Gunman kills 22 at US college

[HazelGod]

Can you honestly say that this level of carnage would be possible if the shooter had instead been armed with knives?

Can you honestly say that this level of carnage would be possible if even ONE of the victims had been armed himself?

And if you think I'm talking out of my ass, take a look at the FBI's annual reports on violent crime in states that have enacted concealed carry laws.

An armed populace is the best deterrent against armed aggression of any kind, whether it originates from a corrupt government or from rogue citizens such as today's incident. This is the reason the right was explicitly enumerated in the first Constitutional revision...second only to the rights to freedom of speech/press/peaceful assembly.

You think that shit going on in Iraq would fly over here? No friggin' way. The first "death squad" fucktards that showed up in my neighborhood would suffer a lethal dose of #00 lead poisoning.

 

[freekobot]

a quarter past 7 he shoots his girlfriend and residential advisor dead. then over 2 and a half hours later, he shot 50 more people. ImageShack - Hosting :: campusmx7.jpg

from west aj to norris hall. you think the school or law enforcement would have locked down the school or figure out where the shooter was sooner than 2 and a half hours. gun control was not the problem.

 

[gketwin73]

Can you honestly say that this level of carnage would be possible if even ONE of the victims had been armed himself?

And if you think I'm talking out of my ass, take a look at the FBI's annual reports on violent crime in states that have enacted concealed carry laws.

An armed populace is the best deterrent against armed aggression of any kind, whether it originates from a corrupt government or from rogue citizens such as today's incident. This is the reason the right was explicitly enumerated in the first Constitutional revision...second only to the rights to freedom of speech/press/peaceful assembly.

You think that shit going on in Iraq would fly over here? No friggin' way. The first "death squad" fucktards that showed up in my neighborhood would suffer a lethal dose of #00 lead poisoning.

I have a CWP and will not hesitate to use the GLOCK that I carry against some would be criminal that walks into my path. I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. That is my policy on this violence issue. 2 in the chest and if that does not stop em raise up about 1/2 inch and put 1 in the head.
End of story and fight.

 

[fizzyjizz]

Whilst i do think that stricter gun laws would help the problem (obviously, less guns means less shootings) i dont think it would completely solve the problem. There are countries where there is a larger percentage of people owning guns (Canada and Switzerland for example) but they dont have this problem. In most other countries this problem is not only rare but completely non-existant. I dont see people in more democratic countries such as the Uk or other European nations crying out for the right to bare arms. Its a ridiculous argument. I do believe, however, that the gun laws arent the only problem here, there seems to be something fundamentally rotten at the core of Amreican society that makes people want go go out and shoot strangers who they have never met...

 

[mindseye]

I have a CWP and will not hesitate to use the GLOCK that I carry against some would be criminal that walks into my path. I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. That is my policy on this violence issue. 2 in the chest and if that does not stop em raise up about 1/2 inch and put 1 in the head.
End of story and fight.

Oh, you are so fucking macho. Virginia allows its colleges and universities to decline to honor carry permits -- this policy withstood a court challenge in 2003. Please keep your glock off my campus; we've had enough gunfire here today.

 

[Heather LouAnna]

I don't own a gun. They scare me. I owned a gun as a child though and went hunting frequently.

You should treat the mental illness, not the weapon. It's something to be said about the culture.

 

[dong20]

I was reading several conflicting articles on the subject of gun control v crime before I posted this. Here are two that pretty much draw opposing conclusions:

The first is more a social commentary based on history, the second more statistical. One I find especially sad is then in the US, in fact in most countries in 1998 more people killed themselves than each other, This trend is especially pronounced in the former eastern bloc and, as well all know Scandinavia.

I don't know if it's significant that the two rates are closer in the US than just about any other nation, the exception being Barbados where they're identical. Source

Anyway.....

Do Guns Cause Crime?

and

Gun ownership is not the cause of America’s high murder rate

The 'gung ho - eat lead' comments posted are sadly, unsurprising but as it's getting late here, and I'm tired maybe I am not really reading the context properly.

 

[B_big dirigible]

Whilst i do think that stricter gun laws would help the problem (obviously, less guns means less shootings)

This is silly. You could wave a magic wand and decrease the number of guns in the US by something over 200 million, and still have more than enough to enable today's outrage.

 

[B_big dirigible]

Oh, you are so fucking macho.

Nothing at all wrong with macho, if it works.

 

[dong20]

This is silly. You could wave a magic wand and decrease the number of guns in the US by something over 200 million, and still have more than enough to enable today's outrage.

Well it only takes one BD, but that's hardly what was meant, as you well know.

 

[Rikter8]

Gun control does one thing:
Takes arms away from the honest man/woman to protect themselves, and their families.

The gangs will still get them, the kids will still trade them on the black market...
The problem will still exhist, and you'll make it worse because now NOBODY but the gangs/drug dealers, etc will have them.

Boy that's just genious isnt it? Might as well leave your doors unlocked for them while your at it.

If you were a purse snatcher, would you take from a woman with a visible holster strap on her side, or would you steal from the one that was un-armed?

Per background checks, I say let those whom qualify bear arms, and let them bear arms concealed.

This kid was obviously disturbed, and had alot of ammunition on him. It sounds like he planned it out, and executed his plans. I blame the Media and the parents.

One question in my mind....why didn't the students rush him, and subdue him/kill him? This is nothing new...why don't schools promote plans of attack if such a thing occurs.
Some dead/wounded would be better than 30 sum.
This bullshit of waiting for the police to take care of it allows these crimes to be happening over and over.
What are the police going to do when your entire student body is dead?
"Yep, he killed them all, but we shot him. Your tax dollars are being well spent. Sorry for your loss, remember to vote yes to the millage increase for police protection"

What a joke.

 

[B_young7.5]

Americans don't need to have guns. the second amendment was made because defence was mostly militia. NO MILITIA should equal NO ARMS. guns don't kill people people do? let's see someone kill that many ppl in a school with a baseball bat. i agree we should ask why ppl want to kill other people but first we should do some damage control and take preventative measures. allow those who qualify like canada.

 

[B_big dirigible]

Well it only takes one BD, but that's hardly what was meant, as you well know.

What I well know is that too many people confuse their own prejucides for useful commentary. The posted comment seemed terribly silly. I pointed out one reason why. Is there some non-silly way to read it? I have studied this topic intensively for many years, but it's always possible that I've missed something.

 

[Rikter8]

I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. That is my policy on this violence issue. 2 in the chest and if that does not stop em raise up about 1/2 inch and put 1 in the head.
End of story and fight.

I agree on the 12/6. But I don't agree with firing 3 times.

If your going to shoot with the intent to kill, you'd better make damned sure you kill him with the first shot, and it's to protect yourself or your family from harm.
Being in your home, if the purp. comes in with a firearm, you have the right to shoot him, as he is armed, and being in your own home which is classified as your last resort of retreat, you are legally within your limits.
When you go outside your home, however, It gets sticky.
Pulling a firearm on someone better be done in all seriousness, and life threatning situations.

Shooting with the intent to wound will only give the criminal your house/posessions for free. (Its happened before, and im sure it would happen again).

I've said it before here. Seriously...take a CCW class... Its seriously benefitial for all. Its generally taught by state police, or local, and they teach you your rights, and when/when not to.

They'll also tell you that you are on your own out there, and NOT to rely on the police to help you.

 

[Gillette]

Can you honestly say that this level of carnage would be possible if even ONE of the victims had been armed himself?

Yes.

The shooter had his weapon out and was trigger happy to begin with. He has the drop on anyone reaching for a weapon and the resistance offered would just likely aggravate him more.

Your concealed weapon is only of use to you if you can get it out, the safety off and pointed at him before he notices. I think if you'd been in that classroom you'd just be a victim with a gun in your hand. Presuming he didn't take it from your corpse as a back-up weapon for himself.

The hero complex is best left in the theatre.

 

[Deno]

that freaking statement people keep trying to make about a lesser weapon is without merrit. If someone wanted to kill alot of people why would they come with a knife or a baseball bat. No they'd make a nitrate bomb like nickols did. Or burn down an apartment building or someother sicko stunt. They certainly would not attempt a rampage with a ginsu knife or a bat.

 

[PacknThick]

Sucks this shit happens in this country, 2007.

 

[Gillette]

Nothing at all wrong with macho, if it works.

I can agree with this but the IF is a huge chance to take. But so often it can make a bad situation worse.

 

[B_big dirigible]

One question in my mind....why didn't the students rush him, and subdue him/kill him? This is nothing new...why don't schools promote plans of attack if such a thing occurs.

Well, to be fair, that takes organization and training. The tactic of rushing does work, but it's not a natural reaction. Similar assaults which have been successfully stopped by the would-be victims have invariably been stopped by armed individuals (and when I say "invariably", I mean that I can't remember a counterexample off-hand). The Appalachian School of Law shooting in Jan 2002 is a good recent example. The fact that the students who subdued the perp were themselves armed with guns was scrubbed from some 65-75% of the news stories. Pearl High School in 1997 is another good one. The perp in that incident was planning to go to the junior high school as well before the police could arrive, but that plan was foiled when he was stopped by the highschool vice principal and his gun - which of course he couldn't keep on school grounds. Apparently in Mississippi the parking lot doesn't count as "school grounds", so the vp had to go to the parking lot, retrieve the hardware, then go back onto school grounds to do his good deed.

 

[fortiesfun]

I hate to distract from the debate, but if I recall correctly we have a few members on this campus. Does anyone know their status and safety?