Guns, Gun control, America and the 2d amend

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Mylor Mentallydaft, Jun 13, 2009.

  1. D_Mylor Mentallydaft

    D_Mylor Mentallydaft Account Disabled

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    2 threads centering around guns and gun isses caught my eye today and there were so many well informed people but for every one of em there were 3 people with their head in the sand and a few who just applied “COMMON SENSE”……. and made apoint as she useually dose, but as a cop's son and inactive military let me throw in my 2 cents by responding to the quotes that stood out

    ...............................

    “The right should be abolished. You can say what you want, but there is no need whatsoever to have a gun. And if you think there is...then the law enforcement isn't doing their job! “
    First off, the word should is for mothers and dying folks, but anyway, when monster breaks into your house and cripples you and is sexually assaulting your wife/partner.... kids, parent.....if john Wayne who everr walks in with that big evil gun in hand, are you REALLY gonna tell him theres no need to have that, he should wait for the police while you watch the guy shoot one on mom? doubt it…….. our current leaders are working toward the OHHHH SO ENLIGHTEND ENGLAND’S standard of a living big brother program, but until we have all our rights stripped away, we need to hang on to that as long as we can.

    “The vast majority of illicit guns in México come from the US” the vast majority of the illicit DRUGS in this country that the people get killed over come FROM!!!! Mexico, we’re even….

    “Right now, a tremendous number of crimes are solved every year simply because MOST guns have been registered.” ………. AHHHHHH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHA HA HA HAHA AHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!!!! man, dig in your ass and pull me out this b.s "TREMENDOUS NUMBER"...... I have dozens of guns, and out of the 60-70 I have, you know how many are registered? 4….. A fully automatic AK-47 I brought home, a colt M4, an M249 SAW and my M203 (grenade launcher)….. And the ONLY reason they are registered is because they have to be or its time in club fed. The spun shit you are referring to is the little know fact that any gun assembled in the u.s is test fired and the round is collected and # and the markings are sold to the fbi,atf,nsa,cia,cid and socom crime labs....but sorry, Not local P.D, they get to wait in line and it costs em 5500 dollars and about 6-10 weeks to have a bullet pattern speced EVERY time they do it, lot of trouble and money, police, courts, lawyers it all ads up…....... and MOST violent crimes are not committed against people that matter in the eyes of the budget committee. so that victim's name gets a baby snot green detective for about 3 days then a nice spot in the bottom of the stack. If you don’t hear about it on the news, it doesn’t get investigated, sorry. just filed as one of those numbers you like to throw out in the big pile of "who cares" so get to me as asson as you can with that "tremendous number" of registered guns that can some how lead to the guy who stole it used it and dropped it in a sewer grate.....

    “As much as I don't agree with it, I do understand the right for people to own guns. I just wish they would put stricter guidelines on those that actually want to buy them. Getting a gun and/or license to own one should be as difficult as getting a driver's license “ my pot head cousin got his driver’s license last week… took 4 hours….. in Fulton co G.A (Atlanta) the avg wait time on a carry permit is 1-2 years. but the folks who go out and rob stores... don't wanna go puttheir finger prints on file.... get me?

    “Gun ownership should also be a right that is repealable on an individual basis, especially if the person in question has done prison time. That way, irresponsible people would have a harder time obtaining one, preventing some aspiring 50 Cent, gangsta-wannabes from getting any wild ideas.” Can’t have a gun if you’ve been to prision for a felony OR if you have ever been found guilty in your whole life of domestic abuse…. And yeah…. Let’s take rights away from ALLLLLLL the folks who say or do or even had “wild ideas” we don’t understand, thats the america i want! the bill of REPEALABLE RIGHTS!

    “people are not knifed down on a regular basis and the victims are usually others that carry them....it’s not innocent people being killed en mass” there are 100 stabbing and cuttings for every ONE G.S.W admitted to any hospital in this country… and they are rarely fatal……..and WOUNDED doesn’t get you to get off MySpace and watch the news so they don't report it, it dosen't happen, because to kill a person with an edged weapon it requires
    A) a skill and knowledge of human anatomy that is difficult to grasp when you are too drunk off colt 45 to stand as in most stabbings
    B) a knife sharp enough with a tempered blade that can maintain an edge past the 5 P.S.I it requires to sever human connective tissue and flesh and not slide into your plam while you're in the act.
    C) A brutality to do it which is in us all, but also a coldness to stay calm in the act….. not many people have it, and the ones that do don't get caught

    “Sometimes people live so far from (or in the case of some parts of Los Angeles: so near to) law enforcement that response can take hours (or never arrive at all)” California has the strictest and most outrageous gun control laws in the country… still one of the leaders in G.S.Ws…… I guess it’s only THERE taking guns away from the people who get the permits and actually DO register the guns WON’T stop criminals from committing crimes, RIGHT
    ………………
    Then there was the tragic shooting at the holocaust museum …….. I didn’t see it as anti Semitic just an old man who, like at the ins place a few months ago, had enough tactical knowledge to grasp fish in a barrel, if the man was affiliated I do apologize sincerely but that’s just what I first said to myself….. But some of the quotes that caught my eye were..

    “They just reported on the network news that hate groups are on the rise since 2000 by a significant percentage, Sheesh I coulda told 'em that back in '07.” :shocked1: They sure did! And back about ehh 6 years ago the "network" reported that sadam had WMD’s that turned out to be a building we knew was just warehouses before we went… I know I was there;..... you buy everything that idiot box tells you and it always earns its name sake….
    “Chances are they do have members in the police and even possibly the military.
    Existing in a predominately white society makes it easy for them to hid in plain sight”.
    Conspercy theory!....you're telling us you thing the police, in the city controlled by the biggest threat to the second amendment in history her highness Pelosi, would let even the SLIGHTEST possibility of a lunatic who just validated her argument with bloodshed on one of the most powerful minorities on earth run off int he north GA mtns?? A cop can have his views and a cop can have his hang ups, when the call goes out “signal 001” that means chief’s office/city hall…. And if you fuck up, it’s your pension, your job, your career and most likely JAIL TIME if even one janitor ever heard you use the word Jews and them in the same sentence…..look at the 96 olympics suspect, no cop is going to risk that, i know, I was raised by one.
    …………..
    bottom line….. njq said it……they aren’t gonna take our guns away, it wouldn’t be possible. We are a nation of warriors with varied degrees of skill, that thrives on war, half of em were for NO REASON AT ALL, but within 8 years of them ending every time we experienced decades of the highest prosperity to date……. We are Rome, and we cannot be disarmed…. BUT, flash suppressors, chrome bolts and barrels, hi-cap mags, tactical accessories and high impact rounds will be limited to law enforcement only, they can't force us to surender our property...
    If there is some magic way to take every gun on this earth away from the people who would do harm with them, after you box up theirs, come get mine, I hate guns, hate bullets even more but as long as I need em I’ll keep till you take em…..Sorry to rant but i was sober for a year, humor methis was all building up, and besides who’s gonna read it ?
     
  2. D_Kay_Sarah_Sarah

    D_Kay_Sarah_Sarah Account Disabled

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    Fact is yes guns are a problem, and they do add to society's problems. But you cant penalize every gun owner because some moron uses it for the wrong reasons.

    If they were going to ban guns they would have to ban knives and every other item that can be used as a weapon.
     
  3. FuzzyKen

    FuzzyKen New Member

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    I am a gun person. I support and encourage gun ownership and even more I encourage gun safety and training period. I in fact feel that it should be a required subject in school systems. I am NOT advocating "hands on" shooting on a range, I am advocating an education on weapons, weapon laws and the penalties for illegal use of firearms and I feel that this should be started at a young age. I include discharge of firearms in the air on the 4th of July by drunken morons and the legal penalties if one of those slugs does damage.

    Guns in and of themselves are benign chunks of metal. They have no power to do anything on their own. It takes a person to place a clip in an automatic or to load a revolver, rifle or shotgun.

    In the State in which I live and the area in which I live civilians with guns in holsters on display are common place. Law Enforcement officers here think nothing of it. There are places where these are forbidden of course, but, in many places such as a feed store or on a ranch this is common.

    The strange thing is that in spite of being within 35 miles of the Mexican border our crime rate is very low in comparison to most cities of a similar size and population.

    Here, because hunting and fishing are favorite pursuits of people, children are taught how to shoot and must be certified by a State Certified Gun Safety inspector before being granted a hunting license. The kids here know how to shoot and most are as capable and well trained because of the necessity on ranches as law enforcement or military personnel.

    When I moved here from California, this initially made me a little nervous, even me and I am a gun person myself. After some time to adjust, I have discovered this to be exactly the opposite of what I would have thought it to be.

    Where I live we don't have graffiti. It is not painted over, because it is not painted and things are not defaced in the first place. I do not see kids with ghetto blasters deafening people around them, I do not see obvious street gang members hanging around and making problems. Is it the presence of guns that eliminates this?
    I personally don't think so. Here people have the concept as a whole that making a living involves some kind of effort. The concept of junior getting a brand new car for his 16th birthday is out of the question, and the parents by percentage are more involved in the lives of their kids and take a look at what the kids are doing.

    I have lived here for a little over three years. To this very day, I can be driving down one of the farm roads in my pickup and people I have never met including law enforcement officers wave at me in a friendly way. I must admit that in the beginning this was also weird, but after living with this for a while, I am finding I like it.

    Sadly, we are going to have to move to a larger city about 70 miles to the east because of business, but, I have for the first time in years felt safe and know that I could walk down the main street of this town at 1:AM and I would make it from one end to the other (about 6 miles) and be safe from one end to the other.

    Guns are not the problem! People who want something for nothing are the problem!



     
  4. Drifterwood

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    I have guns. You are allowed guns in the UK. It is just that the controls are tight. We do this, with the full agreement of the majority of the people, in an effort to stop repeats of our Dunblane incident, where a gun nut walked into a junior school and blew away some beautiful young kids and their teachers.

    We decided that that was too high a price to pay.
     
  5. D_Mylor Mentallydaft

    D_Mylor Mentallydaft Account Disabled

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    i knew there were some heavy heavy restrictions but that you were allowed to have guns, and the arguement can be made that your crime rates are admeriable. but thats the same island that invented the glasgow smile..... personally i'll take the bullet lol

    to each his own, our current prez and puppeters are doing all they can to make us a socalist state..... let em try, after every revolution of this nation there are years of war and a rush of bad economy you NEED carter or an obama to show the lefties pink don't work, just like we needed a W Bush to shoe the righties that what ever color they fly don't work, gotta meet in the middle,BUT you can mess with my money you can mess with rights, if you try to take my guns away from me there is gonna be problems.... i am a law and order man who has all of these extreme things by jumping through all the proper legal hoops, had my local chief law enforcment office sign off on each, paid my 200 dollars and had hard pictures developed, filled out the forms and kept them in a disassembled state untill i was approved then i had my name and adress engraved on all the proper places. i don't NEED them, but i wanted em, i did right by em and i'm keepin em, david koresh (sp) can fuck up all he wants like the rest of the psychos, i obey the law, i will NOT be punished for doing so. course the fact that in london or metro london you can't drive a car 50 feet with out your location being recorded and you can't walk a single step in the city with out being recorded on camera... thats spooky

    I also agree any one who owns a gun should be made to go through atleast a 6hr safty and law course, i also think they should do the old national guard demonstrations like they used to at schools..... these damn kids now adays fall in love with the power and romantasism of these things with no concept of what it is to END some one totally.

    i love several of my guns (sounds corny as hell) the same way a samuri would love and respect his sword, if more people approached these with a reverence insted of lust for a status symbol we would be alot better off... but that the problem no one can fix...
     
  6. D_Mylor Mentallydaft

    D_Mylor Mentallydaft Account Disabled

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    all in the family had a famous gun episode "1600 people were killin this country last year with hand guns alone!" gloria said yo archie, to wit he replied "would ya feel betta if they was pushed outta windas liddle gurl?"
    we need to work on the people who use the force and leave the dead object alone.
     
  7. MarkLondon

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    The big difference between a gun and other weapons is that a gun can be used from a distance or a concealed location.

    It could be argued that a gun is a coward's weapon.

    They are also more prone to taking down bystanders than a knife or a club.

    UK police are not routinely armed. There are special armed response units that are called out when necessary. Most people brandishing a gun in public in the UK end up dead because the armed police are trained to shoot to "incapacitate".
     
  8. MarkLondon

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    It's a Glasgow kiss actually, so called because it's up close and personal. It can't be administered from across the street, a passing car, or atop a water tower.

    Urban Dictionary: glasgow kiss

    The European City of Culture 1990 also gives us the Glasgow shower (deoderant sprayed up the shirt), Glasgow toothbrush (chewing gum) and if you thought the Glasgow kiss was vicious and demeaning, try a Glasgow facial!
     
    #8 MarkLondon, Jun 14, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2009
  9. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    That's funny... in all my 36 years of living I've never had to worry about some monster breaking into my home, crippling me and sexually assaulting anyone. Is it due to fear that I may have a gun at home? Probably not, because they will most likely have their own (legally or illegally) and they would be conducting this act for more than just sport. I don't think the 2nd Amendment should be repealed... by all means, if you want to own a gun then do it. I just think that more regulation should be placed on it so irresponsible people don't get one.

    And perhaps a limit? I mean, these aren't baseball cards. I hear about some people's extensive collection of firearms and I can only imagine how paranoid these people can be.
     
    #9 B_VinylBoy, Jun 14, 2009
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  10. lucky8

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    WOW, those quotes are pretty funny. The "right to bear arms" isn't so much for protection from criminals as it is from the government. The "well regulated militia" part of the amendment is referring to our armed forces: army, navy, national guard etc. I really wish people would stop trying to 'interpret' this amendment, as it is blatantly spelled out exactly what the founding fathers meant in the ammendment itself.

    Furthermore, I believe we should allow the sale of fully-automatic weapons. Handguns, rifles, and shotguns are no match for the weapons our military possesses.

    If someone wants to commit murder, not having a gun isn't going to stop them.

    And why do people give a shit if Mexican drug dealers are killing each other? Isn't this country supposed to be 'anti-drug'? If they want to start solving the problem, they can build the fucking fence already. China could build a massive wall over 2,000 years ago, but we can't even build a fence today? Our government is pathetic (either that or they just don't care).
     
  11. D_Mylor Mentallydaft

    D_Mylor Mentallydaft Account Disabled

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    well first off, i've never been audited or run over by a truck, but i still pay my taxes and look b4 i cross the street, insane evil shit like that dosen't happen often but in 26 years i have needed my gun more times than can easily be counted, not a thing in the world wrong with being prepared

    how are they in diffrent from baseball cards? yes one CAN be USED to kill you, but if its your money, you jump through the ATF hoops and are a person who dosen't go out sticking up 7-11's whats it matter, a 20 thousand dollar baseball card is as pointless in world and an m-60 machine gun, but if its your money who cares, they both bring you pleasure..... and YEAH most folks with a gun collection my size ARE a little nutty.... but MOST armed robberies are committed by people with skin like yours, i don't naturally assume you're gonna go shoot a guy at the package store for scratch off tickets, so lets just lay off the digs and the "these people" talk
     
  12. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Ironically, you have a better chance of being hit by a car or audited by the IRS than to have some random thug pick your home and raid it for your valuables. As for being "prepared"... Sometimes, the best way to be prepared in this case is to not look like you have something worth taking. Living in the 'hood, you learn very quickly that the ones that criminals target the most are the ones who flaunt, brag and boast the most about what they have at home. Even their motives aren't as random as you make it seem. I guess I'm just lucky I never needed a gun to protect myself or the people that I care about the most.

    How nice, you answered your own question. :wink:

    I think there's a point in there somewhere...

    Touché. I have a strange habit of spending lots of money on anime & video games. In some ways, the things that pleased me when I was a kid still do up to this day.

    Now really, do you have to bring race into the picture? Please don't go down that path with me, because you will lose that argument. Badly.

    I made a silly comment about people who have collections of guns that are larger than most women's shoe collections and now you're going to make a comment about people who have "skin like me" and how they commit more armed robberies? Fine... have it your way. Perhaps I can send you this warning shot.

    Want to know the main differences between what I stated and what you spouted out in your blinded bout of bigotry? My statement remains color blind. You assumed that I was commenting on people of "your skin color", whatever that may be because I haven't even looked at your photo gallery, when in reality people of all races own guns. I know a few "brothas" who have extensive gun collections, all legal if I might add because I know you'd probably jump to another shallow conclusion about that as well as well, and I joke with them about it as well. It seems a person like you, who has always "needed a gun" for 26+ years are probably asking for your own trouble. Kinda like what you're doing with this very thread. Meanwhile, I have lived in the cities of Boston and New York all my life, cities that are no strangers when it comes to violence and people who are "strapped" and never needed to walk around with one in my own pocket or have one in my own home. Knock on wood, of course.

    Keep race out of this discussion. Believe me, you'll want to. I'm very relentless on those type of issues.
     
    #12 B_VinylBoy, Jun 14, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2009
  13. NEWREBA

    NEWREBA New Member

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    I think this should be more of states' rights issue because there are parts of the country where owning and using guns are a part of the culture. In other places it isn't. Also even though the Supreme Court has defined the Second Amendment more broadly, I personally don't think it refers to personal gun ownership. It really is about creating and arming militias that can defend against the government. But over time, this right has been extended to individuals by practice and history. I think it's interesting that the most conservative justices voted to interpret this amendment the way they did because it's not a literal reading of the original text.
     
  14. Mr Ed in Mass

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    Gun control is hitting your target.
     
  15. D_Mylor Mentallydaft

    D_Mylor Mentallydaft Account Disabled

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    no, thats shot placement.....

    well actually "shot placement" is the bullshit my jarhead buddies throw at me when they try to talk up thier 9mm (granted all steel) pea shooters they get saddled with and are too cheap to send off for a uniform reg sig or H&k

    ...... my point being gun control and shot placement are both bullshit....
     
  16. D_Mylor Mentallydaft

    D_Mylor Mentallydaft Account Disabled

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    umm no.... something like 2 in 10 people get randomly audited in their lives 1 in 6 is the victim of some type of auto colision....

    AND there IS point, responsable people should be allowed to BE responsable for dangerous things. as for the military grade stuff unless you have about 12 hours with a cutting torch the ability to get past me and in my home its not gonna be on the street or any other gun i own, and most violent crimes are commited with cheap low cost weapons and by people who can't afford or have no connection to folks who sells belted 7.62 bullets or 40mm gernades, the people who can get those, don't need to steal my guns, and don't kill folks on our soil......
    a baseball card collection can't kill you, but just like your japanese cartoon collection it is something that brings me pleasure and set me at ease.

    didn't mean to "bring race into the picture" in a negative way, mearly as an instant observation made on a person i knew nothing about to help you relate to a point quickly in a post, in a post where you generalized a group of people i am included in in a negative way. I supose i did assume you weren't insecure about your skin color, and if i touched a sore spot i'm sorry. but i didn't exadurate or make a bigoted statement, race is a fact just like age is. and it is a fact that inthe united states of america 81 or 82% of all armed hold ups are commited by african american males between the ages of 14 and 30, look it up if you like, its no more damning to you than the fact that 98% of serial killers are white is to me.

    not gonna get into a race discussion with you, not gonna rattle off the names of black friends or rap artists i like or any of the white guilt back pedeling cause it's pointless.

    OHH...and I have needed the gun for 6 years, not because i have insecurity with penis size or something, but for the past 6 years i've been in and out of a sandy inferno and trapseing around the muggy shit smelling cities and jungles of south america with literally armies of people who were paid or coerced to kill me. i dunno if you ever had someone try (not threaten, TRY) to kill you, but it leaves a mark. plus the whole friends dying in your arms, loss of identity, disassoication of himanity schpeal, but you've seen robin williams say that shit before, you got it as much as you're gonna. at the end of the day when you limit a group of people from something they want out of fear, that is simple intollerance. another word for simple intolerance... save you the time .... it's bigotry, and me and the rest of "these people" don't like being lumped in with a bunch fuck ups.
     
  17. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Link please... or did you dream up the statistic?

    Again, there's a point in there somewhere.

    Ah... that answer again.

    You obviously took offense to my silly comment about people who owned a lot of guns. Still, to instantly assume the issue of race and some blind stereotype because of it seems a bit extreme, don't you think?

    If you're thinking I'm one of those self-loathing African Americans then you're sadly mistaken.

    Oh? :rolleyes:
    Looks like someone hasn't heeded the warning...

    I do like how you tried to make yourself look "objective" by including a different statistic based on a different race, but I tend to take the color out of the argument altogether because as I stated before, using a person's skin color to overly generalize & stereotype is not only bigoted, it's discriminatory. I don't fall for those stats at ALL.

    So, let's look at your stats with no sources. See if you can follow:
    First, we look at the top ten cities: Top 10 Most Dangerous Cities in the United States - Associated Content

    This list shows ten cities that all have a much larger minority population. It makes sense that in these areas, most of the crime committed in these areas could be conducted by them. But as we already know from Census data, Blacks, Latinos and other minority groups do not make up the majority of Americans in this country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_(U.S._Census)

    So, let's now look at the actual crime itself: Armed Robbery.
    According to the FBI, there were 445,125 robberies (per 100,000 incidents) in the United States in 2007. Table 1 - Crime in the United States 2007

    In order for your statistic to ring true, you would have to prove that more than 365,000 of these were armed and by a minority. Something of which you've yet to prove, and I doubt that you can do. Time is limiting me from researching this subject any further (for now), but unless you can come up with a valid source of info for your stats (such as the FBI) then I'm gonna call bullshit on your beliefs here.

    You're right... it is pointless. I don't need to read a detailed list of tokens. Meanwhile, let it be known that my life partner of 5+ years is caucasion so I don't just toss these terms of racism without any real merit.

    Need we ask why you hang in the shadier parts of town?

    Like I said... I'm good at avoiding those issues.

    You're trying to teach me what "bigotry" means, yet you have no problem diverging into that same bigotry when trying to write off the majority of Armed Robberies as crimes conducted by black people. Seriously, do you read what you type sometimes? :rolleyes:
     
  18. midlifebear

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    Why the OP started this thread is beyond me. Presumably, his idea of happiness is a warm gun? Don't know.

    My only comments regarding gun ownership in the USA are: 1. It's supported by the second amendment, regardless how both gun fanatics and anti gun fanatics interpret it; 2. I believe EVERYONE be required to take a bullet in the leg or thigh (somewhere it won't cause permanent damage) as part of qualifying for a gun permit.

    Having been the recipient of three discharged weapons at three different times in my life it would be very educational for ALL gun owners to know what it feels like to have a discharged bullet penetrate his or her body.
     
  19. javyn

    javyn New Member

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    Most people don't realize the reason we are allowed to possess guns in the US is to leave the citizenry a means to fight the government if and when it becomes oppressive. The founding fathers were very forward thinking and very concerned about tyranny.
     
  20. SR_Blarney_Frank

    SR_Blarney_Frank New Member

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    Wow this is about the most tedious thread I've run across. Can't anyone make a point without writing an 852 word essay riddled with caps and smarmy hyperbole?

    Not to mention, there is no movement afoot to repeal the second amendment. Not clear why the NRA or other gun owners feel the need to ramp up the paranoia (a la 'my cold dead hands').

    That said, the right to bear arms is not unlimited. Why does everyone forget the phrase 'a WELL-REGULATED militia'? Tirades about protecting oneself from criminals or shooting trespassers have no basis in the Constitution.
     
    #20 SR_Blarney_Frank, Jun 16, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2009
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