H. Floresiensis the Hobbit, a Scientific Mystery

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Bbucko, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. Bbucko

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    This is not a new story, but there is a new article in the New York Times about a very curious bunch of bones, seemingly from an as-yet unknown hominid found on the Indonesian island of Flores.

    I find this all endlessly fascinating: possible proof of one of humanity's close cousins, alive just 11,000 years ago, with a skull the size of a grapefruit. What's most interesting is that there are certain features (the wrist, for instance) that differ from H sapiens and the Neanderthals in a way that suggests a separate evolutionary split around 2 million years ago.

    As a fan of exobiology and other anomalous finds, this is just the sort of thing that starts the mind really turning.
     
  2. Skull Mason

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  3. joyboytoy79

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    I really don't understand why it's so hard for some scientists (and non-scientists, too) to understand the concept of tidal movements. Populations come in, they go out, they come in, they go out. Is it really that complicated?

    Homo floresiensis was just being discredited (the first time) when I was studying Archaeology as my first unfinished degree. The argument then was that this couldn't possibly be a separate hominid species because there was no record of it or anything like it in Africa. My question then, as it is now, was "so what?" We already know the fossil record is incomplete. Who knows how many hominid species there have been, or how many co-existed, or where each separate species evolved? We have guesses. But to assume that all hominids evolved in Africa, or that all ancestors to humans evolved in Africa, is specious at best. It's a good theory, and most current evidence points to it, but there's no way to know with certainty. We do know that H. sapiens evolved in Africa, that's been proven with DNA evidence, isn't that good enough?
     
  4. Bbucko

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    What? No link to the Starchild? :biggrin1:

    I was thinking of you when I posted this, SM. But, then again, I think of you often :rolleyes:

    Archeology and Paleoanthropology are two of the most conservative scientific disciplines I'm aware of, and they each are still burdened with early-mid 20th century anachronistic thinking.

    There are still those who believe that the Vedas were written by the ancient equivalents of Cossacks on horseback, white "conquerors" who brought their language, civilization and "evolved" spirituality to all those little dark people on the Indian subcontinent holed up in their Harappan cities with sewers and laws and such.

    Then there's that inconvenient truth about the Sphinx showing water erosion, or the fact that astronomical alignments suggest that Tiahuanaco was a port city constructed over 7000 years ago...
     
  5. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    :eek:you mean it didn't happen that way!?!:eek:
     
  6. Deno

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    So there were little people back then too, I wonder if they tossed them around back then too.
     
  7. JustAsking

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    Joy,
    I believe that you were taught this, but I do find it hard to believe that the scientific community was using that kind of argument to dispute its phylogeny. Geographic species radiation is such a well known phenomenon that even Darwin used it as an argument for evolution. That a species can end up on an island for the first time and then evolve to match the new environment is nothing new.

    In fact a common thing that happens is that when a species ends up on an island where there are no serious predators for it, it usually evolves to a much smaller size. Concerns about conservation of body heat aside, a large size comes with its cost, and if it is no longer necessary, shedding size makes things metabolically cheaper.

    So yeah, I am surprised that the classification of H. Floresiensis was ever disputed seriously on grounds that there is no sign of it in Africa. Perhaps there is more to the story, though.

    Oh yeah, and Bbucko, I also find this really fascinating.
     
  8. Bbucko

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    I just found another story about the "Hobbits" from the BBC, calling them a different species that survived until perhaps 8,000 years ago.

    Imagine if they still existed: would they be relegated to consideration as apes, or would we be required to accept them as human?
     
  9. pym

    pym New Member

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    The Hobbit bones are a curiousity. But from the readings that i have done on the subject, there doesn't seem to be any extraordinary things about these peoples. Primordial Dwarfism is a readily attributable explanation for these findings. Especially as these peoples seem {Thus Far} to be an anomoly only found on this small island. Land-locked isolation most likely led to a smaller genetic pool with-in that culture.....with the likely results of genetic abberations. Not to mention that dwarfism among other species is prominently shown throughout the fossil record, as a result of isolation.
    11,000 years ago is a bit too close to the modern era for me to accept a proto-hominid still being in existence. Consider that the Aboriginals were well established in Australia 40,000 years ago. And were NON-INDIGENOUS! A sea-faring culture so far back?
    Also regarding the sphinx....The sphinx is not a construction,{like the pyramids} it is a carving that was hewn from an existing Yardang {naturally ocurring rock outcrop}. Knowing that.....it is not so hard to understand the erosion patterns that are clearly exhibited on the body portion of that Megalithic ancient wonder.
    Here is something a bit more profound from 11,000 years ago. Gobekle Tepe. This discovery in southern Turkey is going to rewrite many previous conceptions about religion and the capabilities of what was thought to be Stone-age mankind. I am providing some links here to ponder. Consider as you look upon the stone effigies, a prehistoric Zodiac of sorts in clear evidence. At least 6000 years prior to stone henge/the pyramids at Giza.
    To me, at least.....i see all the footprints of nascent religions and mythologies as yet unborn, clearly in evidence at this site.
    Göbekli Tepe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Gobekli Tepe: The World?s First Temple? | History & Archaeology | Smithsonian Magazine

    Gobekli Tepe - Eden, Home of the Watchers

    Göbekli Tepe in Turkey: A 12,000-year-old Temple Complex

    7000 Years Before Stonehenge: Unveiling Göbekli Tepe | TDG - Science, Magick, Myth and History
     
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