Guns in schools

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by SpeedoGuy, Sep 19, 2007.

  1. SpeedoGuy

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    An Oregon elementary school teacher is suing the Medford School District for the right to carry a concealed handgun on campus. The school teacher, who remains known as "Jane Doe", wants to overturn a district policy against weapons on school premesis. The teacher claims to need a gun as protection against the stalking of her abusive former spouse.

    At issue is whether a school district can ban the holder of a concealed_carry_permit from carrying a gun to school. Oregon school district zero tolerance policies against guns have never been tested in court but in other states challenges to such bans have been mixed.

    Teacher's situation brings gun issue to fore

    Should school staff be allowed to carry concealed weapons on campus? Is it a good idea to have guns in the classroom? Comments?
     
  2. frizzle

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    Funnily enough, stupid shit like this never happens in the UK.
     
  3. Shelby

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    I vote yes.

    As it is the law tells her husband the one place he can be safe(r) should he decide to assault her.
     
  4. Shelby

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    People never get shot in the UK?
     
  5. D_Joseba_Guntertwat

    D_Joseba_Guntertwat New Member

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    I'm for gun control if it's done properly and thoroughly, which would be difficult in a country with so many weapons. Guns in classrooms is a recipe for disaster.

    However, I did hear recently that the state which has the lowest violent crime rate in the whole of the US (and a lower rate than the UK) is Vermont, which also has the least gun control. Then again, it also has no McDonalds restaurants, so they're probably a sensible bunch.
     
  6. HazelGod

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    Probably because you are apparently monopolizing the stupidity quota for much of the UK. :rolleyes:

    Would you mind spelling out that recipe, or at least pointing us to the cookbook your reading from?

    I'm actually for such a change in policy. I'm not sure what the qualifications for a CHL are in Oregon, but if they're comparable to ours here in Texas, then there is some assurance that the licensee is a responsible, educated, and trained individual. Unlike the defensive driving courses where the only requirement to pass is payment of your fees, CHL instructors routinely fail a statistically significant number of their students.

    In addition to state and federal background screenings, CHL applicants must be educated with regard to the laws governing appropriate use of force, including deadly force; and they must also demonstrate proficiency in the handling and usage of the weapon they're licensed to carry. Acceptance of a license also places the holder in a different legal category of accountability than the general population, similar to that of a peace officer. Because the CHL holder is known to be educated in the law, particularly around use of force, they are held to a higher standard of culpability and face harsher punishments for certain criminal infractions.

    I mention these things simply to dispel the "wild west" popular misconception that a CHL is an easily obtained rubber-stamp license that enables any random jackass to strap on a pistol and become an instant badass. The actual demographic profile of a typical CHL holder is a conscientious, responsible, law-abiding citizen.

    While I view absolute safety in any time and place as a dubious notion at best, I liken this idea to having armed sky marshals on commercial flights. The very idea that any flight might have one or more educated, armed, and trained passengers on board should deter virtually any malfeasance during its travel. The idea of a weapon-free zone only accomplishes one purpose: to tell a criminal instigator that he's in an place where he can inflict a tremendous amount of damage with little to no resistance.
     
  7. braumeister

    braumeister New Member

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    Should school be allowed to carry firearms? I think that's best left up to the administration of the school (both public and private). They know the staff best. My personal opinion is if you can trust them around children, why not trust them with a firearm?

    As for a good idea, I think a child that is old enough for formal schooling is old enough to be exposed to firearms safety training. In the United States, estimates of the number of firearms in private run as high as one firearm for every two people. Chances are very good an American will encounter a firearm at some point in his/her life. My opinion is children should be exposed as early as possible that a firearm is not a toy and should learn four rules:

    - Every firearm is loaded until you yourself have proven otherwise
    - Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot
    - Be aware of your target and what is behind it
    - Don't point a firearm at anything you don't intend to destroy/kill. You cannot recall the bullet once it is fired. No do-overs.

    So at the very least children of school age should learn firearms safety, either at home or at school.

    On a side note, I remember talking with a few former co-workers who grew up in Massachusetts (for those who don't know, the US state which probably has the strictest firearms laws in the country - Massachusetts comes closest out of all 50 US states to completely banning firearms) during the 1960's and 1970's. The ones who grew up outside Boston told me how they took rifles to school, left them in the principle's office, and then after school would ride around on their bicycles to look for places to go plinking. The one who grew up in Boston told me his high school had a rifle club and he belonged. Their rifles were stored at the high school. None of these guys reported any problems with firearms at their school.
     
  8. frizzle

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    Not as much as people like to think or as much as it happens in America. Guns find their way into every country, but legalising the every day public to have them is just pure stupidity.

    Ahh another pro-gun America. You're just a stereotype.
     
  9. earllogjam

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    A teacher packing a gun?

    Hey, it sure is a novel way of controling those unruly kids! I can just see her sticking the gun up a kid's nose and teething the words - "Make......my.........day."
     
  10. rexcasual

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    If she needs that level of protection then I'd want to be informed, as a parent, and exercise my right to move my kids to another school or alternatives. If a staff member's significant other is under a court restraining order I'd want to know that too.

    I know it's off topic, but I'd rather see her get a paid leave of absence than have a target of a known violent aggressor around my kids.
     
  11. Shelby

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    I guess it depends on where in the UK you're talking about. It appears your worst areas beat ours.

    It's becoming increasingly clear to me that conservatives have more faith in the common man in any number of ways than do liberals.
     
  12. HazelGod

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    While this is an excellent idea in its own right, I feel the need to make clear that this does not necessarily follow as a consequence of permitting CHL holders to carry firearms on school grounds.

    The concealed part of the CHL statues aren't just window dressing...there is substantial criminal liability for a licensee who fails to effectively conceal his firearm. Presuming that the teachers carrying weapons are complying with the laws granting their license, no students should ever be aware they are armed or otherwise "exposed" to firearms.

    Fixed that for you. Anyhow, your point being...?

    Apparent conformance to an archetype by the speaker in and of itself does not invalidate any assertions he makes.
     
  13. viking1

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    Of course! Liberal=socialist. Socialism=government controlling everything with an iron fist...
     
  14. SpeedoGuy

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    And its become puzzling to me that conservatives suddenly seem to have so little faith in the ability of locally elected, locally accountable school boards to set local school policy. Remember, it was conservatives who campaigned for decades on a platform that featured decentralization of political power away from Washington DC and even state capitals. But whenever local policy collides with conservative ideals conservatives have no problem inviting Uncle Sam or the state legislature back into the picture.
     
  15. braumeister

    braumeister New Member

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    True... I was starting to ramble a bit there.
     
  16. viking1

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    It's not puzzling to me. ALL politicians, regardless of party or labeled philosophy, want two things: money and power. Anything that threatens their staying in power or staying rich will be dealt with accordingly.
     
  17. SpoiledPrincess

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    I really can't believe that you two have both broached the idea of teaching gun safety to kids of 4 and 5, kids that age can't control their temper tantrums let alone a gun.
     
  18. IntoxicatingToxin

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    I wonder what the legality is on stun guns? It's not a gun, but it's a good weapon. Get some mace or pepper spray and a stun gun, and you're set! My mom was married to an abusive alcoholic at one point, and she hated guns and didn't want to carry one... so she got a stun gun instead.
     
  19. B_New End

    B_New End New Member

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    Teachers should be able to carry a concealed weapon.

    In fact, I think anyone above the age of 18 should be able to carry a concealed weapon anywhere... including on an airline.
     
  20. B_New End

    B_New End New Member

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    Yes they can. Kids can be taught to respect a gun real easy. Give them a shotgun, let them fire it. The stomach punch they get will let them know it's not the toy they thought it was.
     
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