Harper to be replaced as PM?

[shadow28]

Hey,

Just wondering what my fellow Canucks think of the crazy upheaval in Ottawa the last few days... it's so rare that anything interesting happens in Canadian politics, but lately it's been an embarrassment of riches!! I grew up in Ottawa and am v glad to be far away from it now...

For those of you not Canadian - we may be getting a new Prime Minister through a rarely (never)-used procedure - a vote of non-confidence in the House of Commons and the replacement of the minority Conservatives with a coalition of left and centre-left parties. Directly, with no new election. All because our current PM is kind of a jerk.

IMO the government is going to fall - or at least that's the way it looks at this precise moment - but things are changing quickly. From here on the east coast, it looks like Stephen Harper is going to get the comeuppance he so very richly deserves. An early Christmas present for most Canadians... His arrogance seems to be leading to his downfall.

Your thoughts?

 

[rob_just_rob]

Push rats into a corner, and they'll fight back. The fiscal measures introduced would basically hamstring the other parties in any future elections. So, they'd have to band together to fight that measure, alone.

Harper and co. are busily backing down from a lot of the measures in question simply because they are belatedly realizing this.

 

[tripod]

I think that this would be GREAT fucking news.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Yeah, the stupid move was the plan to take away the funding of political parties.
No matter how much they wrap their plans in 'principle,' this was the single move that drove the Opposition parties to coalesce.
It was a stupid and very arrogant move on Harper's part. His main political adviser told him not to go this route, as did a number of Cabinet members.
But Harper's instinct for the jugular led him to blunder forward, at the cost, in all likelihood, of his leadership of the country and his place in history.
I have had a grudging respect for the man, but I have never liked him.
He is mean and far too partisan.
Conservatives dislike his abandonment of most of his long-declared conservative principles.
Since I'm no conservative, these retreats toward the centre made him more palatable to me.
But I never trusted him. Long before he became leader of the Conservative Party, he was saying, "Give us five years and you won't recognize this country."
Problem is, the country never asked for a plastic surgeon as prime minister.
I predict he'll be gone before Christmas.

 

[rob_just_rob]

I can't see the G-G calling another election if Harper asks for one - after all, we just had one.

The interesting question at this point - assuming Harper doesn't cave on the campaign funding and economic stimulus points that have brought us to where we are now - is who will be the coalition PM?

 

[38383]

I do believe that Dion would stand, at least for a little while. Rae and Ignatieff said they will not try to take the reins until the new Liberal leadership convention was completed. Or maybe the man with the mustache would finally get his chance? Although very, very unlikely.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

I can't see the G-G calling another election if Harper asks for one - after all, we just had one.

The interesting question at this point - assuming Harper doesn't cave on the campaign funding and economic stimulus points that have brought us to where we are now - is who will be the coalition PM?

Well, it's already settled that Stephane Dion will be PM until the Liberals crown a new leader in May ... (and I'm betting that Michael Ignatieff will be the winner).
The electorate does not elect a government in a parliamentary system.
Strictly speaking, it elects a parliament.
And Parliament chooses a prime minister.
Unless something happens in the opposition's ranks, Dion will have support from the Liberals, of course ... but also from the NDP and the Bloc Quebecois.
This will give him a majority.
And while Canada has had very few coalition governments ... only one formal one, Borden's Unity Government during the First World War ... they are fairly common in parliamentary systems around the world.

Given how recent the last election was, like you, I don't see how the Governor General can call an election without first seeing if another leader can assemble majority support in Parliament.
And just now, it looks like Dion has that support in the bag.

 

[vince]

Oh please. Not Bob Rae as PM. please please please.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Oh please. Not Bob Rae as PM. please please please.

Only if he wins the Liberal leadership.
But you know, he's a reformed man.
Not a socialist at all now.
And damn good political skills.
(And you have to remember, he was a bust as Ontario premier because he tried to pump a failing economy ... which is the exact nostrum that everyone but everyone is now pushing on Barack Obama and most leaders of the advanced industrial nations around the world.)
I have a fractional preference for him over Ignatieff.
So shoot me, Vince.
Shoot me.

 

[canuck_pa]

I think we had a coalition government under Mackenzie-King during the second world war, but not sure.

All very interesting. Although I'm not a Harper fan I'm not sure I want to see a coalition. I haven't seen any strong leadership in any of the parties that I would feel confident getting us out of the current situation. Better the devil you know.

 

[vince]

I'd love to shoot in your general direction Senor. :wink:

I've been out of the country for 7 years so maybe he has changed his spots. But I lived through Glen Clark and the NDP in BC in the late 90's and they where soooo bad, Campbell and the Socred/Liberals are still in power. uck.

It put me off the NDP and ex-NDPers forever.

Also, another one I cannot stand is that sanctimonious Know-it-All Jack Layton. Even my left-wing university going daughter thinks he's a fool. I think I'd rather see Harper stay than have that ass in government.

OK shoot me back...

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

I think we had a coalition government under Mackenzie-King during the second world war, but not sure.

No, canuck ... King's Liberals were the lone governing party.

All very interesting. Although I'm not a Harper fan I'm not sure I want to see a coalition. I haven't seen any strong leadership in any of the parties that I would feel confident getting us out of the current situation. Better the devil you know.

There's lots to worry about.
The Liberal prime minister, whoever he turns out to be after his selection in May, will be pulled from the Left by the NDP and might pursue inflationary policies where a huge increase in debt is certain occur even without NDP pressure.
And anyone would have to say that the support of the Bloc Quebecois, a separatist party, is in principle something that you would read about in The Onion.
I think you like the present devil, Harper, a bit more than I do.
I'm actually pretty pleased about this recent turn of events ... though I admit it could all turn sour fast.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

I'd love to shoot in your general direction Senor. :wink:

Promises, promises.

I've been out of the country for 7 years so maybe he has changed his spots. But I lived through Glen Clark and the NDP in BC in the late 90's and they where soooo bad, Campbell and the Socred/Liberals are still in power. uck.
It put me off the NDP and ex-NDPers forever.

Rae has completely changed his spots.
I mean, 15 years ago, wouldn't you have laughed if anyone every suggested that he would ever try to become a power in the federal Liberal Party ... and that the Libs would seriously consider having him?
But he did, and they do.

Also, another one I cannot stand is that sanctimonious Know-it-All Jack Layton. Even my left-wing university going daughter thinks he's a fool. I think I'd rather see Harper stay than have that ass in government.

He's lost that slick used car salesman grin, Vince.
Hmmm. Well, let's say he doesn't follow it into rooms any more.
Somehow I find him hard to take seriously.
But I can't give you a good reason.
I think he's very sincere ... but between you and me, I'm personally much more impressed by Gilles Duceppe, of all people ... and he's one of the long-term separatists.
Thoroughly compromised, inevitably, by his 18-year residence in the Parliament of the country he wants to eviscerate.

OK shoot me back...

Oh, I'd rather you shoot.:wink:

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

Oh please. Not Bob Rae as PM. please please please.

I couldn't agree more. I am trying to figure out what woodland critter he is. I've narrowed it down to either a chipmunk or a weasel.

Only if he wins the Liberal leadership.
But you know, he's a reformed man.
Not a socialist at all now.
And damn good political skills.
(And you have to remember, he was a bust as Ontario premier because he tried to pump a failing economy ...

So that's his party of the month. Rae couldn't even run a province. I can't believe that he's even a contender. We need reform, but not Alberta Reform. That's the mess that Harpers Reformers... er.. Tories are in now. They are just too far down the right wing that they've isolated themselves. The election debates were supposed to be round table discussions, but they were basically a Harper gang bang.

Well, it's already settled that Stephane Dion will be PM until the Liberals crown a new leader in May ... (and I'm betting that Michael Ignatieff will be the winner).
The electorate does not elect a government in a parliamentary system.
Strictly speaking, it elects a parliament.
And Parliament chooses a prime minister.
Unless something happens in the opposition's ranks, Dion will have support from the Liberals, of course ... but also from the NDP and the Bloc Quebecois.
This will give him a majority.

Why can't Dion stay on as party leader? He's earned the title. Let him keep it, even if it makes him the PM.

Given how recent the last election was, like you, I don't see how the Governor General can call an election without first seeing if another leader can assemble majority support in Parliament.
And just now, it looks like Dion has that support in the bag.

I have to admit that I find all of this very exciting. I only wish that the Green party can get a bigger piece of the pie. I wanted to vote NDP, but I voted Grit for fear or a majority government. I was scolded for doing that by a stern Irish lady in a church in front of Exwhysee. She was right, though.

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

Also, another one I cannot stand is that sanctimonious Know-it-All Jack Layton. Even my left-wing university going daughter thinks he's a fool. I think I'd rather see Harper stay than have that ass in government.

I love the platform (especially pharmacare), but hate the man. He's a tool. I've met him twice and I still think he's a tool. A little guy with a big mouth.

Rubi, I'm sure that you've met a few of these players also.... or even worked with one?

 

[vince]

I don't like this at all. This is not the time for Canada to be having a weak government. With the economic mess, a new admin coming in Washington, the war in Afghanistan ongoing... I'm worried.

The thought of NDPers getting their hands in the cookie jar is going to give me a bad night's sleep tonight! :frown:

I'm going to have to suspend my holiday and go to Ottawa to sort this out!

 

[rob_just_rob]

ISo that's his party of the month. Rae couldn't even run a province.

I'm no Rae fan, but the argument that he's disqualified to lead the country based on what he believed/did 15 years ago gets VERY interesting when you turn it around on the Reform party guys and start looking at what they believed 15 years ago... :wink: "Back of the shop", anyone? :biggrin1:

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Why can't Dion stay on as party leader? He's earned the title. Let him keep it, even if it makes him the PM.

Because he's just an earnest lil' dildo, that's why. Clear?

I have to admit that I find all of this very exciting. I only wish that the Green party can get a bigger piece of the pie. I wanted to vote NDP, but I voted Grit for fear or a majority government. I was scolded for doing that by a stern Irish lady in a church in front of Exwhysee. She was right, though.

Dion, I think, has mentioned that he will be listening to her counsel ... but not in a formal way, as a fellow member of the coalition.

I love the platform (especially pharmacare), but hate [Jack Layton]. He's a tool. I've met him twice and I still think he's a tool. A little guy with a big mouth.

Forgive me, but like his political brothers, he suffers from a bit too much rectitude.
Shake paw on that?

Rubi, I'm sure that you've met a few of these players also.... or even worked with one?

Tales for a Saturday's tipple.

 

[Scrufuss]

Wait a sec.. is this the same guy who just got elected a 4th time in 6 years? (I saw his acceptance speech, he said this is his 4th time in 6 years = 1.5 year terms. Just when you get settled, you have to start campaigning again) And all he has to be is a jerk to get what we call impeached?

 

[vince]

Wait a sec.. is this the same guy who just got elected a 4th time in 6 years? (I saw his acceptance speech, he said this is his 4th time in 6 years = 1.5 year terms. Just when you get settled, you have to start campaigning again) And all he has to be is a jerk to get what we call impeached?

You know the first line in your avatar?.. It's true. :wink: