Gunman kills 22 at US college

[B_big dirigible]

I think that the majority of people who have them around are much more likely to have an accidental injury or suicide, or use them in a domestic dispute, than to ever in their whole life use them effectively for self defence. That is a fantasy.

You're a student of Arthur Kellerman, aren't you? He's the guy behind the "a gun is the home is 47 times more likely" BS factoid so beloved of the Brady Bunch.

Fantasy, indeed.

I've already cited the Orlando rape problem, and its magical solution, in another thread. Handgun defense only rarely involves shootouts. It seems to work, shootouts or no.

 

[fizzyjizz]

People here in europe just dont 'get it' We havent got the same love of guns as people in the US. Mabye people there think this absurd right for mentally ill people to bare arms is worth the lives of thousands of people per year.

 

[Ethyl]

This isn't CSI sweets.
That takes effort, time and money. That's an automatic no no.
If he's got a weapon in his hands, and he's laying dead on your floor, They'll bag em and tag em. Done.

Besides how many times you plan on shooting him?? LOL

If there's an intruder crawling through my window and I have a gun, I would shoot until he didn't get up again, however many times required. I've already experienced an intruder breaking into my home while I was there. I consider myself lucky that I escaped that situation in one piece. I wouldn't wait to see if my luck held out a second time.

 

[fortiesfun]

People here in europe just dont 'get it' We havent got the same love of guns as people in the US. Mabye people there think this absurd right for mentally ill people to bare arms is worth the lives of thousands of people per year.

A lot of people in the US don't get it either. The logic is always a little elusive. I never am quite sure why I should feel better about nuts having guns because some sane people might be nearby who could return the fire.

 

[Rikter8]

If there's an intruder crawling through my window and I have a gun, I would shoot until he didn't get up again, however many times required. I've already experienced an intruder breaking into my home while I was there. I consider myself lucky that I escaped that situation in one piece. I wouldn't wait to see if my luck held out a second time.

I'll take you out to the sand dunes. We'll set up a pair of those truck bull balls and work on your aim. No need for you to use up all your ammo.
Rodeo Riders and Fans, Bulls Balls for your Rigs. BullsBalls.com - Original Truck Balls !

Also, glad that you escaped, and glad that you are willing to defend yourself. So many women aren't, and thats really sad.

 

[fizzyjizz]

And how do you decide who's sane and who isnt? Especially in your country! No offence lol

A lot of people in the US don't get it either. The logic is always a little elusive. I never am quite sure why I should feel better about nuts having guns because some sane people might be nearby who could return the fire.

 

[B_big dirigible]

None of the articles show how a heroic armed civilian saved the day.

Which is exactly the point. There were heroic civilians on site, but by Texas law, their arms were in their cars, and therefore useless. One such, Suzanna Hupp, both of whose parents were gunned down right next to her, subsequently became active in politics. She was apparently fascinated by the tricks necessary to dodge all the little pitfalls thought up by those who didn't want her to testify about the experience - changing rooms for hearings at the last minute without notifying the witnesses, little things like that. Such testimony eventually changed Texas law, over Ann Richards's veto.

 

[dannymawg]

I say we all rent a really violent movie tonight!


That's where the disconnect in gun control is - not that "guns are bad", but that we overwhelm ourselves with "guns are good" messages in media.

Hard to shake that when war has been good for business for centuries.

 

[B_big dirigible]

People here in europe just dont 'get it' We havent got the same love of guns as people in the US. Mabye people there think this absurd right for mentally ill people to bare arms is worth the lives of thousands of people per year.

There are a lot of things different about America. We like it that way. The fact that some Euros find it puzzling doesn't bother us unduly.

 

[Nitrofiend]

I don't think there's any solution to be found here. The man was clearly disturbed and, like it or not, that's the reality. Sometimes these things happen. As for the question of knives, is it really a matter of how many lives saved? Insane murderers will continue to pop up every now and then. There's nothing that can stop it short of institutionalizing everyone.

 

[fizzyjizz]

i think it should bother you. These are lives we are talking about, lives lost so rednecks can go shooting because it compensates them for their miserable little lives

 

[Principessa]

My sympathy to the victim's families and friends. In a way, I am sorry the shooter killed himself - we might have known the motive. On the other hand...I'm glad the bastard is dead!

I totally agree with you!

I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

I concur.

a quarter past 7 he shoots his girlfriend and residential advisor dead. then over 2 and a half hours later, he shot 50 more people.

ImageShack - Hosting :: campusmx7.jpg
from west aj to norris hall. you think the school or law enforcement would have locked down the school or figure out where the shooter was sooner than 2 and a half hours. gun control was not the problem.

I have wondered about that also. Why were two murders not enough to put the university into lockdown status.
[quote=Heather LouAnna;785337] I don't own a gun. They scare me.
You should treat the mental illness, not the weapon. [/quote] I agree with this part of Heather LouAnna's quote. I grew up around guns because my dad and many of our neighbors and family were hunters. They hunted for food, not sport.

 

[rubberwilli]

Who had a shooting on their campus when they were in school. There was a shooting at Indiana Univesrity when I was there, two dead if I remember correctly. A graduate student's boyfriend drove in to surprise here and acuse her of cheating. She was studying in her room with a male graduate student friend, and they both died at the hands of the angry boyfriend. He escaped the building and was found in the shrubs of a house behind my dorm.

It's freaky when this happens on your campus. Rattles you and makes you think.

My heart goes out ot the students, teachers, parents and administrators. It's just a sucky situation all around.

 

[diamond]

First and foremost the victims and their families are in our prayers......Unfortunately being a native from Montreal we have witnessed our share of school shootings, First with Poly Technique, then Concordia University, and then Dawson College on Sept 13, 2006.

The gun shots, screaming kids, and the numerous amounts of 9-11 calls were about the only thing I can remember from that day. I was downtown that day, helping stranded college kids ( some with no shoes, some with bloody tattered clothes) get the necessary help. Most of them were in shock, crying and just wanting to let their parents know they were ok.

I tend to agree that it is not only a fire arms issue but rather an issue of dealing with mental illness.

Peace
Deb

 

[Gillette]

Which is exactly the point. There were heroic civilians on site, but by Texas law, their arms were in their cars, and therefore useless.

That wasn't mentioned in any of the articles I read. But again that relies on the would be hero having all the IFs in their favor. If they were spotted unholstering their weapon they just moved up the priority list of who to shoot next. Just because they had guns doesn't mean they'd have used them succesfully.

There are so many reasons why owning a gun shouldn't be a god given right. Poor eyesight, poor aim, poor training, poor temper, poor response to stress. Poor fucking judgement!

Not all guns used to commit crime are legally obtained, true, but many of them are. Or they were legal at one time. Legally sold to people too fucking stupid or irresponsible to keep them locked safely away from kids, people too stupid or irresponsible to take measures to prevent them being stolen or too stupid and irresponsible not to sell them illegally after the fact for their own financial gain.

For those who see the dangers and acknowlegde the inherent responsibilities associated with having a gun, I'm fine with them owning them. But for those who feel everyone should have guns because a piece of paper says so and they do a great John Wayne immitation I hope they swallow the barrel.

And I'm less than impressed with the argument skills of any who have answered (or more to the point failed to answer) my question with a question of their own or side issues.

Yes or No, please.

 

[Ethyl]

There are so many reasons why owning a gun shouldn't be a god given right. Poor eyesight, poor aim, poor training, poor temper, poor response to stress. Poor fucking judgement!

Amen.

For those who see the dangers and acknowlegde the inherent responsibilities associated with having a gun, I'm fine with them owning them. But for those who feel everyone should have guns because a piece of paper says so and they do a great John Wayne immitation I hope they swallow the barrel.

I don't own a gun but if I bought one the first thing i'd do is learn how to use it while reducing the chances of hurting myself or other unintended targets. Guns aren't designed to wound but to kill. A gun shouldn't be handled if the person doesn't intend to kill someone else with it. Something to think about before you buy one. Too many ignorant people own guns. They don't know how to use them and they watch too many movies. The right to bear arms carries a huge weight of responsibility and too many people refuse to take it seriously. Shame on them. Life is too precious.

I know that if I owned a gun and had to use it to defend myself, I could do it.
However, I don't own a gun because I still wrestle with that knowledge and just because i'm able to defend myself doesn't mean I want the responsibility of ending someone else's life. I still wrestle with this knowledge about myself, which is why I don't own a gun.

 

[kalipygian]

You're a student of Arthur Kellerman, aren't you? He's the guy behind the "a gun is the home is 47 times more likely" BS factoid so beloved of the Brady Bunch.

Fantasy, indeed.

I've already cited the Orlando rape problem, and its magical solution, in another thread. Handgun defense only rarely involves shootouts. It seems to work, shootouts or no.

Sorry, never heard of him. My own experience. I live in a place (Alaska) where
in most of the state, hunting is a necessity, not just recreation, so gun ownership is high. Still, many more people own guns for reasons of self image than actually bestir themselves to go out and hunt.(dragging a ton of dead moose through peat bogs and alder thickets is not my idea of fun)

When I was a kid on Kodiak island in the 60's, it was usual for kids to have their own rifle, as young as 9, to carry it constantly, and shoot anything that moved, sea lion, sea otter, deer, rabbit, weasel, beaver, land otter, seagull, raven, eagle, or whatever. There used to be a $3. bounty paid by the state for a sea lion nose, or bald eagle feet, so it was a bit like collecting soft drink bottles. And some things that didn't move, such as signs.
I don't recall anyone I know personally using a gun for self defence.
There are plenty of bears where I live, a guy who lives about 3 miles away shot one a few years ago on his place, supposedly it was after his goat, but more likely he just wanted to shoot something. Bozo's with guns are more of a danger than bears.

 

[representin]

its really sad. there are people with so many problems and when they can get they hands on guns so easy it doesnt help.

 

[Pumblechook]

I see lots of "well if people weren't allowed to own guns, people wouldn't die by guns" opinions flying around and would like to comment on the complete falseness of that statement.

Just because something is illegal doesn't mean that people won't do it. In fact, many types of weapons, drugs, prostitution, etc., are all illegal but still happen all the time. No matter what you do as far as "allowing" people to have guns or not, people will have them. Criminals will always have a way of getting what they want - there is always a black market. So, in fact, it is less safe to outlaw guns completely, because in that case ONLY criminals will have guns. It's better to have everyone with them than only the misusers.

I have no interest in owning a gun/weapon and very likely never will. I also see gun control as a dead issue for the mere fact that there is no answer for it. The only true solution to guns would be the ability to go back in time and stop them from ever being invented and also somehow prevent them from ever existing in the future. It would seem in the present day that there are zero odds that anyone will ever be able to do this.

The misuse of weapons is better viewed, perhaps, as the burden of proper gun owners, the survivors of misuse, and the unaffected humanity as a whole. The reward and responsibility of what we bring into the universe cannot be escaped.

 

[BIGBULL29]

I quickly went over the posts of this thread. There is no quick-fix.
We aren't talking about gang violence here. These are unpredictable, sporadic incidences usually involving a person who has gone mad. Taking guns away from rednecks is not the answer.

The most interesting point raised on this thread is that idea of bearing arms for self-defense. As much as I try to understand that point of view, I'm afraid it's flawed. Why? I don't live in an anarchical society. If I have to carry a gun around to protect myself, I think it's time to leave the country.

Personally, I hate guns. I do not want to know anything about them.

I am NOT a supporter of the NRA.