Haiti Relief

[D_Andreas Sukov]

Of course I was saying that you have a lot to teach him. After all, you're a teenager! You know everything!

Ah! The ole' Your young and im old, im right and your wrong thing.......Yeah, that gets thrown around alot here. Disregard All my posts, i mean, My age, not facts, is what is wrong with them.

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

Uh huh.

Uh huh. Yeah Typical conservative. Atleast Star bombards us with facts and figures. I can respect that. You are just lazy.

 

[B_Mister Buildington]

Ah! The ole' Your young and im old, im right and your wrong thing.......Yeah, that gets thrown around alot here. Disregard All my posts, i mean, My age, not facts, is what is wrong with them.

No, man. I'm 24, and it wasn't too long ago that I was where you are at.

The problem is that you ARE ignorant (it is obvious to everyone but you), and because of your youth, you assume that you are enlightened. Look up the word "sophomoric" - it describes your condition to a T.

Don't worry- you'll probably grow out of it.

Probably.

 

[TomCat84]

lemon, I think what we're trying to say is that it's great that you hold your views. That's awesome, really. But you have to realize that other people hold sincerely held different beliefs from you, and you have to be able to articulate your views in a way that respects other folks, and be open to being wrong sometimes. Youre not doing a good job.

 

[B_Mister Buildington]

This has turned into a pretty fun thread.

 

[B_Enough_for_Me]

Uh huh. Yeah Typical conservative. Atleast Star bombards us with facts and figures. I can respect that. You are just lazy.

Lazy? Ok, Stupid, lets try again:

Debt cancellation isn't the answer. Think about it in the long term.

But first, some questions: Which debtor's note will we cancel? Which "debts" are we speaking of? Are these IMF loans? World Bank loans? Government backed securities? Private loans? What? Whose loans get cancelled? It's not enough to say "Haiti's." Who is responsible for these debts? Can they pay their debts? Why wouldn't we just put a temporary stay on the debts? Will cancelling debts actually fix anything? Haiti is already cash poor, saying they can use the cash they have to fix their government is a little "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche."

Now, when we cancel yet-to-be-defined "debts" how do we convince others to loan money to Haiti? Haiti is already short on GDP, throw in government enforced "debt" cancellation and you have a recipe for another two decades of poverty. Why? 1) Moral hazard. 2) Risk aversion.

On top of all of this, who has the power to simply cancel a debt? It is far far far more complex than it's getting credit for here.

It would be far easier and more beneficial to give Haiti a new loan to rebuild on.

This time try to do better than "nuh uh."

 

[B_Enough_for_Me]

No, man. I'm 24, and it wasn't too long ago that I was where you are at.

The problem is that you ARE ignorant (it is obvious to everyone but you), and because of your youth, you assume that you are enlightened. Look up the word "sophomoric" - it describes your condition to a T.

Don't worry- you'll probably grow out of it.

Probably.

Yep, thats about it.

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

Lazy? Ok, Stupid, lets try again:



This time try to do better than "nuh uh."

I was repeating the "Uh huh" you said. I never said Nuh uh. All i did was disagree with what you said, as you did to me. Difference between us, i have facts, you called me stupid.

@MRBuddington-I told Star he would be intelligent if he didnt try to turn this into a Left V right thread. You return by saying because im young, i dont know what im on about. I looked up Sophomoric, and how am i lacking judgement? I accepted troops were needed in Haiti, i just think the whole process could be done alot better. I dont lack judgement. I have thought this through, just simply not written a book on here about it. It still more than you have suggested. Also, where have i acted enlightened? I have spoken down to anyone. I posted figures from a newspaper (not the most amazing source, but show me a media that is) and presented them in a wider perspective of something, which i believe to be important. If thats me being enlightened, why are you encouraging me to be narrowminded?

@Tomcat- Firstly, thanks for not just going at me and saying nicely. Secondly, Why should i admit im wrong? I do not believe a new loan will help Haiti. I believe the only way any third world nation will ever move forward is by a cancellation of debt that is held over them. Why am i being attacked because im a Socialist? I called someone right wing because their post called me stupid and said nothing else. Give me counter arguments and prove me wrong and i will put my hands up and say i was wrong. Simply say i was stupid, and i wont accept it.

Quite simply as i have seen time and time again on here, a young poster is simply pushed aside or attacked. Dont tell me that its just people trying to help me, as its been said before and given a good post i will learn from it. Simply calling me stupid teaches me nothing. Industrial and Drifter both challenged my point. Everyone else attacked me not on the issue, simply on a personal level. Now lets get back on topic.....

 

[B_Mister Buildington]

I never said Nuh uh.

I'm telling mom!

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

I'm telling mom!

HAHAHAHAHA, i dont think my mum would want to know i was on a site like this. But yet again, you fail to challenge any of my points.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

HAHAHAHAHA, i dont think my mum would want to know i was on a site like this. But yet again, you fail to challenge any of my points.

(S)he'll do that a lot around here. Just walk away from the gender illusionist.

 

[B_Mister Buildington]

(S)he'll do that a lot around here. Just walk away from the gender illusionist.

Look, Vinyl, I already admitted publicly that I am a woman pretending to be a man on LPSG. It's pretty common. Most of the men here are actually women- especially those of us without verification pics.

If there was a way to change my gender officially on this site, I would, since the cat is out of the bag.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Look, Vinyl, I already admitted publicly that I am a woman pretending to be a man on LPSG.

Can I call you Ukyo Kuonji then?

It's pretty common. Most of the men here are actually women- especially those of us without verification pics.

And that's why you did it. Sure.

If there was a way to change my gender officially on this site, I would, since the cat is out of the bag.

Just make a new account and delete the old one. Plain & simple.

 

[B_Mister Buildington]

Can I call you Ukyo Kuonji then?

You can call me anything you want, sugartits.

 

[B_Enough_for_Me]

I was repeating the "Uh huh" you said. I never said Nuh uh. All i did was disagree with what you said, as you did to me. Difference between us, i have facts, you called me stupid.

Um, no. You don't have "facts" you have an opinion, one with which I have disagreed. I posed a lengthy disagreement to which you replied "nuh uh" and then said you haven't received a disagreement. It's right there, sonny.

Why should i admit im wrong? I do not believe a new loan will help Haiti. I believe the only way any third world nation will ever move forward is by a cancellation of debt that is held over them.

You're being "attacked" because you aren't defending your position. I explained that you can't just "cancel" debts. It doesn't work that way. Especially when you can't say which "debt" should be cancelled or explain yourself out of the future fallout of not paying back their debts. For instance, if you think Word Bank loans shouldn't be paid back then you'd have to explain why the next third world country down the line doesn't deserve the loan that would comprise the money Haiti owes. It would be a domino effect. One country doesn't pay, another doesn't get development dollars, repeat.

Let's start simply: Which debt, precisely, should be cancelled?

I called someone right wing because their post called me stupid and said nothing else.

And conservatives are the intolerant ones?

Give me counter arguments and prove me wrong

done and done.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

You can call me anything you want, sugartits.

Now you know better than to give a gay man a title like that. LOL!! :biggrin1:

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

Um, no. You don't have "facts" you have an opinion, one with which I have disagreed. I posed a lengthy disagreement to which you replied "nuh uh" and then said you haven't received a disagreement. It's right there, sonny.

I guess you missed the Figures i put in my first post in this thread. Again, i never said Nuh uh. I said UH HUH, like you did. I was repeating what you said. Dont call me sonny. I dont call you pops, so dont refer to me in such a patronising tone.

You're being "attacked" because you aren't defending your position. I explained that you can't just "cancel" debts. It doesn't work that way. Especially when you can't say which "debt" should be cancelled or explain yourself out of the future fallout of not paying back their debts. For instance, if you think Word Bank loans shouldn't be paid back then you'd have to explain why the next third world country down the line doesn't deserve the loan that would comprise the money Haiti owes. It would be a domino effect. One country doesn't pay, another doesn't get development dollars, repeat.

Let's start simply: Which debt, precisely, should be cancelled?

It is my opinion that ALL debts, by all banks should be cancelled. Development money does very little to help countries. The corrupt Governments in those nations dont help, but almost all money made from such developments is spent on paying back the loan. If you want to help the third world, cut the debts. Why cant developed nations just offer services to help these nations. Afterall, it was us that fucked the nations over with our empires, and our interferring ways. Call me naive, but its the fair thing to do. Even medieval Kings would help kings of failed wars after beating them, as is the relationship between rulers. We invaded, took what we wanted, and told them to fuck themselves.

And conservatives are the intolerant ones?

Yes, Your status is you being called a conservative. Calling you right wing is apt. Its not intolerance.

done and done.

.

 

[B_Enough_for_Me]

Oh my. You still didn't say which debt should be cancelled. Just name one, Mr. I-Know-What-I'm-Talking-About. Come up with an answer. You can learn what the World Bank is, and how it works, on Google. Then you can check out the kinds of loans that it makes, and for what reason. Then, the final step, is to name one loan that has been made to Haiti and say "this one should be cancelled." I know its much easier to spew communist rhetoric, but this is REALLY EASY, I promise; I've given you all the tools you need. "Cancel them all" isn't an answer, it's Downs Syndrome. Honestly, that statement exceeds any measure we have for stupid. Though it is believed impossible for stupidity to register on the Richter Scale I think that statement may have moved a needle or two.

You see, I know you have no idea what the World Bank does or even why it exists. That, taken to it's extreme, is why you still follow Marx (kinda, he wasn't stupid enough to believe all debts should be cancelled) as blindly as you do. Young people love communism/socialism because they have nothing, nor any ability to make something. So, taking it from others sounds fantastic....or rather they say it sounds "fair"

Your figures were nonsense the first time, you have no source or credibility.

Yes, calling people conservative when you think they are wrong is ignorant and intolerant; some would say closed minded.

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

Oh my. You still didn't say which debt should be cancelled. Just name one, Mr. I-Know-What-I'm-Talking-About. Come up with an answer. You can learn what the World Bank is, and how it works, on Google. Then you can check out the kinds of loans that it makes, and for what reason. Then, the final step, is to name one loan that has been made to Haiti and say "this one should be cancelled." I know its much easier to spew communist rhetoric, but this is REALLY EASY, I promise; I've given you all the tools you need. "Cancel them all" isn't an answer, it's Downs Syndrome. Honestly, that statement exceeds any measure we have for stupid. Though it is believed impossible for stupidity to register on the Richter Scale I think that statement may have moved a needle or two.

You see, I know you have no idea what the World Bank does or even why it exists. That, taken to it's extreme, is why you still follow Marx (kinda, he wasn't stupid enough to believe all debts should be cancelled) as blindly as you do. Young people love communism/socialism because they have nothing, nor any ability to make something. So, taking it from others sounds fantastic....or rather they say it sounds "fair"

Your figures were nonsense the first time, you have no source or credibility.

Yes, calling people conservative when you think they are wrong is ignorant and intolerant; some would say closed minded.

Ok that highlighted comment was very distasteful. we will leave it at that.

How can cancel them all not be an answer? The loans given to these countries are never fair. The IMF have given $114M to Haiti, which the government have 5 and half years to pay back. Why should they pay it back? Look at the history of Haiti. It has been permanantly in Debt since it freed itself from France. The majority of loans in the 60's were stolen, by a known corrupt leader. As someone stated in this thread already,this is America's Sphere of influence, why did they not do anything. Because the Duvalier Family, promised to stay Non-communist. Your Precious capitalist government was happy to let a nation starve and be crippled in debt, by giving money to a corrupt leader. Says alot about you.

If you want to know what debt should be cancelled, Ill mention the $500M debt from the IDB. A debt ive already mentioned. The loan forces the countries to pay back nations rather than the commercial banks who control the interest that they pay it back. Its not fair.

Would you not label yourself a conservative? Therefore its not small minded. Also, im not a communist. Dont say im spewing Communist filth when im talking about something many economists are mentioning. Look at the Jubilee 2000 campaign.

( I had to go back to my International relations lecture notes for that. Thanks for the incentive to revise)

 

[D_Jared Padalicki]

Oh my. You still didn't say which debt should be cancelled. Just name one, Mr. I-Know-What-I'm-Talking-About. Come up with an answer. You can learn what the World Bank is, and how it works, on Google. Then you can check out the kinds of loans that it makes, and for what reason. Then, the final step, is to name one loan that has been made to Haiti and say "this one should be cancelled." I know its much easier to spew communist rhetoric, but this is REALLY EASY, I promise; I've given you all the tools you need. "Cancel them all" isn't an answer, it's Downs Syndrome. Honestly, that statement exceeds any measure we have for stupid. Though it is believed impossible for stupidity to register on the Richter Scale I think that statement may have moved a needle or two.

You see, I know you have no idea what the World Bank does or even why it exists. That, taken to it's extreme, is why you still follow Marx (kinda, he wasn't stupid enough to believe all debts should be cancelled) as blindly as you do. Young people love communism/socialism because they have nothing, nor any ability to make something. So, taking it from others sounds fantastic....or rather they say it sounds "fair"

Your figures were nonsense the first time, you have no source or credibility.

Yes, calling people conservative when you think they are wrong is ignorant and intolerant; some would say closed minded.

Unbelievable you dare to say this. By saying such stuff you are saying that the people who have the Down syndrome are in fault for having it. How narrow minded can you be, and even have the guts to say this.

I don't care about your discussion, but you crossed the line with saying this.