Halloween Surprise (and not a good one)

scanjock8

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I'm with JoyBoy. While you may consider their expression of faith unacceptable, they have every right to provide religous pamphlets to anybody who rings their doorbell standing on their property holding out an open bag. Sure, they're probably the weird family nobody invites to dinner, but if your kids understand why we respect their freedom to practice their religion even if we disagree with their beliefs, the experience could be a positive lesson of tolerance for them.
 

Lex

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DC--I know you did not miss that point. I know you far better than that.

JBT, et.al. -- I talk to my kids about being open-minded and all of that. What surprises me is that when I have been approached on the street by people of this ilk, they usually ask if they can give you a pamphlet or other reading material. I doubt that they asked my kids that.

As a parent, I never expose the children of other people to things I would not expose my kids to and, even then, sometimes I double check with the parents just to be on the safe side.

I could give out pics of two clothed men/women kissing and that would be within the law but still fucked up.
 

B_Stronzo

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Well there you have it.

For me the entire holiday is preposterous anyhow.

DC's onto it.. if the children are going door-to-door with a bag looking for any sort of hand out no matter what the excuse you cannot qualify what's dropped into the bags.

In my opinion the holiday should be abolished since it's nothing but organized begging and a reason for Mad. Ave. to bolster the economy making money off a gullible consumer base.

Signed, Ebenezer Scrooge

Lex said:
I could give out pics of two clothed men/women kissing and that would be within the law but still fucked up.

DO IT I SAY!!!!
 

DC_DEEP

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I could give out pics of two clothed men/women kissing and that would be within the law but still fucked up.
The sad thing is, the ones who needed that the most would not be the ones on your doorstep.

On second thought, how about this: next time door-to-door jesus salemen come to your door, tell them "no thank you, but I would like to leave some literature with you" and hand them the same-gender porn pics. I don't know if that would be more or less effective than my tactic of answering the door nude when I know who's there....
In my opinion the holiday should be abolished since it's nothing but organized begging and a reason for Mad. Ave. to bolster the economy making money off a gullible consumer base.
Ah, well, my partner LOVES halloween, but he's a bit twisted, and it's only 3 days past his birthday, so there you have it. I'm not much of a holiday person. I go along with some of them, just to be social, but some I absolutely refuse to participate in... mostly xmas and easter... all the big christian/jewish/muslim holidays I avoid.
 

BuddyBoy

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I think a lot of people fail to get what the real issue here is. The real issue is certain things are not okay. It is not okay to feed your neighbor's dog without permission. It is not okay to blast your music loud enough for your neighbors down the street to hear it. And it is NOT FUCKING OKAY to push an agenda on children. Religion, faith, or lack therof are a parent's right to teach their children. No one else should be involved without the parent first asking if it's okay.
In principle I agree that handing out religious pamphlets to kids at holloween is in bad taste - just as I dislike revieving those little prayer cards when I fly alaska airlines.

The part where I start seeing a double standard though is that a great many intolerant people have use the same arguments to justify banning of same-sex childrens books and education programs in schools.

I don't support their right to allow home grown prejudice to trump free speech and education, so I can't very well censor someone who slips a religous pamphlet to a child on their own property when the children have appeared demanding candy as it were. I guess I'd rather give up the justification to censor my neighbours in exchange for the free right to educate their children out of hate and prejudice.

Can't justify permitting one and censoring another, in my opinion.
 

scanjock8

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In my opinion the holiday should be abolished since it's nothing but organized begging and a reason for Mad. Ave. to bolster the economy making money off a gullible consumer base.

Signed, Ebenezer Scrooge

scrooge incarnate! come on, kids LOVE halloween. acting out in constumes, parties, tons and tons of candy. although i will say trick-or-treating isn't what it used to be. i took my Godchildren this year and it was such an orchestrated activity made dull by too many adults. gone are the days when kids raised hell with their friends unsupervised. like we did. bummer.

The sad thing is, the ones who needed that the most would not be the ones on your doorstep.

On second thought, how about this: next time door-to-door jesus salemen come to your door, tell them "no thank you, but I would like to leave some literature with you" and hand them the same-gender porn pics. I don't know if that would be more or less effective than my tactic of answering the door nude when I know who's there....

or just tell them you're Catholic. works every time!
 

DC_DEEP

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The part where I start seeing a double standard though is that a great many intolerant people have use the same arguments to justify banning of same-sex childrens books and education programs in schools.
BuddyBoy, there's a HUGE difference here... one is involving kids going door to door in a private neighborhood, of their own volition. The other is using tax dollars to influence public school curriculum. Please explain to me why you think those are the same.[/quote]
 

DC_DEEP

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or just tell them you're Catholic. works every time!
Ha, you must have had the wimpy JH or COJCOLDS jesus salesmen. The ones I have encountered would NOT be fazed by the catholic claim. Shit, it never bothered them that I screamed at them, foaming at the mouth. The ONLY thing that ever worked for me, without fail, was answering the door in the nude.
 

joyboytoy79

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In principle I agree that handing out religious pamphlets to kids at holloween is in bad taste - just as I dislike revieving those little prayer cards when I fly alaska airlines.

The part where I start seeing a double standard though is that a great many intolerant people have use the same arguments to justify banning of same-sex childrens books and education programs in schools.

I don't support their right to allow home grown prejudice to trump free speech and education, so I can't very well censor someone who slips a religous pamphlet to a child on their own property when the children have appeared demanding candy as it were. I guess I'd rather give up the justification to censor my neighbours in exchange for the free right to educate their children out of hate and prejudice.

Can't justify permitting one and censoring another, in my opinion.

These are exactly my thoughts buddy. While i would never dream of pushing my own religious beliefs on others, especially children, i do recognize that it is completely within the rights of others to do so. I really believe that letting your children be exposed to the crap, and allowing them to decide for themselves whether it is crap or not is in the best interests of your kids. It really encourages them to think for themselves, and in the end will probably allow them to be more open-minded adults.
 

B_Stronzo

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scrooge incarnate! come on, kids LOVE halloween. acting out in constumes, parties, tons and tons of candy. although i will say trick-or-treating isn't what it used to be.
yes well okay then scanjock... anything that encourages dressing boys in drag can't be all bad. :rolleyes:


One other thing folks?

Can we agree to pronounce it properly "HAL' oh 'een"?

It's based on the word "hallow" not "hollow".

I've actually noted one poster on this thread who's so used to hearing it mispronounced he wrote 'holloween' :rolleyes:
 

dreamer20

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My most memorable Halloween surprise(and not a good one) was finding my windshield smashed in the night after leaving the gym in 1991. Luckily that was an isolated incident.

In the early 90's what N.P.'s children usually did when they knew halloween coming was to bury eggs to ensure that they would be rotten on halloween night. Then they tried to burst the eggs on their peers on that night. Now they are more interested in lighting fireworks instead.
 

scanjock8

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Ha, you must have had the wimpy JH or COJCOLDS jesus salesmen. The ones I have encountered would NOT be fazed by the catholic claim. Shit, it never bothered them that I screamed at them, foaming at the mouth. The ONLY thing that ever worked for me, without fail, was answering the door in the nude.

wow, you must have been hit with a newly developed strain. i'd love to see the look when you answer the door nude!
 

JustAsking

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or just tell them you're Catholic. works every time!

I had a friend in college who used to carry an official looking contract that he used to pull out whenever he was accosted by Evangelists bearing pamphlets. The contract granted the signer fame and fortune in exchange for their immoral soul. It was really well worded but had a few funny spots like "I ____________ (the Damned), hereby, ...." etc.

He would pull it out after reading the other guys pamphlet and say something like, "thats very interesting, but I think my guy has a better deal to offer. You might be interested in it." They would read it seriously for a moment and then react in one way or another.

When he was not in the mood for the contract thing, he would just look them in the eye and say in a low quiet voice, "I worship the dark thing that lives in the abyss." That usually worked pretty well, too.

Anyway, I think I agree with everyone here. It sucks that they were handing out religious pamphlets for halloween. Its really the parent's business how their kids get indoctrinated (or not), not anyone else's unless designated by the parents.

However, there is no law against what they did and you can't protect your children from the influence of other adults completely. If I were with my kids when the pamphlets were handed out, I surely would have said something about it to them and refused the pamphlets. But if my kids came home with the pamphlets I am not sure I would do much about it.

One exception, though. If the pamphlets were so fundamentalist as to be really scary, I might think about doing something about it. One time in my neighborhood years ago, some really wacky cult was handing out handmade literature that was close to inarticulate. I wasn't home at the time, so they put it in my mailbox. The one they gave me wasn't even a complete sentence, but implied that if I didn't repent right away that I would die. And the word "die" was capitalized and written like a crazy person. As if Charles Manson was my local evangelist or something.

It freaked me out so much that I took it to the local police station and reported it as a death threat.
 

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BuddyBoy, there's a HUGE difference here... one is involving kids going door to door in a private neighborhood, of their own volition. The other is using tax dollars to influence public school curriculum. Please explain to me why you think those are the same.
In my opinion, that line of reasoning actually works against us. Let me rephrase it for you.

Which is more acceptable:

a) using tax dollars to teach children information that parents feel is contrary to their faith and beliefs, or
b) a neighbour slipping a child a pamphlet contrary to their parents faith and belief, along with candy, given to children who have presented themselves on the neighbour's property, with bags held open for a unknown gift?

Now, understand, personally it would bug the hell out of me, but it's a trade off I'd be willing to accept in order to maintain the non-hypocritcal position allowing the teaching about same-sex families in the schools.

I really don't think I'm imagining the similarity, but perhaps it's not obvious.
 

PowayWolfman

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Dude that is messed up.. It just goes to show the two faced nature of such people. HYPOCRITES!

To be honest, i believe people have a right to practice their religion as long as it dose NO harm to ones physical or mental being,,, I myself am a wicca. And if a persona wishes to come up to me on the street and start telling me about his god, Im kewl with that,, I will simply listen for a few mindsets then kindly thank him for the insight and walk away.. were I draw the line is if they get persistent,, then they get not only both barrel of the gun, but a tank and air craft carrier worth of assWOop...

Religion belongs in ONES heart, soul, and home.... Not in the school, government, and in MY home XD
 

DC_DEEP

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In my opinion, that line of reasoning actually works against us. Let me rephrase it for you.

Which is more acceptable:

a) using tax dollars to teach children information that parents feel is contrary to their faith and beliefs, or
b) a neighbour slipping a child a pamphlet contrary to their parents faith and belief, along with candy, given to children who have presented themselves on the neighbour's property, with bags held open for a unknown gift?

Now, understand, personally it would bug the hell out of me, but it's a trade off I'd be willing to accept in order to maintain the non-hypocritcal position allowing the teaching about same-sex families in the schools.

I really don't think I'm imagining the similarity, but perhaps it's not obvious.
You are imagining a similarity, and you got my idea exactly backward. You made the comparison of banning books in the public school, and handing out pamphlets to people who knock on your door. Handing out pamphlets to people who knock on your door is perfectly within your right. Using tax dollars to skew public education to a religious slant is illegal and immoral.
 

fortiesfun

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I'm gonna trick-or-treat at DC's house next year dressed as a Mormon missionary.

Lex: It is pretty irritating, but I am surprised that you have never encountered this before. My son is now much older but twenty years ago I remember finding religious literature in his Halloween treats rather often. And I recall it even from my own childhood, which was eons ago now. Here is the comfort, as best as I can deliver it: There are a lot of pernicious ways to slip religious education in on kids, but this one just plain doesn't work. The chances that kids are going to pay any attention to it are about the same that they are going to read the ingredients list on the M&Ms bag.

We share outrage about so many things, but this is one thing that I found worked in my favor over time. It gave me an opportunity to discuss with my child that some people are so ashamed of their narrow-minded version of religion, and for good reason, that they have to sneak it in on you. Even they know that their idea of Jesus won't stand up to reasoned examination.