
 

TexanStar

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404 page thread. Something the shotgun discussion got me thinking about is this... what is everyone's "wants" with respect to gun control legislation.

Anyone care to chime in with the kind of legislation they want to see added or removed from the current legal codes? I could start.

1) I want mandatory prosecution of the parents/guardians for any case where a minor in the home unknowingly gains access to a loaded firearm owned by those parents/guardians. None of this "They've suffered enough" attitude if their toddler shoots a sibling... if that happens, someone's going to jail. These types of laws exist already, but prosecution is super optional and seldom used. I want to see it used.

2) I want it illegal to possess any device or alteration which allows a semi-automatic weapon to fire as if it were automatic (e.g. bump stocks). The crime would be for possession (yes some people will still 3d print them or jury rig them, the point is to give another tool to law enforcement to bust someone's ass if they're caught with one).

3) background checks should be required for all gun sales (specifically meaning between private individuals) rather than just sales by licensed dealers. Technology is far enough along that it is not difficult to accommodate a thumbs up / thumbs down kind of check.

4) Escalation of current penalties for possession of an unlicensed / unregistered firearm for those jurisdictions which require it (someone who is in illegal possession of a handgun, for example, should receive much more than a slap on the wrist).

5) Firmer standing for law enforcement to deprive specific individuals of their firearms for criminal behavior (this happened in the wafflehouse case, but
5a) this should be more common
5b) this should be permanent, not a scenario where the police just hand the guns over to another family member)

6) I would love to see some reigning in of corporate lobbying in all areas, but that's not going to happen in the citizens united political landscape.
 

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They’re already here—they’ve been here for years.

They control you through yer business—it’s called UGC: under genital control. If you fuck it, if you lick it, if you suck it, if you take it up the popo or exchange/come in contact with body fluids, you’re THEIRS!!!
Flagellation just makes it better! God help us all!
 

phonehome

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T/S

I would agree with pretty much all of that.

Here would be my additions

Eliminate the "I didn't know defense" for straw buyers The two main areas of IDK are :I didn't know that that person could not legally buy/own a firearm" and then "I did not know he was going to committ a crime" as the law stand now thanks to many NRA dreamed up "amendments put into "must pass bills" over the years the government must PROVE that that straw buyer KNEW that that person they were buying that firearm for was not allowed to buy one himself. They are not even really allowed to ask "why didn't you ask him why he did not just buy the thing himself" When it comes to charging that person as some kind of accessory like they are talking about with the Waffle House shooters dad, the government has to prove that straw buyer knew they were going to go out and commit a crime. and unless they "confess" or there are other witnesses which is NOT the norm it is all but impossible to prove what someone, anyone "knew"

Give the ATF the same technology to detect "straw buyers" that the DEA has had and used for years and years no to ID people buy "cold medicine' and other Meth ingredients at retail pharmacies. in other words give the NICS system a "memory" so that if little Johnie in Tuscon who is 18 and has never held a job and curretly as far as the IRS is concerned never earned dollar one is buying thousands of dollars worth or firearms every week that it would raise a red flag with the ATF the same way if someone is buying dozens of boxes of Sine-Aid per week the DEA gets notified and can go know on that persons door, now if they can show shelves full of Sine _aid or can show that they gave them to all these recognized charities, homeless shelters, soups kitchens and what not all of which can verufy yess they got them then fine. If not you get arrested In the case of little Johnie, if when he gets that knock on the door he can show racks and boxes full of firearms or can show who he sold them too so that can be verified then again fine. If not he gets arrested.

The "memory" could be a fixed time period lets say a year after which entries would "self delete", an easy S/W instruction to appease the "national data base" conspiracy theorists.

There were valid technology based reasons for the "gun show loophole" back in the early 90's. I remember seeing parts of the debate on C-SPAN and I think it was Orrin Hatch who sited the example of little "general store" type gun shops way out in the middle of no where that had no phone service and few people had a cell phone, most being "car phones" or 'bag phones" for anyone who remembers "gun shows" as we know them today did not even really exist prior to the 90's close as you got was the odd person selling few old used weapons at a table or two at your local flea market. Now in 2018 virtually everyone has at least a "dumbphone" which can make voice calls for background checks if most "smartphones" or tablets or wireless modem equipped laptops to do one on the web so that if now you are not doing a background check it is not because you can not it is because you "on purpose" do NOT want to. That would mean little Johnie in Tuscon would have to do one, so he could not just claim he sold them to "no one" and has no records of any sales which is now the case.
 
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But the common Deer rifle penetrates more than 2 times as far as an AR15.

Guess what’s next on the agenda.....

Because Deer rifles can't mow down 50 people with one indiscriminate spray. Otherwise they would be issuing Deer Rifles to your defence force instead of Automatic Rifles. Would they not?
 
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Seriously. Stop with the facts already. You know that's not relevant here.

Facts? The facts are Deer stand still and look at bright lights, just like Kangaroo before they are shot with a high powered telescopic rifle, or run over on the highway.

The facts are, you compare people in fear of their lives running away from those murdering with automatic weapons to deer being shot by a rifle.

You are very deluded when you compare Deer being shot by Humans, as to Humans being shot at or murdered by other Humans with an automatic rifle..
 
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Max_Polo

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404 page thread. Something the shotgun discussion got me thinking about is this... what is everyone's "wants" with respect to gun control legislation.

Anyone care to chime in with the kind of legislation they want to see added or removed from the current legal codes? I could start.

1) I want mandatory prosecution of the parents/guardians for any case where a minor in the home unknowingly gains access to a loaded firearm owned by those parents/guardians. None of this "They've suffered enough" attitude if their toddler shoots a sibling... if that happens, someone's going to jail. These types of laws exist already, but prosecution is super optional and seldom used. I want to see it used.

2) I want it illegal to possess any device or alteration which allows a semi-automatic weapon to fire as if it were automatic (e.g. bump stocks). The crime would be for possession (yes some people will still 3d print them or jury rig them, the point is to give another tool to law enforcement to bust someone's ass if they're caught with one).

3) background checks should be required for all gun sales (specifically meaning between private individuals) rather than just sales by licensed dealers. Technology is far enough along that it is not difficult to accommodate a thumbs up / thumbs down kind of check.

4) Escalation of current penalties for possession of an unlicensed / unregistered firearm for those jurisdictions which require it (someone who is in illegal possession of a handgun, for example, should receive much more than a slap on the wrist).

5) Firmer standing for law enforcement to deprive specific individuals of their firearms for criminal behavior (this happened in the wafflehouse case, but
5a) this should be more common
5b) this should be permanent, not a scenario where the police just hand the guns over to another family member)

6) I would love to see some reigning in of corporate lobbying in all areas, but that's not going to happen in the citizens united political landscape.

1. Absolutely. That's what gun safes and trigger locks are for. We had neither of those (but did have firearms in house) when I was a kid - the threat of an ass whipping from dad kept me away from them.

2 - 6. Agree. Devil is in the details for each but on principal all makes sense.
 
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StormfrontFL

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Let me distill it for you since you're having some kind of seizure and Industrialsize likes it.

Dragging shotgun related stories into a gun control discussion is stupid and counterproductive. Shotguns of the type that was used in the story Stormfront linked are the types of guns that gun control advocates want people using instead of semi-automatic and automatic converted military style rifles.

There is a reason that only one student was shot in the school shooting Stormfront linked, and why that student is alive and not dead, and that reason is that shotguns are good for short range home defense and not mass shootings, assassinations, etc.

In a society that's going to maintain some access to firearms, it's the type of firearm you want. Not AR 15's. It'd be like if we were having a discussion about motorcycles and someone linked an article about a Schwinn.

There was a mass shooting at a Waffle House with 4 deaths using yet another AR-15, and here you want to talk about a fucking shotgun. The sheer idiocy you guys embrace makes it so extremely difficult to have any kind of discussion about anything in here.

If you want to use gun control legislation as a means to curb gun deaths in general, you would need to focus on access to handguns. If you want to use it to specifically control mass shooting scenarios, you need to focus on access to high capacity / rate of fire weapons like AR-15. If you want to start controlling people's access to shotguns... knives kill more than 4 times as many people per year than shotguns do, so roll out the fucking knife control legislation.

Shotguns. FFS.
Texan Star, for your information the title of this thread is GUN CONTROL, not AR-15 Control so the article I linked to is relevant. To say it isn't is stupid and counterproductive (your words).

The prevailing argument has been that getting access to a gun, any gun, is too easy. I'm sorry that for you it seems that doesn't matter.