Gun control

Rihanna

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Gun control, sadly, would not have saved MLK and others. Although gun control is well meaning, it would only succeed in taking guns away from lawful and responsible citizens. Education and competent enforcement of laws already on the books, rather than further legislation: this is probably the key to the problems with guns and drugs among other blights on our culture.
 

Male Bonding etc

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I'm working on an idea... something along the lines of "Easy Button Seduction"

We look for EASY ways to solve our problems...

Problem:
Difficult human behavior needs to be stopped (be it murdering, raping, threatening, stealing, abusing, tresspassing or just inconvenient... appearing in a movie, on a tv show, in a convenience store, in your home, in the yard, on the street, or in a country that happens to have oil reserves...)

Ethical Solution:
Hard to prove suspect is the "perp"
Sometimes truly guilty people escape or "get off"
The constitution guarantees certain rights
Takes time (most shows and movies are 2 hours long or less.. many people's attention spans are much shorter than that)
Local, national and world communities have some standards for "civil" or "ethical" behavior
Some people have lived complicated lives, but counseling, therapy, medication can modify or change their anti-social behaviors
Innocent people can be in the wrong place at the wrong time or look guilty
Victims and witnesses sometimes have agendas or get confused about what actually happened and who did it
Rational reaction, perhaps even forgiveness, is not as immediately gratifying as vengence

Easy Button Solution:
Guns
 

chico8

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We're a transient, uncaring society. Reagan closed the mental hospitals, cut HUD to the bone, refused to help the poor, it's been all down hill ever since. Rifles are fine for those who need them but the point of handguns is to kill people. Anyone who owns a handgun and isn't ready to kill someone, shouldn't own it.

More guns is not the answer but I think the US would be in a lot better shape if the NRA were forced to disband. They've done more harm than any other group of people when it comes to the murder rate in the US.
 

Gillette

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My thoughts inserted in red

First of all....

Guns don't go off by themselves. The gun is only the means to the murder.
It's the person BEHIND the firearm that is at Fault. Absolutely agreed
Gun Control Laws need to be re-vamped for the law abiding citizens.
Not sure about this, the biggest problem with the gun control laws is that it completely fails to regulate guns among criminals. I still think the waiting period is a good idea. While it may be relatively easy to purchase illegal guns not everyone is prepared to go that route. If the intent to buy a gun is to use it as a cowards weapon that person may not have the courage to deal with professional or even petty criminals.

Why is there high crime rates with Firearms?

1. Ease of use. You can be a total weakling and put down the biggest of bruits. Ease of use is both the biggest positive and negative regarding guns. If I'm facing the possibility of assault by a rapist or a bear in the woods, Damn straight I'm going to want something that will either discourage or end said attack. On the flip side, because of the ease of use and the physical distance they provide they are more easily used as a cowards weapon and a heat of the moment tool. It takes significantly less commitment to kill someone with a firearm than it does to stab or beat someone to death.

2. TV shows, movies, and all the hype: Kids see this, and try to re-inact on it. I think this links with #4. Parents should monitor their kids input and help them put what they see into perspective. Violent images simply aren't appropriate. It chills me to see a seven year old gleefully creating a scene of carnage in a virtual shopping mall and telling me how much fun it is. I also don't like seeing kids playing with toy guns before they have any concept of what death means. I applaud those toy makers who have taken the gun imagery out of the squirt gun.

3. LACK OF TRAINING or experience with firearms.
I laugh every time I see some "Gangsta" pointing his gun sideways - what a joke.
Theyre supposed to be these big bad boys... and they point the gun sideways so it doesnt have as much kick.
Pussies.
I don't know this for myself, but from what I've been told by marksmen is that that holding the gun sideways actually makes the kickback worse because you have less control. Specifically I was told, "it's a great way to get your wrist broken". If this is the case, then I hope more "gangstas" and criminals use the wrong grip and subsequently lose the ability to fire a gun sooner.

The lack of training is an interesting point in another sense too. I remember seeing a program more than ten years ago stating that there was a lower rate of gun related deaths in countries where military service and firearms training were mandatory. I'll leave the fact checking on that to Big D, I don't challenge the accuracy of anything he's referenced here. This does make sense to me because I think that those who are more educated about guns and their capabilities tend to be more responsible with their usage and care.

4. POOR PARENTAL mentoring, upbringing, and LACK of care of their firearms.

5. Un-equal gun control laws. A criminal can get a gun off the street in seconds. Law abiding citizens must wait a period of time before they are authorized to carry a handgun.

6. NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE SHOOT BACK! - Start shooting back at these dumb shits and less will be on the streets. This I don't agree with at all I think this only increases the chances of bystander injuries as inept vigilantes join into a firefight. We don't need wannabe "heroes" any more than we need wannabe "gangsters".
Don't duck and run. Ready, AIM, Fire! Hell No![/quote]



For the record I dislike the fact that guns exist, you don't hear much about children getting killed accidentally in a driveby knifing, nor do you hear many stories about a child accidentally beating themselves to death because a parent left the boxing gloves untended. But I do have respect for those who have taken the time to learn about them and to use and care for them responsibly. I wish that gun ownership was dependent on passing a strict course featuring all worst case scenarios of improper use and care and storage.

I also wish that gun manufacturers would have GPS chips imbedded in the weapons they produce. That way all firearms could be located and confiscated if not legally registered. Criminals wouldn't want to have guns if the gun would actually help the police locate them.
 

B_dxjnorto

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It takes significantly less commitment to kill someone with a firearm than it does to stab or beat someone to death.
You are thinking along the same lines as Male Bonding. And you can make dinner with a knife. A gun has only one use.

I also wish that gun manufacturers would have GPS chips imbedded in the weapons they produce. That way all firearms could be located and confiscated if not legally registered. Criminals wouldn't want to have guns if the gun would actually help the police locate them.
I've never heard this before. I did however read an article about a gun safety that would only respond to the owner's palm through some kind of fingerprint recognition technology.
 

B_spiker067

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With all the crazy civil rights stripping actions the Bush administration has taken in these last few years I have not been as worried as much as I should be knowing that the nation is in fact armed (Though I am greatly alarmed). We very much preserve our rights as well as the western world's this way. I wish all the ridiculous liberals (Rosie O'Donnel et al), who 7 or 8 years ago were calling for extreme gun control, would confess to their abject stupidity when they obviously thought that totalitarianism could not possibly happen here in the good ole U.S. of A.

Also, consider how just about every Israeli household has military grade weaponry in their home and yet we hear of no Columbines there (of course aside from the struggles going on there). Wonder why?

I would want one law though. The last registered adult to a gun's serial number should be held highly accountable for the consequences of the uses that weapon has been put to. You'll see gun dealers get a little more sober as well as some adults who resell at unregulated 'gun shows'.
 

Pirate Wench

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Doctors kill more people than guns.......malpractice....misread prescriptions (because even the pharmacist can't decipher his/her hadnwriting).....and more reasons.

Doctors kill more people per year than guns

http://www.mercola.com/2000/may/14/doctor_accidents.htm

I grew up in a house with guns cause my dad hunted.
Only the 22 revolver that he had was not locked up when not in use and I never knew where he had it in my parent's bedroom.....but then I didn't care either.
Learned basic gun safety in Jr. high when I helped him clean a few of his rifles after he came back from hunting a few times.

Now I have the guns hubby and I have bought, plus my dad's.

Guns that are properly handled and/or secured are not a threat to anyone.....except maybe a burgler.

I don't have a license to carry......just hasn't been a big deal to me to be able to carry one around.
 

Rikter8

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Gillette,

I respect your point of view, and understand where your coming from.

I grew up around firearms, and learned to respect them for what they were.

The Kick: Depends on the caliber and grain load your shooting. Yes, you can fracture your wrist using a hot load, and a fair size caliber weapon this way. Most (Not all) guns on the street that you see are 9mm's and the like. Not many criminals are walking around with a .44 Mag. (Weight and size - harder to hide)

Training and Care - I can agree 100% to the comment of lower crime in countries/areas that have mandatory gun training.
My opinion is, if your filling out paperwork to purchase a firearm (Hand or Long Gun) You should also have a form for taking a basic training class for a firearm.
Im not sure if you have to go as much in depth as a CCW class, but It WOULD be beneficial.

Shooting Back - This needs to link with my comment about 'If you pull to use". Obviously if your in a predicament where you can't shoot, then you cant.
But, this again is where Training plays a MAJOR part.
Have You ever taken a Hunters Safety Class? Or ever been target practicing?
People that who have been around firearms, or that have some sort of Basic training (hunter safety, CCW..etc) already know when to draw, and when to duck.

GPS Chips - Sorry dear, but what a Horrible idea. Not only would it make firearms more expensive, it would be completely in-effective.
All you'd have to do is simply dissasemble the firearm, and pull it out.
Unless you were thinking putting it inside the wood stock.... but that can be replaced too..

Seriously...take a hunters safety course... I think all women AND men would benefit from it. Avaliable now from your local MOOSE lodge :)
 

Rikter8

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Doctors kill more people than guns.......malpractice....misread prescriptions (because even the pharmacist can't decipher his/her hadnwriting).....and more reasons.
.

Yes, agreed. A "Doctor" is who took my father away from my family.

And the laws are Limited on what you can do about it too...:mad:
 

socoken

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You are thinking along the same lines as Male Bonding. And you can make dinner with a knife. A gun has only one use.

I've never heard this before. I did however read an article about a gun safety that would only respond to the owner's palm through some kind of fingerprint recognition technology.

Ive used my guns to GET dinner, and for recreation. Marksmanship skills are hard to acquire, but a lot of fun to learn. There are shooting events in the Olympics, so touting that the only reason guns exist is to shoot people is a stretch.


The idea of the government being able to locate all guns might seem plausible, if you trusted the government to never abuse this sort of power. Sure, short term it might help, but 10 years from now somebody might get the idea to take them all away.
 

Hatched69

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Let's see how folks who dislike firearms feel when their feeling of security is compromised within their own home and the situation comes down to "your/your family's lives or the intruders" On average it takes 8 minutes for the police to arrive on scene. It takes less than 2 minutes to murder an entire family that has no defense. Pepper spray and other "humane" deterrents are a crock. That same criminal that might live and go to jail will likely be right back at your doorstep once he/she gets out of prison - if they are even sentenced to prison time at all. My stance is, if you come thru my doors/windows uninvited and intend to violate me or my family (I really don't give a damn what your intent is) you will be staring down the barrel of a shotgun (at this point I will have no hesitation to pull the trigger) and if you don't go back from whence ye came, you'll be going home to mother in a cardboard box.
Guns have their place, unfortunately it's the irresponsible owners/users who have given firearms a bad name. Don't condemn every gun owner for their views on guns. Some of us ARE responsible and pray we never, and I mean NEVER need to use them to take another life, animal or human.
 

D_N Flay Table

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"I don't have to be careful, I've got a gun!"

"When I held that gun in my hand, I felt a surge of power...like God must feel when he's holding a gun."

" A gun isn't a weapon, Marge... its a tool... like a butcher knife or a harpoon or... or... an alligator.
you just need more education on the subject."


thank you Homer J.
 

B_spiker067

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Just a little tiff with Hezbollah now and again.

I made a note of that in the post when I said

(of course aside from the struggles going on there).

Why did you feel compelled to say something when I had already mentioned it? There were several years of 'peace' and they had no 'Columbines' the question still is why are American children going ape shit? They didn't 1900's-80's and there were plenty of guns in homes at that time, especially in rural and suburban areas.
 

madame_zora

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I've stayed on the outside of the gun issue, because I really haven't had a strong opinion. I am personally uncomfortable around guns, because I have no training, and I've seen way too much of what guns in the hands of idiots can do. In the last year alone, I've seen five (count 'em, FIVE) shootings in Columbus Ohio in various strip clubs where I sell my costumes.

I fucking hate them, and I hate the morons who have so little imagination that they can't find anything better to do in a goddamned STRIP JOINT than to shoot each other, but that's what they seem to want to do. In addition to those five, I also had a home invasion earlier this year (which prompted yet another move) where I was held at gunpoint for over twenty mintues while two other thugs trashed my place looking for my non-existant money or drugs. I probably have ptsd from all this shit, so if you ever wonder why I'm pissed all the time...

Anyway, I think a lot of it has to do with the marriage of our society (capitalist) and drugs. Drug dealers buy their way around our laws to get their shit in, and our government capitalises on in by prosecuting end users. Crack has no social or medical application- it's a one way ticket to death, be it slow or fast. No one improves their life by using it, and no one gets off of it unscathed. I've seen pretty girls turn to shit in under a year because of it, and I blame a lot of the increased violence in recent years on a combination of things: drugs, poverty (which makes people more likely to take shortcuts to making money, like selling drugs) and social disconnect.

Gun laws won't disarm criminals. It would seem more beneficial to prosecute gun crimes more stringently. If someone wants to defend their right to use their guins in a lawful manner, I have no problem with that. If someone is convicted of a crime in which a gun was used in an unlawful manner, then the punishment should carry a lot of time. Any unlawful gun use should equal attempted murder- because that's what it is.

I would like to see a potential gun owner have to take a course on gun safety during the waiting period, and have to pass a general shooting test to prove they are capable of operating the thing. Anyone not having taken that course would get a stricter charge if caught with one. That would cut down on the stupid deaths that occur from guns being discharged in homes because of negligence, which is a higher number than people like to discuss. People have to take a course to drive a car, I see no reason why owning a deadly firearm should be less serious.

But I wouldn't limit gun ownership. There may in fact come a time when we DO need to form a state militia, and I would want my state to be ready (no worries, haha). Plenty of Log Cabin Repubs out here. How do you think I'll look in flannel?
 

Hatched69

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edit H69
Gun laws won't disarm criminals. It would seem more beneficial to prosecute gun crimes more stringently. If someone wants to defend their right to use their guins in a lawful manner, I have no problem with that. If someone is convicted of a crime in which a gun was used in an unlawful manner, then the punishment should carry a lot of time. Any unlawful gun use should equal attempted murder- because that's what it is.

I would like to see a potential gun owner have to take a course on gun safety during the waiting period, and have to pass a general shooting test to prove they are capable of operating the thing. Anyone not having taken that course would get a stricter charge if caught with one. That would cut down on the stupid deaths that occur from guns being discharged in homes because of negligence, which is a higher number than people like to discuss. People have to take a course to drive a car, I see no reason why owning a deadly firearm should be less serious.

But I wouldn't limit gun ownership. There may in fact come a time when we DO need to form a state militia, and I would want my state to be ready (no worries, haha). Plenty of Log Cabin Repubs out here. How do you think I'll look in flannel?


Good points and ideas. Too bad we are simply "wishful thinking". There's neither enough willpower (read: money) from the "government" or enough police manpower to actually bring this into effect. Plus, you'd plug up the court system so quickly......
Again, it's the irresponsible users/owners that screw things up for the responsible owners.:mad:
As far as training, you're dead on. If you own a firearm, you'd be well advised to know how to use and properly service it, and most importantly, how to properly protect yourself and your family. Note I said PROPERLY.
I have fired my firearms only in practice (sharpshooter, thank you very much) and pray I never see it used in defense of my or my family's life. Which, I might add, is the primary purpose I own mine. :smile:

Oh yeah...flannel.....love to see it...!!!
 

socoken

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Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.

Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.

Keep the weapon on SAFE until you intend to fire.

Keep your finger strait and off the trigger until you intend to fire.

Know your target and what lies beyond.
 

Hatched69

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Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.

Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.

Keep the weapon on SAFE until you intend to fire.

Keep your finger strait and off the trigger until you intend to fire.

Know your target and what lies beyond.

...and the consequences of your actions...
 

madame_zora

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Good points and ideas. Too bad we are simply "wishful thinking". There's neither enough willpower (read: money) from the "government" or enough police manpower to actually bring this into effect. Plus, you'd plug up the court system so quickly......
Again, it's the irresponsible users/owners that screw things up for the responsible owners.:mad:
As far as training, you're dead on. If you own a firearm, you'd be well advised to know how to use and properly service it, and most importantly, how to properly protect yourself and your family. Note I said PROPERLY.
I have fired my firearms only in practice (sharpshooter, thank you very much) and pray I never see it used in defense of my or my family's life. Which, I might add, is the primary purpose I own mine. :smile:


Ha, most of our conversations here are wishful thinking, but lest anyone say we aren't offering ideas, I offered one.

Guns don't bother me in the hands of people who know how to use them, and have respect for what they do. It also helps if they are not drinking or using drugs at the time. Sadly, so often, neither of these things is the case. I don't know how to get them out of the hands of crackheads, hotheads, idiots, people with anger management issues and drunks (or combinations of the aforementioned) without punishing the crimes harder. Yes, it would tax the system. The alternative is to leave them free. Not such a good option either. I'm open to suggestions.