Happy with your circumcision status?

[chico8]

And as to that comment about my boys regreting my decision. Number 1 they do not know what the hell a foreskin is nor do they care. Number 2 here are things that they nor I ever need to worry about or have to learn to do: UTIs, phimosis, paraphimosis, bacterial infections, torn foreskins, smegma, retracting just to pee, retracting to wash, retracting to put a condom on.

Unless you've stuffed their heads in the sand, they'll be figuring it out before long and if you have a close relationship with them, they're probably gonna ask why.

UTIs also occur in cut boys and men, anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves. There are a lot of potential problems with circ, like meatal stenosis, too tight cuts that cause the skin to be stretched like a drum which can lead to torn penile skin and infections. The glans can get inflamed by not having the foreskin to protect it.

I can't imagine that anyone would think retracting the foreskin to pee, to clean or to put on a condom is anything major, you're really stretching there bud.

 

[Snozzle]

Here are some other decisions their mother and I have made for them that they may regret:

The schools that they go to
Where they live
The discipline I've given them
The friends that they can and cannot hang out with
The clothes that they wear
When they go to bed at night
The doctors that they see
And many more

Schools. If they want to learn more, they can go go night school later.
Domicile. They can hardly live apart from you as infants, can they? When they grow up, they'll live where they like.
Discipline. Who knows if your discipline was good or bad, but if it's really bad, the authorities step in.
Friends. You may have a veto, but to some extent they decide that for themselves from the word go.
Clothes. When they grow up, they'll choose their own clothes.
Likewise bed at night
And doctors.

Circumcision is uniquely different from all of these:
1. It's lifelong.
1a. It's irreversible.
2. It's a reduction of options.
3. You're absolutely forbidden to do it to your daughters.

Why is this part, and only this part,
of a boy's body, and only a boy's
able to be removed at the parents' whim,
and only the parents'?

If a stranger did it,
If it was any other part of his body,
If anyone did it to a girl,
If anyone did it to an adult without consent,
All hell would break loose.

What kind of parent can allow their son to suffer from UTIs or phimosis and do nothing about it because of thier beliefs about circumcision.

None of course. Nobody does nothing about it. You can treat a boy's UTIs exactly the same way you treat a girl's. (And this has nothing to do with pre-emptive circumcision of a penis that has nothing the matter with it.)

And "phimosis"? The foreskin normally adheres to the glans until it frees itself. This may not happen until puberty (I know a guy whose first sight of his glans was at his first adolescent erection - must have been alarming!) Heaps of guys' foreskins don't retract on erection and it's no problem to them. "phimosis" is only a problem if the penis' owner thinks it is, and then he can choose for himself what to do about it.

Oh and by the way circumcision is a surgical procedure and a person under the age of 18 cannot leaglly consent to it. PARENTS HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISION .

No they don't. In most of the world the vast majority never have to think about it.

And as to that comment about my boys regreting my decision. Number 1 they do not know what the hell a foreskin is nor do they care.

Yet.

Number 2 here are things that they nor I ever need to worry about or have to learn to do: UTIs, phimosis, paraphimosis, bacterial infections, torn foreskins, smegma, retracting just to pee, retracting to wash, retracting to put a condom on.

Nor have the vast majority of intact men ever had to worry about any of those things. The "learning how to do" is trivial and/or fun.

Finally who the f&*k cares.

You obviously care quite a lot.

If you're circed and happy about it great if you're not circed and happy about it great.

I'm not concerned about the people who are happy about it. The intact guys who are unhappy about it can be circumcised if they want. I'm on the side of the guys who are mad as hell at having had part of their dicks cut off without being given any choice in the matter.

Just enjoy life people and stop worrying about the dicks of others.

Close this board down, should we?

 

[Dr Rock]

Point is that we, LIKE ALL PARENTS, do what is in our kid's best interest.

i've known VERY few parents who do what is in their kids' best interests, but that's a whole other discussion.

We chose to circumcise our sons because we felt that benefits outweighed the possible complications of circumcision.

okay, well you were wrong. that sucks and it happens sometimes. however, it is not really very smart to try and defend your prior ignorance when you now have the chance to become informed.

And as to that comment about my boys regreting my decision. Number 1 they do not know what the hell a foreskin is nor do they care.

... until they go to school and spend the next 10+ years being mocked by the other kids for having a funny-looking dick. kids take that kinda thing very seriously.

Number 2 here are things that they nor I ever need to worry about or have to learn to do: UTIs, phimosis, paraphimosis, bacterial infections, torn foreskins, smegma, retracting just to pee

strange; i've never needed to worry about any of those things either, and i'm by no means short on foreskin.

retracting to wash, retracting to put a condom on.

oh man, that sounds like hard work all right; i dunno how i've ever managed

Just enjoy life people and stop worrying about the dicks of others.

um, i worry about the perpetuation of a sadistic and medically dangerous practise and its long-term effects on a substantial proportion of its victims. more importantly, my instinctive senses of justice and human dignity are grossly offended by the idea of people ripping off bits of newborn boys' penises. it consistently amazes and disgusts me how people with the apparent mental capacity to type words on a keyboard can be so distressingly lacking in basic moral decency as to ignore or even defend something as repulsive as neonatal circumcision.

 

[baseball99]

how the people read the post and came to the conclusion that I said foreskin causes diabetes demonstrates an inability to read. I am no foreskin expert but then again who is. I never said foreskin was a birth defect, seriously i realy dont even know where you come up with your comments. Follow the chain of events again please. this topic is completely pointless because you are claiming that circumcision was not appropriate for this kid.....its seriously like arguing that triple vessel bypass is not appropriate for someone with mycoardial ischemia.....now youre probably somehow going to twist my words into foreskin causes myocardial ischemia

 

[chico8]

I am no foreskin expert but then again who is. I never said foreskin was a birth defect, seriously i realy dont even know where you come up with your comments. Follow the chain of events again please. this topic is completely pointless because you are claiming that circumcision was not appropriate for this kid.....its seriously like arguing that triple vessel bypass is not appropriate for someone with mycoardial ischemia.....now youre probably somehow going to twist my words into foreskin causes myocardial ischemia

Was circumcision the only solution to this boy's problem? Steroidal creams and a dorsal slit could also provide the same solution without removing healthy and important tissue. One of the problems in the US is that few doctors are willing to look at ALL the options. It could be that they get more money by performing circs or that they are simply ignorant and predisposed to circumcision since it is accepted as the norm even though a full circ is rarely necessary.

It's like saying because someone has slighly high blood pressure, the only solution is a triple bypass. Overkill is overkill no matter what the medical condition.

 

[baseball99]

Was circumcision the only solution to this boy's problem? Steroidal creams and a dorsal slit could also provide the same solution without removing healthy and important tissue. One of the problems in the US is that few doctors are willing to look at ALL the options. It could be that they get more money by performing circs or that they are simply ignorant and predisposed to circumcision since it is accepted as the norm even though a full circ is rarely necessary.

It's like saying because someone has slighly high blood pressure, the only solution is a triple bypass. Overkill is overkill no matter what the medical condition.

yes circumcision was the only solution. I understand a dorsal slit was not warranted. Steroidal cremes would potentially make it worse, delaying healing and slowing the bodys natural immune response. Steroids would have helped the inflammation but could have made the infection worse. We offered conservative treatment and the infection was not responding to some pretty heavy antibiotics, all options were exhausted but people were more in interest in preventing this kid from going septic (due to the kidney damage) than worrying about his foreskin. The kid actually said he wanted circumcision

and just to clarify no one would receive triple bypass for HTN since it makes no sense and wouldnt respond since its a compltely different etiology.....your example would make more sense if you said someone with BP 140/90 and the doc prescribed meds without trying diet and change in lifestyle first

 

[chico8]

yes circumcision was the only solution. I understand a dorsal slit was not warranted. Steroidal cremes would potentially make it worse, delaying healing and slowing the bodys natural immune response. Steroids would have helped the inflammation but could have made the infection worse. We offered conservative treatment and the infection was not responding to some pretty heavy antibiotics, all options were exhausted but people were more in interest in preventing this kid from going septic (due to the kidney damage) than worrying about his foreskin. The kid actually said he wanted circumcision

and just to clarify no one would receive triple bypass for HTN since it makes no sense and wouldnt respond since its a compltely different etiology.....your example would make more sense if you said someone with BP 140/90 and the doc prescribed meds without trying diet and change in lifestyle first

I wonder if your frank discussions of a patient's medical issues in any way violates the Medical Privacy Act? In this day and age I would be extremely cautious in posting someone's medical issues on the internet when you are a care provider. Just a word of caution.

However, we have no way of verifying what it is that you say. If, of course could all be made up. Since you've declined to state what the "conservative" treatment was and what antibiotics he was prescribed and why a dorsal slit was not appropriate, we have no way of being able to approach another physician to verify what you say.

Once again, you've avoided the point of my statement on HBP/bypass. Ignorance and a culture of cutting and physicians doing all they can to line their wallets means that sometimes the least invasive treatment is the last to be considered. The preservation of healthy tissue should be foremost in physicians minds but in the US that is not often the case.

 

[Snozzle]

how the people read the post and came to the conclusion that I said foreskin causes diabetes demonstrates an inability to read.

It was you who brought in a 30year-old with type 2 diabetes, without warning. What else were we to think? It is you who has introduced scenarios of rare medical conditions where circumcision may indeed be a last resort. This has nothing to do with cutting a healthy part of the penis off every male baby.

I am no foreskin expert but then again who is.

Having one helps.

 

[baseball99]

It was you who brought in a 30year-old with type 2 diabetes, without warning. What else were we to think? It is you who has introduced scenarios of rare medical conditions where circumcision may indeed be a last resort. This has nothing to do with cutting a healthy part of the penis off every male baby.


Having one helps.

i'll be sure to tell all my obgyn friends they cant be experts in their field bc they dont have a vagina

 

[nystrongstroke2]

I'm uncut and happy as hell that i'm not.

coming up was a lil ruff i thought every female that came in contact with my dick would run--but 98% of the chicks that i been with couldnt tell.

 

[CURVEDANDTHICKK]

OK I give up. You people are so obsessed and insane that you actually say that you know very few people who have their kids best interest in mind. WOW. Thats kind of sad. By the way how many of you have kids? 'Cause if you don't have kids then you have no idea what it's like to be a parent. It is the hardest most thankless job on earth. Especially when people who know nothing about you or your family think they can judge you.

Oh and Dr. Rock, if my boys are being mocked for 10+ years about their penis I'm more concered about all these strange people seeing their dicks than the mocking. They are called private parts for a reason. And we live in the United States so the kids with "funny-looking dicks" as you say are the intact kids.

I know all the anti-circ crazys are going to rip me to shreds but oh well what can I do. I know, I'm going to go play X-Box with my mutilated, psychologically scarred, unloved sons. I'm such a bad Daddy.

 

[baseball99]

I wonder if your frank discussions of a patient's medical issues in any way violates the Medical Privacy Act? In this day and age I would be extremely cautious in posting someone's medical issues on the internet when you are a care provider. Just a word of caution.

However, we have no way of verifying what it is that you say. If, of course could all be made up. Since you've declined to state what the "conservative" treatment was and what antibiotics he was prescribed and why a dorsal slit was not appropriate, we have no way of being able to approach another physician to verify what you say.

Once again, you've avoided the point of my statement on HBP/bypass. Ignorance and a culture of cutting and physicians doing all they can to line their wallets means that sometimes the least invasive treatment is the last to be considered. The preservation of healthy tissue should be foremost in physicians minds but in the US that is not often the case.

as long as you dont give any identifying data such as name or medical record number you are clear from medical privacy acts. Also, i have not mentioned what part of the country i am in or the hospital so i far exceed any requirements.

tx was a mixture of topical antibiotics and systemic antibiotics.....this is considered the "conservative" treatment since the aggressive treatment is therapy. When ultrasound and ct results showed grade uretovesicular junction reflux the kid was goin to surgery for that. Broad spectrum antibiotics which cover pretty much everything except some pretty uncommon bugs were tried, white cell count continued to increase, patient spiked a fever. We were concerned for potential sepsis and altered the antibiotics to something stronger.....now we were basically trying to kill an ant with a machine gun. Cultures came back and the original antibiotics we were using should have been killin the bug. It wasn't. To be honest I dont know why "dorsal slit" was not done. It would be my guess because the entire foreskin was infected and the last thing you want is to leave an infected surgical site. I'm not a urolgist and didnt do the procedure but that would be the most logical answer.

 

[baseball99]

UTIs also occur in cut boys and men, anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves. There

UTI are more common in early life in males than females. After 1 year of age the incidence for boys drops significantly. During the first year the numbers between circumcised and uncircumcised UTI is not statistically significant. After 1 year of age, it is almost exclusively in uncircumcised.

UTI in older boys and adults is relatively uncommon. But when it does occur it is almost exclusively in uncircumcised. The only exceptions are congenital anomalies, which are even more rare.
http://adc.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/abstract/90/8/853

 

[Snozzle]

Baseball says "I'm not a foreskin expert, but then, who is?"

I say "Having one helps" and he replies to a wild extrapolation of that:

i'll be sure to tell all my obgyn friends they cant be experts in their field bc they dont have a vagina

I think this is called a straw man argument. He does this a lot.

Actually of course, I bet ownership of the equipment in question DOES often (notice, baseball, I didn't say always) make women much better obgyns than men.

 

[Snozzle]

I'm uncut and happy as hell that i'm not.

coming up was a lil ruff i thought every female that came in contact with my dick would run--but 98% of the chicks that i been with couldnt tell.

Some can

 

[xs4skin]

I am uncut and and am extremley happy with that. Whats with all this fuss about cleanliness - an uncut cock is no different to any other body part, it just needs to be washed. Would you cut off your armpits just cos there might be an odour problem - no you just was under your arms!

 

[B_dxjnorto]

I know all the anti-circ crazys are going to rip me to shreds but oh well what can I do.

Who are the crazys? We are talking about leaving babies in their naturally whole state and that's a provocative point?

Just like breathing clean air finally has legal backing in restaurants and public places, so too one day will the right to unimpeded sexual development be legally protected for males as it is for females.

I realize this is a very provocative issue for the majority of U.S. men right now, but put away your gloves and open your mind. Get on the right side.

 

[baseball99]

Baseball says "I'm not a foreskin expert, but then, who is?"

I say "Having one helps" and he replies to a wild extrapolation of that:



I think this is called a straw man argument. He does this a lot.

Actually of course, I bet ownership of the equipment in question DOES often (notice, baseball, I didn't say always) make women much better obgyns than men.

My point was who really can claim to be a foreskin expert. Just because you make it a forefront of your life and have read the internet and talked about it on message boards does not make you an expert. There are a lot of areas of medicine i am not an expert in. There are several areas where I am an expert. Any doctor, nurse, etc who claims to be an expert in everything is lying. My point was you basically insinuated that there is no way i could know stuff about foreskin bc i dont have mine and I was replying with then all the male OBGYNs must not know anything about the vagina, births, etc. A woman may be able to be more empathetic but she does not necessarily know more. So you might be more empathetic with people with foreskin but you in no way know more

 

[chico8]

My point was you basically insinuated that there is no way i could know stuff about foreskin bc i dont have mine

And that is absolutely correct when it comes to the amount of feeling that the foreskin provides during sex. You'll never know what it's like to have a moist foreskin or one that glides over your glans or the joy you get when your intact frenulum is stimulated. Therefore, your inability to "feel" what an intact man has means that to you and many other doctors that have been cut, a foreskin is little more than a flap of skin that is easily cut off. You've given little or no indication that you feel the foreskin is a major source of pleasure for men so it stands to reason that your lack of a foreskin is the reason.

 

[baseball99]

And that is absolutely correct when it comes to the amount of feeling that the foreskin provides during sex. You'll never know what it's like to have a moist foreskin or one that glides over your glans or the joy you get when your intact frenulum is stimulated. Therefore, your inability to "feel" what an intact man has means that to you and many other doctors that have been cut, a foreskin is little more than a flap of skin that is easily cut off. You've given little or no indication that you feel the foreskin is a major source of pleasure for men so it stands to reason that your lack of a foreskin is the reason.

this is ridiculous. im sorry i have way too many other important things in my life than to keep goin at this
also, since youre an expert on feeling.....please please explain to me theory of pain threshold. Also how it applies to fine touch and 2 point discrimination. You do understand that nerve excitability is genetic. This is why some people will respond to pain at very low levels yet other people take a much higher level of the painful stimulation before they feel the pain. Do you just think for one second that this might possibly just relate to the feelings on the head of the penis? An intact foreskin MAY NOT mean more sensation.