Guys Kissing

[sam_solo26]

I have know idea what or how you think, as your post is oddly worded and most confusing. I do sometimes find kissing in gay porn nice.

Thank you DC_DEEP, as usual you are the voice of logic and reason.

They aren't. The OP is confuzzled. :tongue:

I've already discussed this with Flashman in earlier posts on this thread. Obviously, there are people who believe people's sexualities are determined solely by their actions. I am not one of them, which is why I used the words "heterosexual men kissing" in my original post. I was also referring to a type of "straight-to-gay" fantasy really appeals to me. This is also outlined in one of my earlier posts, if your interested.

I suppose now would be a good time, if I have not done so already, to broaden the topic to just men kissing. It's still hot in my opinion, and I appreciate all of the links provided.

 

[D_Ollyvalle Treegirth]

Gay guys, I respect you and your decision on your sexuality, but that^^^^disturbed me.

I could not do that.

Mr Hardcock, I respect you too -- but your sexuality is not a decision.

 

[BigLittleMan]

this is a subject i try to avoid but, damn it, i just can't seem to help myself...

i won't go into whether i think two guys making out or having sex together makes them "gay" or not. whatever guys who do the gay-for-pay thing tell themselves to sleep at night is none of my business. however, i do think gay men who have "straight fantasy" are really just kind of sad.

i've had guys who were into me because they thought i was straight. flirting at the gym, at the grocery store, and yes, even gay bars (don't get me started on that illogical bullshit.) "let's go have a beer, let's hang out, blah, blah, blah..." however, once they learned i'm gay, total disinterest. you would have thought i had invited them over to fuck my grandma. and what's better, one as pissed off at me for "deceiving" him (actually happened.)

i believe it comes down to the simple fact that gay men believe straight men are better than they are, therefore somehow making them more desirable. and this whole thing of "something i can't have" is total "i'm not worthy" bullshit. i could just be a total egomaniac but i truly believe if i WORKED hard enough at it, i could have "sex" with just about any man i wanted. but why would i work for the "honor" of giving some asshole loser a blowjob for nothing in return?

and if you think about it, doesn't the fact this "straight" guy has sex with another guy make him kind of gay? uh, yeah.

(sorry for all the "quotes" but it's early.)

 

[clear]

Biglittle man, Wow!…

I think you are very much on to something here with this post/point. In fact, I would go as far as to say that you have touched on an issue that is very prevalent among the gay community, yet one that is also never really brought up in discussion. And that is this whole seditious superiority/inferiority complex gesticulated by a vast majority of gay men I have encountered (myself included- though to a more substantial extent then I am willing to admit). However, I would like to add one possible explanation to this condition as far as it applies to my human experience. And that is; as a gay man, I am attracted to “men”.

By “men” I mean a masculine human male devoid of any feminine “traits or attributes” (and, in a more abstract sense, that also includes/implies not liking other men also… but that’s a whole other can of worms, lol). This is because, as far as I observed, all the men I grew up around and or went to school with or got to know, were not “gay” men but “straight” men. And as logic and my own innate sexual attractions dictated, these would be the very same “types” of individuals I would be drawn to. In my case I don’t think it was about the whole superiority/inferiority complex per-se, but more about the byproduct of my environmental conditions. Or simply stated another way; A gay man trapped in a straight world. This was primarily the case with me exclusively when growing up and before I came to terms with my sexuality. Now that I have matured and become more comfortable and realistic about who I am, I have a much broader spectrum of attraction types. Yet I do not believe most of the gay men I encounter or that Biglittleman speaks about have grown out of that association. In fact I believe most have perverted it into the conditions he has encountered so frequently (and to a much greater extent, the type of conditions Flashy is detesting).

In any case, I do not want to stray too far from the original posters “revised” subject’s intent. And that is about men kissing men. For me, it is one of the most provocative, sensual, and fulfilling forms of communication and expression one could ever experience.

Respectfully, My Two Cents…


T.D.
Ciao-

this is a subject i try to avoid but, damn it, i just can't seem to help myself...

i won't go into whether i think two guys making out or having sex together makes them "gay" or not. whatever guys who do the gay-for-pay thing tell themselves to sleep at night is none of my business. however, i do think gay men who have "straight fantasy" are really just kind of sad.

i've had guys who were into me because they thought i was straight. flirting at the gym, at the grocery store, and yes, even gay bars (don't get me started on that illogical bullshit.) "let's go have a beer, let's hang out, blah, blah, blah..." however, once they learned i'm gay, total disinterest. you would have thought i had invited them over to fuck my grandma. and what's better, one as pissed off at me for "deceiving" him (actually happened.)

i believe it comes down to the simple fact that gay men believe straight men are better than they are, therefore somehow making them more desirable. and this whole thing of "something i can't have" is total "i'm not worthy" bullshit. i could just be a total egomaniac but i truly believe if i WORKED hard enough at it, i could have "sex" with just about any man i wanted. but why would i work for the "honor" of giving some asshole loser a blowjob for nothing in return?

and if you think about it, doesn't the fact this "straight" guy has sex with another guy make him kind of gay? uh, yeah.

(sorry for all the "quotes" but it's early.)

 

[B_Monster]

Kissing is EROTIC period, I don't care if its men, women or any combination of that. :biggrin1:

 

[B_becominghorse]

Kissing is EROTIC period, I don't care if its men, women or any combination of that. :biggrin1:

oh yes, baby...especially three mouths and tongues at the same time, and maybe a dick shoved into each one--one after another...not that I'd turn down three dick per one mouth, according to the dick quality...

 

[B_becominghorse]

sucking cock maybe but men kissing is just puke:biggrin1:

I feel just the opposite. For me, women are for fucking, not kissing. Men kissing is very, very sexy.

 

[sam_solo26]

What's wrong with kissing women?

 

[B_becominghorse]

What's wrong with kissing women?

Nothing.

 

[sam_solo26]

But you said women are for fucking and not kissing. I'm curious why they can't be for both, and maybe all that other pesky relationship stuff if you like.

 

[B_becominghorse]

But you said women are for fucking and not kissing. I'm curious why they can't be for both, and maybe all that other pesky relationship stuff if you like.

I didn't mean it all that seriously, was just contrasting with the poster who said he could 'see many sucking but not kissing. Puke!' I thought that was unnecessary.

 

[sam_solo26]

Gotcha. I also thought of another appeal for the "straight guy" fantasy: loneliness. By imagining that heterosexual men could engage in homosexual acts, then one can imagine they are not as alone as they probably feel. Living in a world where supposedly only around 5% of the population could be attracted to you is a major morale killer. It's quite a reality, and fantasizing that it's not really around 5% is a natural psychological self-defense mechanism.

 

[D_Walt_Whipman]

Sam,
Just wanted to thank you again for your advice and I definitely recognized your humor as such. It is painfully obvious that someone is working through some major violation issues and you were apparently the "target du jour". And bravo for your graceful response.
Rob

Okay... Well, somebody hates me without knowing the intentions, histories, and thoughts behind my posts. I don't know if it's just Flashman that got this from my posts or if many others got it, but:

1. I did not want to imply in any way that you "force" yourself on someone who isn't receptive. I thought that was assumed here, but I guess I have to state it for all to read. I think obviously, or at least respectfully, talk should be involved before any sexual act. That should take care of about 90% of Flashy's criticism.

2. The "find a gay person comment" was a throw-away joke. Sorry it didn't work for you.

3. The "insecure humanity" comment was made on my own line of thought about kissing someone who had previously consented but afterward regrets their decision and decides to take it out physically and/or emotionally on you. I was not saying it without a doubt would happen. I was saying that it is a very real possibility. That you did not react that way during your traumatizing event shows that you are a considerate person, and I respect that. But there are many people, mainly guys unfortunately, that would not react that way, even during a consentual sexual/intimate act and especially when it's not consentual (in which case such a reaction is not justifiable but more understandable).

4. You are right that in that I should have used either a more neutral word, or more words, when I said "expressing love", although I think it could be argued that sexuality is a form of love and intimacy, especially when shared with someone who loves you in the same way. And I have acknowledged the complexity of the "love"/sexual dialectic in intimate relationships, so I was not ignoring the possibility that people kiss for purely sexual reasons.

Lastly, I have to say your straw man representation for my arguments and opinions, because I know they are just that, are extremely insulting. While your points may be valid according to your interpretation of my arguments, it's irresponsible to automatically assume I am "predatory" before asking for clarification from me first. I don't know if this is a habit with you, or if something about my tone or manner of speech or perceived personality just irks you, but very little of it is constructive. In the meantime, you do bring up some valid points when you're not going for my throat, so I will try to be more careful with my humor, my reasoning, and my choice of words. Just understand these are problems very specific with posting and chatting online, and I'm new at this, so it's going to be rough.

 

[sam_solo26]

Thanks Robby, really appreciated

 

[D_Theophallus Kneedgroin]

Kissing is EROTIC period, I don't care if its men, women or any combination of that. :biggrin1:

Agreed!!! Kissing is one of my favorite things....just look at my avatar :tongue:

 

[Flashy]

Okay... Well, somebody hates me without knowing the intentions, histories, and thoughts behind my posts. I don't know if it's just Flashman that got this from my posts or if many others got it, but:

firstly, I do not Hate you, i don't hate people I do not know, and your assumption of that is yet another example of your off the mark generalinzing.

i just think you are talking out of your ass, about a theme that you have no knowledge about other then your own twisted point of view on the topic, and your intentions and history, have been quite clear since the very beginning of this thread, and there have been others who have pointed this out in the thread by pointing out a theme in a portion of the gay community which they as gay men found to be disturbing or upsetting.

1. I did not want to imply in any way that you "force" yourself on someone who isn't receptive. I thought that was assumed here, but I guess I have to state it for all to read. I think obviously, or at least respectfully, talk should be involved before any sexual act. That should take care of about 90% of Flashy's criticism.

Funny, you never bothered to say that, and instead, you insisted upon your three criteria and stated you should get drunk before doing it...that does not sound like you were respectfully going about. Besides, if that was what you wanted, why not find someone you know is Bi or Gay, and explain the situation to them, and ask if they would be willing to help your girlfriend's fantasy come true? Instead, you put the onus on his friends...which is about the least friendly thing you can do to someone who trusts you...you NEVER put a friend on the spot like that. Well maybe YOU do, but anyone who is as trusting and normal and secure like the targets you have suggested, would certainly never even dream of possibly making a friend that uncomfortable. You should know better.


2. The "find a gay person comment" was a throw-away joke. Sorry it didn't work for you.

Well, that is sad...that you consider it a joke...because THAT would be the appropriate thing...find an experienced gay or bi-male who may be understanding of the subject's dilemma and curiousity about making out in front of the girlfriend. Someone who would be willing to help, was definitely interested, was comfy with the situation and could steer the situation with experience...instead, you have chosen an inexperienced friend, and a straight one at that, as the the target of the possible experience.

You have no right to put someone under that type of pressure and consider yourself a friend. It is a terrible violation of trust. It is not like asking if youcan borrow that person's car...it is a fundamental shift in the nature of your relationship with person, signifying an attraction, that goes beyond friendship.



3. The "insecure humanity" comment was made on my own line of thought about kissing someone who had previously consented but afterward regrets their decision and decides to take it out physically and/or emotionally on you. I was not saying it without a doubt would happen. I was saying that it is a very real possibility. That you did not react that way during your traumatizing event shows that you are a considerate person, and I respect that. But there are many people, mainly guys unfortunately, that would not react that way, even during a consentual sexual/intimate act and especially when it's not consentual (in which case such a reaction is not justifiable but more understandable).

Funny, that again, you did not bother to mention that.

Which is why again, you should have suggested that this person try with an experienced bi or gay person...you have no right to put a straight person under that pressure to roll the dice to see how he will react.

I find it amusing, that you also think, that in a non-consensual encounter, you also think that someone hitting the offender is "more understandable" yet not "justifiable"...if a man completely goes in and non consensually starts kissing a woman, she has every right to slap him in the face, punch him in the face, or kick him in the balls. Same goes for a man being violated...if you violate someone like that you don't have any right to decide what is or what is not a justifiable response...because you in fact have placed that person in a completely vulnerable situation, and human beings, like animals, wwill react unpredictably when cornered or threatened and feeling vulnerable...in fact if i did that to an unwilling participant, i would firmly expect to be slugged, and chances are, that person deserves it. As far as i am concerned, someone sticks their tongue in your mouth, and you don't want it there, you have every right to take a slap or a punch back if indeed you are upset about it, and the violator should hardly be surprised when it happens.



4. You are right that in that I should have used either a more neutral word, or more words, when I said "expressing love", although I think it could be argued that sexuality is a form of love and intimacy, especially when shared with someone who loves you in the same way. And I have acknowledged the complexity of the "love"/sexual dialectic in intimate relationships, so I was not ignoring the possibility that people kiss for purely sexual reasons.

You can argue it any way you like, but you know damn well that you were trying to color it as you were just an innocent wanting to "express love" because you like to consider kissing to be some sort of philosophical expression, when in fact, your problem is, it is not philosophical...it has very real connotations and is a very tangible representation of sexual need/desire, when it is of the "making out" variety...there is a very different connotation to being kissed on the cheek in greeting, and having someone stick their tongue in your mouth/lip kissing...you know the latter has nothing to do with an expression of love if it is between people who are not in fact in love.



Lastly, I have to say your straw man representation for my arguments and opinions, because I know they are just that, are extremely insulting. While your points may be valid according to your interpretation of my arguments, it's irresponsible to automatically assume I am "predatory" before asking for clarification from me first. I don't know if this is a habit with you, or if something about my tone or manner of speech or perceived personality just irks you, but very little of it is constructive. In the meantime, you do bring up some valid points when you're not going for my throat, so I will try to be more careful with my humor, my reasoning, and my choice of words. Just understand these are problems very specific with posting and chatting online, and I'm new at this, so it's going to be rough.

Be as insulted as you want...you have waltzed into this thread spouting your ignorant and wishfull philosophical expressions and have taken issue when others have called you on it.

If you were concerned about appearing to be predatory, then maybe you should have stated your true intentions, and the fact that you have advised this young man to go after straight friends, and then used as a joke, the very real and much more tangible, rational and decent concept of seeking the encounter with an experienced bi-male or gay male, shows very clearly, that you advised him to go after straight friends, and not already comfortable and secure gay or bi men.

I would say that falls under the aegis of predatory, since by all your declarations in this thread, you seem to have an abundance of experience with tactics when "approaching" or "propostioning" straight men, and then being very aware of how they may react to your advances, either before, or after, consensual, or non-consensual. I would say that one of the definitions of predatory suits you very well, in this case, and based on your definitions " living by or given to victimizing others for personal gain"


As for this being me showing a lack of constructive criticism, well why should you receive it? You have not said anything that would merit constructive criticism...only criticism, from someone who has been on the other end of your sage advice....and then wondering if this was a habit with me, when in fact you are the one who has stated you are the relative "babe in the woods" here, then suggesting it may be your personality which is irksome, and not the offending and offbase remarks you have made.

As for these problems being so new and specific to cyber chat, and you being "new", that hardly falls under the category of why in fact the opinions you were expressing caused offense...to consider semantics as your excuse, and not in fact your ignorant assumptions about straight men is precisely why you have been reacted to in this way.

 

[Flashy]

Sam,
Just wanted to thank you again for your advice and I definitely recognized your humor as such. It is painfully obvious that someone is working through some major violation issues and you were apparently the "target du jour". And bravo for your graceful response.
Rob

well robby, this was your original post in this matter:

"My girlfriend would really get off seeing me kiss another straight guy but I just don't know if I can do it. I love to do whatever I can to get her going but...

What's it like? Will I be grossed out? What if I like it? Anyone else ever been in this situation? Got any advice? "

-------

since you have no experience whatsoever in this matter, don't tell anyone about their "violation issues"...your flippant reaction to an experience by someone else, that happens to many straight men (and women) at the behest of someone who thinks it is okay to do so is PRECISELY, why you should be with an experienced gay or bi-male, if you do this, and why you, of all people, who are so nervous yet excited about the prospect should take very seriously into consideration what you in fact COULD do to someone else emotionally and yourself as well.

The violation i spoke of happens every day to people, and is a regular occurrence, and i assure you, is not something to be taken lightly (though apparently, it is just grist for the mill for you to make a joke about"major issues" at my expense...)all the more reason why you should find a gay or bi-male, if you choose to try this, since you seem to care so little for the well-being of another straight person on the topic.

By your posting here and asking for advice and your clear nervousness and clearly stated aversion to possibly doing this , you are already having major issues with even the topic of going about it consensually on your part.

maybe you would do well to transfer your nervousness and apprehension and think about someone else for a change and if you feel this way about the prospect yourself, imagine how a man who is NOT curious like you are may feel, if violated.

You are so nervous you need to come here for advice, so imagine someone who does not want to do it and has no interest, suddenly being dropped into the situation, by you or someone else. I assure you it feels much different.

Sam was hardly the "target du jour", I have never contested this person except in this thread on very specific topics, and he knows it. I do not need to "target" people, and apparently, having had an experience, that YOU did not have, somehow you are more qualified to tell Sam he has been "targeted" in some absurd cyber thread then i am qualified to tell you and he what it feels like to in fact REALLY be targeted and in real life, not in some silly message board conversation.

I would say you are the one with major issues in your life and relationship. You are 43 years old, are at least bi-curious if you are considering this, have never had the courage to try and do something it seems you may want to do, but are very nervous to try.

You sound very much like my father, who has lived virtually his whole life in the closet, miserable because he was afraid of finding out who he really was, and even now at age 66 has never freed himself and as such lives in his own prison of nervousness and self-doubt, never attempting things that might bring him some peace and happiness, for HIMSELF, and not someone else's desire...

Which is ironic, because of your confusion over not wanting to admit that this is something that you may want to do to be happy as opposed to something to satsify your girlfriend's desires which are not as important as your own in terms of your wellbeing.

Seems like you are the one with the issues to be dealt with, and the sooner you do, the happier you will be.

Sounds like you have someone in your life who is pressuring you to do something you are not comfortable doing at all...

"My girlfriend would really get off seeing me kiss another straight guy but I just don't know if I can do it."

even more alarming, she wants you to do it to ANOTHER straight guy. So how exactly does that work? You seem curious, but very nervous about it...so imagine someone who is NOT even the least little bit curious...imagine what you would do to him?

That is something to be considered before you make snickering jokes about someone's "major violation issues"

I assure you, if you take Sam's advice, and attempt this with just some other straight friend who fits his absurd guidelines, not only will you possibly traumatize yourself (since you are already extremely nervous about this based on your stipulation) by doing something you are not ready for, but you may in fact spoil a friendship, ruin it irretrievably, and what's worse, you may in fact cause as you say "major violation issue" to some friend you really cared dearly about...enough to be a trusted friend, who has now caused him incredible pain and confusion, not to mention betrayal.

Before you act so flippant about others' "major violation issues" (my experience was in 1990) you might do best to think about what it is you may in fact do to someone.

seems to me, your girlfriend not only wants you to do her bidding, but she does not in fact want to see two straight kissing/making out...because in fact, straight guys do not do that...she wants to see you involved in a gay or bi sexual situation, under the guise of you both being "straight"...and that simply is not a fact...straight guys do not make out with each other in front of their girlfriends.

If this is something you wish to do, then i wish you all the best with it, and if you get over your clear apprehension of this situation, and do it, then i hope it works out for you, and if your path is being truly bi or gay, then i wish you nothing but happiness and safety and joy in your road of life... however, what if this works out well for you...But not your friend? I assure you, you will not feel good about that...

which is why, if this is something you wish to do, do it for yourself, and not some girlfriend, and if you do it for yourself, for the right reasons, do it with someone who clearly is okay and experienced with it, i.e. a bi or gay male.

You do not have the right to potentially do damage to someone else...least of all, someone who may be a valued friend...and my issue with Sam, your guru on this topic, is he does not care about your friends and how they may feel...wheras I have been in the position of one of your friends possibly being in this situation, and i am telling you, this is NOT what you do to someone you care about as your friend...

this experience is your path to walk...that does not make it fair for you to make it theirs.

Sam can afford to be "graceful"...he has nothing to lose in this situation...wheras you do...i.e. your own feelings about yourself, your feelings about your GF, her feelings about you, and worst of all, you could lose a friend, and even worse, hurt them very badly.

think about that before you laud Sam and belittle me.




​

 

[Mushroom Maniac]

Wow.

 

[sam_solo26]

That was my first thought. Now I have to actually go ahead and read them. Whatever.

 

[Rubber_JonnyN]

Personally, I don't find shit to be sexy (hehe)

2girls1cup*+*+*+*



& umm, gaytube.com? xtube.com? ye, those should do ya.